Fractures

[Kaiwaz]

Okay, so Fractures was on SF last night. This was the FIRST new episode I had ever seen (that is, the first episode I saw on an original airdate). So I did not get a lot of the significance the first time.

The Rock-Paper-Scissors at the end, how do you all read that?
I am unwavering in my conviction that Kemper & Co meant for it to be ambiguous... here are a few POSSIBLE interpretations:

-Dead Crichton wins. First difference between them, he "gets to be" the real Crichton, even though they are both "equal and original". That is the first and most obvious way of reading it.

-Crichton Completed. I've heard several people say Crichton had to die because he got everything he wanted in life: Scorpy out of his head, Aeryn, and to be a real hero. He had to die. The end of fractures is the end of the other Crichton's run of "getting what he wants", even though he is already dead he also gets to beat the other Crichton.

-Change in Character. The other thing I could think of is that the two Crichtons are both still "equal and original" they are divergences from each other. The events they experienced shaped them differently, even though it was only a short period. The fact that dead Crichton actually wins the rock paper scissors game has less to do with his winning than it does with the fact that they have grown different from each other, into their own people.

I don't think any of these is the "whole" truth, but they are all certainly possibilities (and there are "infinite possibilities" right?)

[RescueFarscape]

I thought they both threw scissors; it was a draw.:confused:

[Kaiwaz]

It could be my mistake entirely... but I'm pretty sure that T-Crichton throws Rock (as in "and a hard place"?).

Anybody got it on tape or mpeg and can check it?

[MoyaChick]

Originally posted by Kaiwaz
It could be my mistake entirely... but I'm pretty sure that T-Crichton throws Rock (as in "and a hard place"?).

Anybody got it on tape or mpeg and can check it?

Does this help....


edited to add....

Argh! Frell! Where's my attachment gone!

[MoyaChick]

Okay, second attempt.

[blueassbitch]

It was a tie. I think they were trying to emphasise again that both Crichtons were equal, that neither one was a clone. Essentially the same person who were on different paths. It was also important for Aeryn to see this and come to that conclusion.

[Kaiwaz]

Yes... it does. I'd originally THOUGHT it had been a tie. Actually, today I was rewatching another ep on that TV and I was like "You know, I can't see ANYTHING on this screen". LOL
It was the brightness of course... and looking at that picture I can tell those 2 fingers are exactly what I wouldn't have been able to see.

<sigh of relief>

[jondbrien]

Aeryn absolutely needed to see that in order to make sense of it all. She realized that although Crichton-Green is not Crichton-Black, he is still the same man she love's. By being the first one to volunteer to go to the command carrier, Aeryn proves her alligence to Crichton no matter what.

[Nine]

They may have been identical instances of the same person at one point in time – but from the moment they separated, their unique experiences and memories differentiated the two Johns. Having them “throw” something different from one another would have been a subtle yet powerful expression of this.

I’m wrong though – looks like they both chose mirror image responses(scissors). They are the same man – same heart, same soul, same sense of duty and responsibility to safeguard wormhole technology. They love the same woman. I agree that Aeryn had to overhear the conversation and come to this realization.

So many layers to Farscape – gotta love it.

[Pengu]

I still think it's kinda obvious who won...
TCrichton got all he want and a became a true hero and the Crichton Aeryn loved.

Fate played it so MCrichton will live but knowing that he missed "that dance" and that she loved the other Crichton.
He lost in my eyes since the Crichton she loves is dead and the remaining one is just a copy who she has shared nothing with...

[Nicola]

Originally posted by Pengu
I still think it's kinda obvious who won...
TCrichton got all he want and a became a true hero and the Crichton Aeryn loved.

Fate played it so MCrichton will live but knowing that he missed "that dance" and that she loved the other Crichton.
He lost in my eyes since the Crichton she loves is dead and the remaining one is just a copy who she has shared nothing with...

Watch season 4.

[The Keeper]

hey all. I just watched Fractures about 5 minutes ago, they aired it finally on NBN and this is gonna sound completly off topic of what this thread has previously been talkin about but I think that this particular eppy was sad and that they whole time watchin it u get this kinda feelin that everything is about to come to a big conclusion and more really sad stuff and goodbyes is gonna happen before the end of the season.

I havent seen any eps after this ep but i do have a fair idea of what happens in the season 3 final (damn those farscape magazines and websites with episode guides...lol) so it does kinda seem like from this episode that everything is starting to build up to a big sad ending, where everyone splits up again.

Oh and btw i reckon that the whole scizzors, paper, rock tie thing was done to show that both crichtons are one in the same and have always been equal in every sense-and i think Aeryn needed to see that for herself....

[Frunium Slip]

Yeah a tie, but Kaiwaz, I really liked your explanations of why T-John could have one, and yeah, layers...

[kire]

Oh wow I just watched this episode, and like others totally thought that TChrichton threw a rock to MChrichton's scissors!

Thanks for the screenshot to clear that up for me! I was totally worried about the consequences, heh.

[Kaiwaz]

Okay, just want to say that (months later) I watched Fractures again... brightness up etc. And I could SWEAR that the "scissors" thrown by Crichton are NOT thrown by Browder. It really looks like a "halo effect", like two little scissor arms in the hologram thing. Like they were put in during post production. Not that that means anything, except that I wasn't TOTALLY insane when I saw what I thought I saw.

[Scaping-n-Shipping]

Originally posted by Pengu
I still think it's kinda obvious who won...
TCrichton got all he want and a became a true hero and the Crichton Aeryn loved.

Fate played it so MCrichton will live but knowing that he missed "that dance" and that she loved the other Crichton.
He lost in my eyes since the Crichton she loves is dead and the remaining one is just a copy who she has shared nothing with...

TCrichton got what was supposed to be the dream, but ended up dead. MCrichton knows he has the chance to have the real dream, alive. I'd hardly call him the loser in any sense of the word. And "shared nothing"?? Oh dear, there were legions of things she shared with MCrichton, which of course she also shared with TCrichton.

MCrichton knows he missed "the dance" as you call it, between TCrichton and Aeryn, but whatever that dance was, it wouldn't necessarily be the same dance he'd have had with her - the instant the two Johns became separate, they became different people in a lot of ways (although fundamentally the same). Who's to say that if there had been no twinning that Aeryn would have had the same relationship with the single John? The circumstances would have been vastly different and the things that finally brought the two of them together might not have happened at all. Just Aeryn on Talyn was someone different - there were things she did apart from Moya that I couldn't have seen her doing if she'd stayed behind.

I think in the end (and you'll have to watch ALL of Season 4 to get this part), I always thought Aeryn needed to be who she was with TCrichton (and c'mon, you had to see how different she was) in order to free up a part of herself that MCrichton, back aboard Moya with the others in her old world, needed. Who she was with TC, alone with Crais and John, was not the same woman MC would have been with anyway because by the time she made it back to him, HE was different because of what he'd been through while she was gone. In the end, the two C's were different and I hope the PTB did it deliberately, because to me, it feels like MC is more authentic to the original character than TC ended up being. Maybe if I watch it again, it'll look different, but having the perspective of the rest of the series so far, I can't see her being who she was with TC forever. He lost some of his edge and she lost all of hers.

Aeryn did need to see the "no winners" result of the rock/paper/scissors game if only to see that neither John "deserved" her more than the other; turning TC into some kind of holy martyr was a disservice to both men - in the end, both TC and MC were just....John. She had to see that to be able to go back to the beginning and find her relationship with MC again, for both of their sakes'. Her ultimate relationship with TC had more to do with the person she became than the person he was - he was the same, fundamentally. It was who Aeryn freed herself to be that matured her enough to accept what John's ALWAYS had to offer her.

And I've just used more " marks than in any other post, lol.

[zen98034]

Hi all,
Looks like I will be reviving a fairly long dead tread.

I just saw fractures (and a few other episodes) last night. Gotta love Netflix.

Anyway I enjoyed reading everybody else’s discussion on this episode and wanted to add something of my own that has not been discussed yet.

One thing that really struck me in this episode is how quickly they set about rescuing Rigel. No discussion about "Do we really want to rescue the slug?" or anything. Just jumping straight into action to rescue a crewmate. Don't think I have ever been more proud of the crew. I think Rigel was a little surprised himself.

Now I just have to wait for Netflix to send me the next disk. Going to be buying the seasons after I have watched them all with Netflix. If I got them all now I would never leave myself time for anything else. Kinda like how Netflix is forcing me to pace myself.

I had watched Farscape before but never got to watch it consistently and only got to see them very much out of order. Kinda wish I never had and just started fresh with the DVD's. Oh well.

Been visiting this board for a little while now and have enjoyed reading everybody else’s takes on the various episodes. Will see if I can't add a bit to the discussions.

Mitch

[buckwheet the 16th]

Of course they would save Rygel!

He has been a pain in eema sometimes but he is handy with negotiations since he is somewhat non-thretening it allows him certian freedoms with people they need to make deals with.

Although in most of the shows they depict him as John's punching bag (since he is the only one on Moya John can physically beat up) I think the crew knows he's is a useful part of "the family" (and he proves it in the very next episode).

[zen98034]

I had no doubt they would want to save him. But I expected somebody to say something (joke or whatever).
Guess I was just proud of how seriously they took it.

Also another thing I that I did not mention before. Crais (somewhat begrudgingly) volunteering after Aeryn did. Want to like the guy but still suspicious of him.

Can't wait to see how it all goes.

Mitch

[Lee in Limbo]

Well, this is a nicely dead thread, but I noticed that it's also pretty single-minded. I loved the symmetry and significance of the paper-rock-scissors throw myself, but that wasn't the whole of the story for me.

You see, it was my first episode of Farscape, ever.

Now, conventional wisdom dictates that anything in the third or fourth seasons is so thoroughly dipped in the continuity of the series that it's virtually impenetrable to new viewers. I can see how that's so. I mean, I really liked Fractures when my buddy showed it to me, but without the context of the previous two-and-a-half seasons, it didn't have as much impact as it did later on when I saw it again in context.

Now, the things that stayed with me from that episode were the fact that:

You could tell there was tension between Crais and Crichton, but a sort of implied if uncomfortable alliance. This was of course without ever having seen or heard of their antagonistic relationship in the first season. It was implied by the way they looked at each other that these guys had history, and not all of it good.

You could tell that there was something seriously wrong with John's relationship to Aeryn. That bit where she walks by, the bit that Ben has referenced in interviews as the scene that always gets him in the gut... yeah, you could feel it from the first time off. You were just waiting for Crais to let John in on the problem. That issue wasn't going to go away quickly.

You could tell that there was an interesting bit of history to the Nebari culture that would be interesting to explore (which hindsight has proven, with two other Nebari-centric episodes in the series that still leave room for more). The character of Chiana didn't immediately grab my attention, since she was particularly childish in that episode, but I learned to appreciate her better on the subsequent viewing. That insatiable curiosity (and lust) of hers made that part of the story quite amusing, in retrospect.

And you couldn't help but notice that the little puppets (Rygel and his new girlfriend) were nasty individuals (hindsight again proving that, though Rygel had his redeeming moments throughout the series, he never really stopped being an irrascible little jerk). It's still amusing to think that Rygel could be one-upped by one of his own species, thus proving that Rygel's nasty personality is probably not much of an aberration.

Frankly, it was clear to me that, even if I didn't understand half of what had just happened, there was definitely a superior level of writing going on in this series, and that my previous commitment to eventually sit down and watch the series would be well rewarded (hindsight has confirmed that).

So, while Fractures isn't my most favourite episode in the series or even the season, it retains a special importance to me, in that it showed me what to expect without putting me off, and left me with lots of the kinds of questions I love to ask.