Save Sikozu's Tattered Reputation

[ScorpSik]

Lordy....judging by the 'eeeevilest Moyan' thread, I'll have to post this *here* as well!!! Gawd she does need help...
OK, basically, this is a nice safe place for Sikozu fans to gather ,and moan collectively about her harsh + unfair treatment at the hands of her ungrateful crewmates....
We can all rejoice in the fact that she is responsible - also Scorpy, of course - for saving everyone else countless times.
This is a haven for those who love Sikozu and Scorpius. Fans of the slighted Jool are also welcome.
Feel no shame here....
*sigh, everywhere I've posted has needed one of these....*

[Darth Buddha]

Sikozu is slighted.

True, we have little reason to tust her, but Just because you don't trust her, doesn't make her evil.

Hell, for all the world, she's like a precocious child, suddenly dealing with complicated adults.... keep treating her like dren and maybe she WILL turn out evil (they've already driven her into the arms of Scorpy-sue, and that can't be good!).

[ScorpSik]

Now, now....we must *embrace* Scorpy... he's a true hero.

[Darth Buddha]

Yeah, he's on the road to redemption, but he's still bent.

I'd fear for any child who wound up in his arms.

Actually, I'd similarly fear for any woman under the age of, oh, 25, who took a likiing to me. But then, I don't date youngsters for that very reason.

ALTHOUGH Raillee Hill is the big 30 I believe, Sikozu seems like a know-it-all teen. A relationship with Scorpy could teach her the wrong things, or at least teach her the hard way.

After all, he's a product of a dysfunctional family or two himself!

[ScorpSik]

I think they've gort a beautiful relationship - trusting, tender ,...honest...I'm not sure.... but what a great pair.
I blindly can't see any flaws in what they have...:whip:

[generic_screenname]

I'm with you, Scorpsik!

[Sawyer's Miller]

Question concerning something said by Sikozu from "We're so screwed" Trilogy of Season 4. So if you haven't seen it, skip this!






















I think this was in the episode "La Bomba", the bit when Sikozu makes her eyeball flip around. She then asks the guy she was talking to "How many other biloids are on the station?" This could mean that the Sikozu on Katratzi is a biloid, and then I have to ask - how long has the particular Sikozu been a biloid? Was she swapped when Aeryn was swapped, or has she been one since "Crichton Kicks"?

[Roland]

ScorpSik! mayby you should put a PG13 tag on your avatar!?

Bing on the bondage.... :whip: :D

[ScorpSik]

:rollin: :whip:

Sikozu wasn't replaced by a bioloid... she was genetically engineered... I imagine her foetal DNA was altered + she was specially 'grown' to bring down the Scarrans. When Scorpy scanned Sikozu in UR, he is confirming her bioloid status (remember he can sense different energy sigs)...I think that in WWL, his first instinct was bioloid - perhaps he was even aware of the resistance movement - and this could be one of the main reasons for saving her life...

[||Scorpius||]

Sikozu *is* a bioloid. A full-on, created being. I totally think so; and I have my reasons outside the evidence of the episodes; but even without that, I think it is clear that she didn't tell the Moyans the whole truth. She is an artificial lifeform.

I have thought how that must have made Scorpius feel that they had more than their opposition to the Scarrans in common. We don't know who made Sikozu, but she's not the only bioloid the Kalish have working against the Scarrans. Maybe the Scarrans made her originally, and she turned against them. Was there a Sikozu original? Intriguing to speculate.
But the both of them were created as weapons to be used *by* the Scarrans...and both of them became weapons *against* the Scarrans.

Sikozu has not done anything to warrant her being called "Evilest Moyan", except be kind to Scorpius. I guess that's enough of a reason for the majority. *rolls eyes* Probably the fact that she chose Scorpius over Crichton, or looks alien, or isn't a soft little submissive thing is enough reason for some to consign her to Evilest status.

I must say that among the likes of the ill-informed and precipitously arrogant terrorist and mass murderer John Crichton; Dominar Rygel XVI, who we know is capable of betraying his closest friends, putting heads on stakes and ruling several billions *by any means necessary*, not to even mention breaking coolant rods for no reason but sadism (which was really mean :P), etc; the ex-PK Aeryn Sun, who was capable of betraying her own lover to death for personal advancement, participating in the killing of a helpless pilot, mercilessly torturing her kitty-whipped boyfriend, and multiple terrorist acts; Chiana, who is capable of killing in, shall we say, less than humane ways, sleeping with her betrothed's son just to make a point, amongst other acts of betrayal; Pilot, who we know was willing to do *anything* to become a Pilot, even participate with PKs in the removal of Moya's first Pilot; or D'argo, who we know beat his wife on at least a few occasions and who, instead of just killing his wife's murderer, left him alive to suffer a worse fate than death...
Sikozu seems quite the innocent.

And let us not forget that except for Constellation of Doubt and Unrealised Reality, either Sikozu, Scorpius, or the both of them together helped save the lives of the Moyans in *every single other episode of season four.*
There's a record for you.
Yet, both are considered "Evil".
Yeah right.
Strange how the Moyans can forgive each other absolutely *anything*, but Scorpy and Sikozu can never seem to redeem themselves enough--even if they save the Moyan's lives multiple times.

The Moyans made themselves look very bad in season four, with Crichton leading the way. My vote was for him as 'evilest Moyan'...hands down. He's killed more people, and more innocents, than anyone else we've seen on the show.

Scorpius has known Sikozu was a bioloid from very early on.... probably from the first time he ever looked at her. He sees energy signatures, after all, and that being a unique gift, it is doubtful that bioloid designers built 'energy signature fooling' systems into her.
He scans her behind her back in U.R...this, I think, to confirm what he already knew. And he doesn't care.
He's not a xenophobe, whatever else you might accuse him of.

I *hope* Sikozu is for real. I fear that if she does betray Scorpius, she'll really stab him to the heart. Scorpius, though cold at times (due to being treated with utmost coldness and brutality by others his entire life), still has an innocence that makes him vulnerable. Note how many times he has trusted Crichton, and how he's been hurt by his betrayals (Wolf in Sheep's Clothing, Hot to Katratzi/La Bomba). It's crazy how much he *wants* to trust JC.

He wants to trust Sikozu too. She has been good to him.
Scorpius is innocent of almost all good treatment. Of love. Of kindness. And Sikozu has been good and kind to him--and I think she loves him. She was there for him when he had nothing and no one; when he had nothing to offer her but himself. Who has ever shown him that sort of genuine affection or loyalty before?
Who ever treated him that well in his whole life?

Scorpius is capable of compassion; he even tried to teach Braca about it (Bone to be Wild). He is gentle with and considerate of Sikozu. He is concerned with her well-being (Twice Shy, Terra Firma, La Bomba, etc). I think he may be in love with her. Don't put it past him. As he experienced his first wormhole flight with the innocent wonder of a child (Wolf in Sheep's Clothing), so he experiences her kindness and tenderness with childlike wonder.

Look how innocent Sikozu seemed in Prefect Murder. She behaved in a...virginal manner. If she is an innocent, and she does seem very young in spite of her precocious genius, she and Scorpy are two of a kind. Brilliant, unique, alone, and innocent in many ways. I do not for one microt believe that Scorpius would harm her. He is protective towards women. Evidence? His whole TRIP is to avenge his Mother. He was very forgiving towards Natira, who we know tried to kill him. He rescued M'lee. He rescued Aeryn in Promises. He saved Chiana and the female tech from that idiot in Coup by Clam. He saved Sikozu as..quite possibly...a final act in What Was Lost II. He was extremely protective of Sikozu in Twice Shy, even under the influence of the Spider-lady's poison.

The relationship between Scorpius and Sikozu is refreshingly honest, so unlike the tired J/A ship that bogged down, dominated, marginalised the other characters, and mediocritised season four.
S/S5 see each other as they are. Has Crichton *ever* seen Aeryn as she is?
[my thanks to NeuralClone who has made these points so well before me].

All I can say is: "Sikozu, you had better not betray him."

[Darth Buddha]

While I can't go along with all of the extremes to which ||Scorpius|| takes available evidence, I do agree that there is something legitimate and naive in Scorpy's relationship with Sikozu.

I just hope she didn't gravitate toward him because he was the only one who'd have her (she never "chose" Scorpy over John -- John wasn't ever even willing to be her ally -- only Scorpy was).

I hope Scorpy isn't betrayed... he could lose all the progress he has made. He is still like a five year old who can't comprehend why people are holding some of his earlier bestial behavior against him, but he's making progress. I mean, he's been raised and bred in a fashion that should produce nothing short of a serial killer and he's already got some grasp of mercy, and some desire to have trust relationships (even though with people he's previously brutalized -- not a particularly rewarding place to start). If Sikozu betrays him, that could set him back. Setting back somebody who started with the disadvantages Scorpius did would be truly monstrous and unforgivable. So if Sikozu betrays or otherwise misuses Scorpius, THEN she'd get my vote for evilest Moyan.

[ScorpSik]

*rocks backwards and forwards...she won't betray him...she won't betray him*
*whimper*

BTW... Not sure if my earlier post was clear... I know Sikozu *is* a bioloid, nut she was not *replaced* by one.

llScorpiusll - :notworthy

[NeuralClone]

I just stumbled across a humour site which referred to Sikozu's "talent for treachery and backstabbing".

Say, what? :eek:

I'm trying to recall a moment when Sikozu "betrayed", let alone "backstabbed" anyone - unless you count her naive little deal with the Grudeks in "Crichton Kicks".

About Sikozu choosing Scorpius over the Moyans - apart from Scorpius' innate attractions, has anyone considered that the crew - Crichton in particular - was very different from when (for example) Chiana joined it? Chiana met a compassionate, rather naive man, who tried to help her, and sort out the rights and wrongs of the situation she was in, and made a place for her. Sikozu meets a hostile, embittered, crazy drunk, who while he doesn't try to drive her away, is at best passively hostile towards her. Is it any surprise she prefers an intelligent, controlled being who once saved her life?

[ScorpSik]

*ahem*


SIKOZU CAN WALK ON THE WALLS,
SHE DOESN'T EAT OFTEN AT ALL.
HER LIMBS REATTACH,
FOR HER, THERE'S NO MATCH
LUCKY GIRL, SHE'S GOT SCORPY BY THE BALLS!!!

*roars with laughter*

[Kyntio]

Personally I don't understand how anybody can love this show and hate one or more of the main characters (whether that is John, Aeryn, Scorpius, Sikozu, Jool or whomever) and therefore basically saying they don't really like the storyline. There is a reason for why the characters are who they are, they can't all be the good guys, how boring would that be?

Now I understand that who is good and who is bad is not always as black and white as some people make it out to be and it very much depends on one's POV but I believe that in the beginning the writers wanted us to think of Scorpius as evil and I loved him just as much then as I do now. He is brilliant as the bad guy! Then we started to see his side of the story and realise that maybe he's not so bad after all and everything became a lot more complex but I loved Scorpy either way.

When Sikozu was introduced I instantly thought WOW, she looks great and she can walk on walls, how cool is that! I never thought of her as evil but if she turned out to be I'd still think she's a cool character.

Just my 2cents worth.

[ScorpSik]

Yes kids... bioloids *are* your friend... love them, care for them, don't feed them more than 10 times a cycle... and don't let them anywhere NEAR the Sistine Chapel... honestly, those footprints are a bastard to clean!

[Void]

Umm, I don't know if any of you were paying attention on Bad Timing...but Scorpius KILLS Sikozu - he snapped her neck. So why are we giving homage to a dead character?

[ScorpSik]

SCORPIUS DID NOT KILL SIKOZU... IT WAS EROTIC ASPHYXIATION.
WHY WOULD HE KILL A WOMAN WHO HAD THE SAME GOAL AS HE... THE DESTRUCTION OF THE SCARRAN EMPIRE??
IF YOU BELIEVE SCORPIUS WOULD KILL HIS LOVER, PLEASE DON'T DARKEN THE DOORS OF THE SIKOZU SUPPORT GROUP

[ScorpSik]

Apologies... that sounds v.harsh...but have just seen Sikozu die twice in UR and am feeling a tad sensitive.....
There is no way he killed her. If you don't believe the above reasons, then think of it this way. Everything Scorpy does has a definate purpose. Nothing is a whim. What purpose is there in killing one who can aid your triumph??

[Void]

Scorpy is a double agent, and I don't truly believe he is out to eliminate the scarrans...I actually think he merely wants leverage and to dominate them in some way...not destroy them. Sikozu, on the other hand, wants to eliminate the entire Scarran race (Scorpy says this, but he's obviously lying or bending the truth in some way.)

Also, Wayne at ComicCon said he was very displeased with Scorpius' character in Season 4...until Bad Timing when he snaps Sikozu's neck. He said it, himself!!

[generic_screenname]

Also, Wayne at ComicCon said he was very displeased with Scorpius' character in Season 4...until Bad Timing when he snaps Sikozu's neck. He said it, himself!!

This is the first I've heard of this. Do you have a direct quote? In the meantime, I have a quote to share, from The Simpsons:

Young Homer: Zookeeper! Zookeeper! Those monkeys are killing each other!"
Zookeeper: (whispering) They're having sex.
Young Homer: Oh...

The point is things are not always what the seem. It may appear as though he is killing her, but if you remember a few scenes in earlier episodes where the two of them play a little...rough. There's also the part in LG&M when Scorpius was getting down and dirty with Natira that climaxed (pun intened) with Scorpy's cooling rod shooting out of his head.

I don't want to repreat what has already been said in this and numerous other threads about this topic, but look at it this way:
If the writers' intention truly was to have Scorpius kill Sikozu, the scene would have gone on longer. We would see Sikozu's lifeless body fall to the floor with Scorpy standing over it looking all evil and stuff. (Also, if she died, it would have been from asphyxiation, as he was choking her, not snapping her neck. I have the ep on video.) But that's not how the scene ended. It ended with them doing their kinky thang (for some reason, I imagine Al Green's "Let's Stay Together" playing in the background) as Braca looks on with a "if you hurt him, I'll kill you, bitch" look on his face.

[seattlescaper]

From the reports I read from Comicon, Wayne said that it only looked like he was choking Sikozu because of editing but that it was not shot as a murder scene.

As for him engaging in erotic choking, one question, do bioloids breathe?

[generic_screenname]

Originally posted by seattlescaper
From the reports I read from Comicon, Wayne said that it only looked like he was choking Sikozu because of editing but that it was not shot as a murder scene.

Bam! See, that's what I was saying. This whole silly debate was caused by poor editing. Not to slight the great people who make the show, but they are human and therefore fallible. If they had shown just a few more seconds of the scene, there would be no doubt as to what was going on.


As for breathing, I see her as a Kalish with biloid parts, a la The Six Million Dollar Man but others think she is a just a flat-out biloid. I don't buy that, because if she is, then she's a lot more advanced than the biloids we've seen so far.

[Zantar]

Just a comment does anyone think that Sikozu was treated so badly by the crew purely because she seemed to have such an affection for scorpy? I think because she tended to be closer to scorpy than the rest that may have been the reason why so many of them seemed to have a distaste for her.

[ScorpSik]

Actually, Wayne originally said it WAS erotic asphyxiation... he hadn't seen the final edit at the time. But a fan said to him it looked like he killed her, and they way it was edited, he said yeah, it did *look* like that.
*Takes pedant hat off*

[ScorpSik]

Zantar... she was beaten by Chiana, shouted at by Pilot, called a 'wh*re' by John and yelled at by Aeryn BEFORE she even got 'close' to Scorpy... *humpf* and they're supposed to be the 'heroes'... I think not....

[Zantar]

well Moya's crew does not seem to trust new friends. I think sikozu just came around at a very wrong time for them and they took alot out on her. + she was a bit arrogant about leviathans when she really didnt know what she was talking about. hence why pilot doesnt like her. I think had their been a fifth season they may have eventually accepted her. Also even with their distaste for sikozu i dont doubt they would try to rescue her if any thing bad happended to her.

[ScorpSik]

Didn'tcha wanna give her a cuddle when you found out she didn't *really* have clue about a *real* leviathan?.... or... was it just me?:(

[Selena]

I liked her Sputnik hairdo ... does that count as a positive comment?

[kymom5613]

All I can say is that #1, she's a redhead. Things with *us* are NOT always as they seem. #2 (and most important in my book) is that we all love this show so much that we can get into VERY heated debates over what we think/feel the characters' motivations are! What a hoot!
I love the fact that the writers and the talented cast have made all of us try and analyze their feelings, their backgrounds, and their futures. Incredible. I personally was glad to see those two sharing some of the good vibes...on a side note, maybe Moya should be renamed the "Love Leviathan"? LOL

[ctheokas]

Not to jump into any of the arguments/discussions going on, but I would like to give "props," as the kids today put it, to Sikozu. I think that, had she the time to develop, she would have been a fantastic character. Plus, that bit she had in UR, where she hissed "Weak species" at JC makes me shiver whenever I see it. Great and scary! What a character!

[ScorpSik]

...Yes. The Sikozu/Spy scene was marvellous!!

I've just been thinking about 2 specific instances which summed up, for me, why I love Scorpius and Sikozu. Both brought tears to my eyes, for quite different reasons.

For Scorpius, it was the scene of his first trip down a wormhole (ITLD). The innocence and wonder was beautiful to behold. Gentle, honest, and very open. I'm amazed that some people didn't fall completely in love with him at that moment - stark contrast to the 'been there, done that' attitude of JC. Just thinking about it, makes me want to give him a cuddle!

With Sikozu, this particular scene made me want to break through the TV screen and slap JC vary hard! WWL2. After JC has finished digging the grave, Sikozu (who had come up with the plan to save the ungrateful so-and-so) is standing there, and JC says 'Congratulations on your plan, Peacekeeper whore'. What a git. And the look on her face... so hurt by his words....

Tch... I have no more words.

Actually I do. Thinking about WWL2, it occurs to me how.. brave it was to save Sikozu in the manner Scorpy did. For all he knew, having an, apparantly, dead person whisper to her, could've freaked Sikozu out, causing her to shout 'AARRGHHH...He's alive!' :D
And as for Sikozu not telling the others she is... artificial...well, would you? If she's keeping a secret which, if revealed, puts not only her life, but the lives of countless 'normal' Kalish, and all the other bioloids, and their cause in great peril. Considering the crew virtually *told* her she wasn't trusted, is it any wonder she decided to keep her secret?
No one yells about Aeryn's secret, or Chiana's secret, or D'Argo's, Pilot's, Zhaan's, Jool's...

[||Scorpius||]

There is no way, no how that Scorpius killed Sikozu.

Watch Bad Timing again. We *Do Not* see him strangle her. All he does is pull her back against him with the belt across her throat--a belt she offered him, no less. There is no actual choking. She's not struggling for air--she's smiling rather blissfully. And she initiated it.

There is no reason, no characterisation sense in him killing her. It was one more cliffhanger angst factor for those who were ready to think him capable of that. Wayne also has said that Scorpius has a childlike innocence, and that Sikozu "got him" with a kiss.
As for what Wayne said at comiccon (and I didn't hear this myself)...give me a break. He said several times that it was erotic play...and if they cut the scene that way it was only to frell with the minds of those who so totally misunderstand the character as to think him capable of *anything*, including working for the frelling Scarrans...(a very lame red herring they threw into HTK--yet some people totally fell for it--just as they fell for it that Scorpius had betrayed Crichton and Aeryn, even though in fact he had saved their lives, though why he should have is beyond me, considering how they tormented him and were ready to kill HIM).

If Wayne was glad they cut the scene that way, I think it was only becuase it duped *some fans* into assuming the wrong thing about Scorpius. That is part of his power as a character. So it tweaks some folks. They've done that with Scorpius during the whole run of the show. He has that potential danger. He is misunderstood. He is the alien who the main POV character sees as an enemy--no matter how many times he saves Crichton ass, no matter how similar their goals are, when you get right down to it. It is part of his mystique that the writers do not present things completely from Scorpius' POV. It doesn't mean how JC thinks he is (how many times have they shown JC is totally paranoid about him?), or how things may 'appear' on a very casual viewing, is who Scorpius really is.

Why is it that those of us who have suspected, nay, Known, for a long time now (yes, pre-Incubator) that Scorpius is *more* than a 2-D villain (that he is more than what the Scarrans tried to make him be; that he is capable of tenderness, has qualities of innocence, honour and nobility, especially considering the treatment he's gotten his whole life)....are vindicated again, and again, and again....and those who think of him as some sort of simplistic bad-guy are proven wrong over and over again?

I think some Farscape viewers get so locked into the 'first impression' of a character that they can't grasp that Farscape characters are never that simple, no matter how much evidence to the contrary is presented to them. It is a tendency of the young to see things as black or white, and to take things at their surface value.
Look at Crichton: as if he's Mr. White Hat Randolf Scott...but the same fans who tend to put labels like 'bad guy' on one and 'hero' on the other refuse to see all the selfish, foolish, wicked things JC has done, just as they refuse to see the many good things about Scorpius. They are missing the whole depth of the show and of the characters. Both have their light and their dark.

I think the Moyans treated Sikozu terribly. She is assumed to be 'evil' (check the poll if you doubt me) by a lot of people for some very specious reasons: her alien looks, her mystery, and primarily just because she likes/admires/loves Scorpius. That's very poor reasoning. It's sloppy judgement. The Moyans can betray, lie like rugs, do selfish and thoughtless things--yet they are 'the good guys'? Please. They are *all* very ambiguous characters.

I think season five, and future seasons beyond that, will deal with redemption for these dark characters---ALL of them. All of them are dark. All need redeeming, in their own ways. They need personal revelations and forgiveness. And most importantly: they need to be understood in the context of their past experiences, their culture, and their circumstances.

[ScorpSik]

I get such a kick from your posts, llScorpiusll
Cheers!:D
MORE FUNDS FOR HYBRIDS + BIOLOIDS!!:ewink:

[Harveylives]

I love the sikozu and scorpy characters, but if I were Scorpy I wouldn't let the intimacy blind me. Sikozu is very secretive, and mysterious. She is ok for a roll in the hay, but I would not trust her. I would hate to see scorpy duped like he was by John in ITLD. I believe High Command would have very little mercy to a Captain who has failed the them so many times.

Failure 1: Not capturing the prisoners who destroyed his Gammak Base.

Failure2: Loss of the leviathon hybrid Talyn.

Failure 3: Destruction of command carrier and the wormhole data.

I believe the only reason he is still alive is because of his part in the Katratzi incident.

Your the man Scorpy, just keep your eyes open.

[Kerrigan]

About the erotic asphyxiation thing: Scorpius has done it before, with Natira, in LGM - With Friends Like These, and she seemed very, very pleased about it.:D I've just rewatched that episode and you can clearly see his hands on her neck in that scene.

[ScorpSik]

*ouch*

'OK for a roll in the hay'??
Lordy....such hostility..... we wuve Sikozu here....since when was mystery bad? And as for secretive, well... her secret holds the fate of her entire races' survival. You wouldn't want info like that to be common knowledge.

:cry2:

[Harveylives]

Originally posted by ScorpSik
*ouch*

'OK for a roll in the hay'??
Lordy....such hostility..... we wuve Sikozu here....since when was mystery bad? And as for secretive, well... her secret holds the fate of her entire races' survival. You wouldn't want info like that to be common knowledge.

:cry2:


I fear for scorpy that that is not the only secret she is withholding.

[ScorpSik]

*denial mode*
She can be trusted...she can be trusted.....

Before I came to these boards, I did not have a shred of doubt for Sikozu's intent. But you guuuuuys..... so distrustful. I banish my niggles. She won't betray him!! They both want the same things, and they look fab together.

[ScorpSik]

*ScorpSik clambers into a nice, safe corner on the ceiling of this thread*

[firemedic]

I do not see one reason for them not to be together. Scorpius has never endangered or harmed Sikozu that I am aware of and they both have so much in common. They are both of high intelligence and they both have a common goal that seems to guide both of their lives. One was built, made grown, whatever you want to call it to defeat the scarrens (sorry not sure on the spelling). The other has been spawned from hate, yet the goal is the same. And that one goal brings them together in a group of people who have different goals than they. It would seem odd to me if they wouldn’t join them on the show. Plus they both seem into the whole “choke me I like it thing”. I hope that we will be able to see where they take the relationship.

[Darth Buddha]

Both are rather childlike in their conceptions of right and wrong as well.

One because he was an abused child who reached adulthood in a quasi-nazi organization, the other because she really IS still a child in the ways that matter.

[ScorpSik]

It *is* a beautiful thing.:cool:

[ctheokas]

Originally posted by ||Scorpius||
There is no way, no how that Scorpius killed Sikozu.

||Scorpius||, I totally agree with you. Not only did it seem out of character, it's a fact that she's mentioned in the final short story. They aren't an item by the time Rygel dies, but she is definitely alive.

[ScorpSik]

....perhaps they *are* an item, but Sikozu is at home, looking after half a dozen Kalish/Scarran/Sebaccean hybrid kiddies.... hell, if you had to scoot around the walls in order to put 'em to bed, you'd be too tired to travel too
LOL!:D :D

[firemedic]

Originally posted by ctheokas
||Scorpius||, I totally agree with you. Not only did it seem out of character, it's a fact that she's mentioned in the final short story. They aren't an item by the time Rygel dies, but she is definitely alive.

What is this about the final short story? I have not heard of this, can I get some info. Thanks

[ctheokas]

In the final Farscape magazine, one of the creators (was it Rockne?) wrote a story called Horizons, which was about the Moya crew in 300 years. You can probably find it on the Kansas boards.

[firemedic]

Thanks I'll check it out.

[Zantar]

Where is kansas and this story?

[Commslink]

Kansas is another Farscape board, found here: Kansas (http://forums.scaperoute.com/kansas)

Here's the link to Horizons Part 1 (http://forums.scaperoute.com/kansas/index.php?board=35;action=display;threadid=4032). it was originally in the Farscape magazine, written by Rockne O'Bannon, but several people posted the sections on Kansas.

[ScorpSik]

With this being a safe 'flame' free thread, and having just rewatched ACOD, what are your thoughts about:

JC - 'You've been lying since the moment you arrived, Sputnik'

Now, call me a fool who wears rose-tinted glasses, but I can't think of a single instance where Sikozu has lied to the others.
Can anyone reel off a list?
Obviously, her crimes are heinous... there's the er.....um......oh, ... nope, can't think of one:D
But she hasn't killed randomly and frequently, beaten her partner, chopped off an arm, shot acid over an acquaintance or slept with a half-breed (no, wait... that she did do) :ewink:

[ScorpSik]

I sincerely hope that the Sikozu Support Group will be out in force to cheer Raelee at Burbank.
If I could be anywhere in the world on the 15th, it'd be in the queue to get her sig + say 'hello'.... you lucky guys that are going.... DO THE ORANGE PEOPLE PROUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Journeyer]

Sikozu is ... remarkable, and just to set one thing straight; I do not concider any of the characters particularly evil.. they just do what they know, and what they have to ... or are told to ... or what they feel like at the moment ... or any moment ... hmm, sounds quite psychotic... nevermind, disregard statements.

Her attraction to scorpius is evident and to me it's just a matter of what her turn-ons are :rollin: and in this case it is clearly leather and intelligence, which on a whole is not a bad mix :D

[ScorpSik]

Feel the love:D

I'm personally still reeling from the 'Sikozu is dead' (thanks Wayne - NOT) theory that abounds....
buuuut a visit to this safe-haven with all its lovely people does banish the terror:D :D :whip:

I am overwhelmed with a desire to purchase orange imitation leather, at present.....
Call for help.....:help:

[Zantar]

Wayne dispelled the rumors that sikozu was killed though...

[ScorpSik]

Did he?
Oh, I thought it ended with the 'Sikozu's dead, Braca's alive gag?

Well, if I'm misinformed, apologies:whip:
*prostrates self at mercy of baying hordes*

How did it end, then? Info relating to Sikozu comments seems very tough to find:D

[Zantar]

Well if im getting what you are refeering to correctly Wayne made a comment that he was not killing sikozu at the end of bad timing. Just having some sexual foreplay. Is that what you are talking about?

[Frunium Slip]

Originally posted by ScorpSik
With this being a safe 'flame' free thread, and having just rewatched ACOD, what are your thoughts about:

JC - 'You've been lying since the moment you arrived, Sputnik'

Now, call me a fool who wears rose-tinted glasses, but I can't think of a single instance where Sikozu has lied to the others.
Can anyone reel off a list?
Obviously, her crimes are heinous... there's the er.....um......oh, ... nope, can't think of one:D
But she hasn't killed randomly and frequently, beaten her partner, chopped off an arm, shot acid over an acquaintance or slept with a half-breed (no, wait... that she did do) :ewink:

Well, glad you asked, since I for one voted her evil, just a microt as I put on my flame proof suit, especially seeing as to the title of this thread, there that's better...

All italics are hypothesis, best guesses, statistics and outright lies, hope you enjoy, it sure was fun gathering the evidence, and besides some of you were actually making me feel guilty for putting the bad rap on Sikozu, so judge for yourself...

HUGE SPOILER WARNINGS FOR SEASON FOUR!







I MEAN IT, HUGE SPOILER WARNINGS!







HEY, I WARNED YOU!





ALRIGHT, BUT I WARNED YOU, IT'S NOT MY FAULT!




Crichton Kicks episode 4.01:

Sikozu, after stating 'What are you going to do for me?', claims not to be able to negotiate with the Grudeks chasing her. Which might have been true except that she then proceeds to negotiate for her life, not once, not twice but three times with the un-negotiable Grudeks.

JC states 'you negotiated that deal, kinda makes me want to shoot you myself'. Not exactly an endearing reply to her, now is it, first impressions are everything, and she didn't seem to make a very good first impression with our illustrious hero did she? Of course followed with Chiana doesn't like her, maybe she just had a bad day, it could happen.

States she was simply following orders. I think this is the same line used by every war criminal in history.

States her kind hates the Scarrans. We'll get back to this a lot later in this very thread.

Finally decides to help Moyans only after she hears the Grudeks confirming her death to the Kalish leaders.

What Was Lost part 1 episode 4.02:

We learn that Rygel doesn't like her. Seems the bad day continues.

Attempts to repair module for her own escape. OK, conjecture but really how many people could fit into it?

Destroys comm signal between Rygel and JC

Starts sentences and doesn't finish them, OK, but 'it is very annoying!' Even D'Argo doesn't seem to like her, hmmm, could be a trend, definitely a trend.

States that she doesn't trust JC about the plan. Yeah, you got that right she doesn't trust, reminds me of the thief who's afraid that all his stuff will be stolen. Even Rygel, ever the opportunist doesn't trust her, ie 'that female will betray us again.' Referencing the previous sell-outs to the Grudeks.

Sikozu then proceeds to tell the PKs about the plan proving Rygel right about yet another betrayal. And confirms later with her own statement 'I helped you, I told you about the Luxan.'
Curious that the PKs don't kill her after Scorpius' death, oh that's right, they are ever so forgiving.

Sikozu then lies about Scorpius death. Make all the excuses you want, but it is another lie.

What Was Lost part 2 episode 4.03:

Sikozu switches sides yet again, from the Pks back to the Moyans frell she's worse than Rygel, and she's only been in three eps. Only question for me at the end of this ep, is why is she still on Moya?

Lava's a Many Splendored Thing episode 4.04:

Hey, she doesn't screw anything up, doesn't really help either, but we'll give her credit for no lies, and no betrayals this ep, give credit where credit is due I think, of course she didn't have the opportunity, but that's nitpicking.

Promises episode 4.05:

Hey, Aeryn's back, completely distracted from Shikozu, sorry.

Meanwhile Sikozu plots with Scorpius, seemingly switching sides once again.
Maybe they both had a series of bad days, you know, that seem to carry on for a lifetime, maybe it's just me, I know my first impressions are usually on the money, but maybe she's got bad karma, or manners, whatever.

Learn that Scorpius has a spy on the command carrier, seems Sikozu is enthusiastic about that one.
Now this is curious, she sides with Scorpius, even though she had stated that her kind hated the Scarrans, now I might be wrong, but if you were against the Scarrans perhaps you would side with the PKs? The old the enemy of my enemy is my friend, but why Scorpius, as he is out of favor with the PKs and therefore could not substantially help out against the Scarrans at this time. But if she hooked up with Grayza, then there would be a potential ally against the Scarrans, if she really is against the Scarrans that is. Maybe.

Of course we learn even Pilot doesn't like her, frell, he states that she makes him miss Jool all the more. I guess the bad day continues.

Natural Election episode 4.06:

Sikozu takes an interest in JC's wormhole prediction ability. Of course if she really wanted to overthrow the Scarrans, and since the whole galaxy seems to know that the only way the PKs hold the Scarrans at bay is with the W-H weapons they supposedly pocess it would seem that JC would be her best bet after the PKs, but maybe not.

Sikozu opens Scorpius' cell, knowing the rest of the crew does not trust him. Earning even more brownie points with the Moyans, not.

Sikozu does help with diluting the mixture to get rid of the plant. Of course her life is at stake too, but she does help.

Sikozu states that 'minimal radiation exposure would eliminate three of (her) organs.' We'll get back to this later.

Sikozu votes for Scorpius as captain. Certain attractions aside, but if she were interested in stopping Scarrans, it is an interesting choice to say the least.

John Quixote episode 4.07:

OK this ep has basically nothing to do with Sikozu, but JC accuses Scorpius of sounding like her, and I don't think he means it as a compliment.

I Shrink Therefore I Am episode 4.08:

We learn that Sikozu helps only when she is threatened, not a particuarly evil trait, but not the best either, frell Rygel helps more than this. Curious, that some one who supposedly knows so much about Leviathans doesn't know much about them, and a curious thing this is, why learn about Leviathans, why help the Grudeks, since Leviathans are used primarly by PKs, could it be a way of contacting them for the Kalish underground, and if so, seems Sikozu isn't doing a very good job of that either.

PS not a Sikozu plot but it is humorous that Scorpius' interest in protecting/gaining the W-H info in Crichton actually causes the Scarrans to express interest in JC, a most curious development.

A Prefect Murder episode 4.09:

OK let me get this straight, Chiana gets kicked off planet for messing around with nobodies, meanwhile Sikozu is messing around with their prince, who just happens to be not trusted for, wait for it, being tainted by outside influences. What? No one sees a problem here? And what of Scorpius, not to mention the Kalish cause, can they be so easily forgotten, curious indeed. Of course she ditches him for that Leviathan and the crew she simply can't stand, but of course she does.

Coup by Clam episode 4.10:

She only eats ten times a cycle? Do bioloids really eat? OK if she's not a bioloid, she claims 'enhanced Kalish' so we'll go with that. But I get ahead of myself, of course it beats continuously saying I'll get back to that. But do we really know what she is?

Unrealized Reality episode 4.11

Sikozu discusses allying with Scorpius, of course JC always comes first. A very curious scene, as it seems most are with Sikozu, who's side is she really on?

Ah, Sikozu as a Scarran spy. A potential unrealized reality, but how far from the truth is it really? Still great stuff, and JC as a PK captain, if the inevitable did happen, how far would this be from actual reality?

Kansas episode 4.12:

Hey Sikozu, are you blending in or what?

Terra Firma episode 4.13:

JC's 'She's too smart,' when he learns she contacts IASA in English. OK, the thing to me is why does she leave Scorpius in a transport pod by himself, doesn't she distrust the Moyans as much as they do her? Unless she is on a fact finding mission, of course I mean spy, but for who, the kalish or the Scarrans, who might be interested in other worlds, including 'Erp'. She did ask if they posed a danger to them, or was that question probing for info about Erps defensive capabilities?

Sikozu refuses to allow medical examination, although understandable in this instance. Then proceeds to go back to Scorpius at the other end of the W-H. I thought travelling in W-Hs was dangerous, and now anyone can do it? Maybe it was just the instability of the W-Hs, oh frell I'm off topic, sorry.

Sikozu expresses interest in learning detonation sequence for pod to de-stabilize the W-H, two pods better chance of de-stabilization. OK, what? Ms I'm only looking out for myself wants to help Scorpius keep W-H knowledge from Grayza? I thought she was with the underground against the Scarrans, W-H knowledge in PK hands would help against the Scarrans, you know those oppressors back home she claims to hate. Or is that what she really wants? Most curious.

Twice Shy episode 4.14:

Sikozu claims 'to know Scorpius'. Interesting choice of words, I'm still not quite convinced who's side if any either of them is on.

Sikozu helps JC track Talikaa and JC saves the day. Of course Sikozu's life was on the line too, but for a dedicated resistance member what is death, yeah dedicated.

Sikozu to Scorpius 'If you want my help the price is inclusion and honesty.' Honesty, great choice of wording coming from her.

Mental as Anything episode 4.15:

Sikozu fits in! OK only kidding, a non event for the Enhanced Kalish resistance fighter extraordinaire.

Bringing Home the Beacon episode 4.16:

OK living in Scarran territory would probably allow Sikozu to see Scarran Strykers frequently, she does know one when she hears one. And she does know the Scarran Heirarchy as evidenced by her knowing Ahkna.

Sikozu helps Aeryn rescue Grayza and Braca, leaves Aeryn to what she thinks is her death, and promptly lets Braca and Grayza escape. Jumping ahead to later in the story arc, how come little Ms I hate Scarrans doesn't take out the two Scarrans right then and there, who would know, the PKs would probably be blamed and that could help the Kalish resistance, if just to distract the Scarrans for a while. But she doesn't, hmmm... And wants to leave Aeryn too, knowing JC and his W-H knowledge would be just a little put out, double hmmm...

Sikozu 'I did not betray you.' When? just now, sure seems you left Aeryn in the lurch, knowing she couldn't handle two Scarrans, but some one could, now couldn't she. Oh yeah, Sikozu wasn't threatened by them, seems she doesn't even hate them that much for a Kalish underground member.

A Constellation of Doubt episode 4.17:

Sikozu actually helping trying to find Katrazi. OK we don't actually see her ask anyone, but give her a break she probably did ask around, some, and all the aliens seem to give up before good ol' JC ever does. Even Pilot agrees later that it appears hopeless.

Chiana to Sikozu 'Don't you lie to Crichton.' Again I must state, when just now?

Dr Edith Anderson Psychologist and author of 'What Makes us Tick: A Study of Evil' : 'There is nothing about the alien Sikozu that is not infused with anger and distain, ET she is not.' Not exactly a ringing endorsement, seems Sikozu just can't get that first impression thing down.


And now JC says 'You've been lying since you got on board this ship.' Maybe its the post traumatic shock syndrome, maybe he's tired of her not helping unless she's threatened, maybe its Aeryn, always Aeryn, but for whatever reason here in ep 17 of Sikozu's stay he downright accuses her. And I do think she would have told him of Katrazi at this time, not to be helpful but because her life was threatened, and Sikozu always seems to help when she herself is threatened.

Prayer episode 4.18:

Aeryn, oh sorry distracted again... Seems that bizarro Stark on the other hand is quite helpful.

Meanwhile back on Moya Sikozu the ever loyal is trying to abandon JC and Scorpius. Actually sides with Rygel this time.

We're So Screwed part 1 episode 4.19:

Sikozu helps by interfacing with Kalish on Border Station, and them killing the lights. Huh? was she threatened, well maybe she is in danger if they do scew up and is making the best of her chances. Just seems out of character.

Scorpius left with Jannek, and now Sikozu worries about him. Is this the same Sikozu who was willing to abandon Scorpius on Bizarro Moya, I just don't get the swaying loyalty here.

We're So Screwed part 2 episode 4.20

Sikozu meets a bioloid and both of their eyes can spin. Enhanced Kalish or bioloid, seems enhanced Kalish can spin their eyes too, I guess.

Katrazi tension seems to be between Kalesh and Charrids, not the Scarrans. Hey I thought she said the Kalish people hated the Scarrans, maybe she meant the Charrids.

We're So Screwed part 3 episode 4.21[:

Sikozu drives elevator to plant chamber (Chrystherium Utilea see I can spell it) and exposes herself as an enhanced Kalesh underground member, killing four Scarrans with a built in radiation weapon. Alright, hold it right here, did she or did she not say that radiation would destroy three of her internal organs instantly, as I stated earlier. Hmmm... And she killed the Scarrans easily, hey you mean she could have easily killed Akna and Pennok in Bringing Home the Beacon, and who would have known, no one, yet she leaves Aeryn, our beloved hero's hottie to the same Scarrans that she could have easily killed, Oh go on Aeryn I can take care of this, you need to guard Grayza, and she wouldn't have let her escape either, I might add. Seems Sikozu didn't want Ahkna dead, most curious indeed. And might I add for a supposed dedicated resistance member she sure hasn't done a lot for the resistance up to this point has she?

JC then guts Katrazi while Sikozu is out of it. Wonder how she would have reacted to the threat to the Scarrans' little flower bed?

Bad Timing episode 4.22:

Sikozu abandons Moya and the crew to go with Scorpius, and throws out the 'Weak species' comment eerily just like in the unrealized reality ep where she is in fact a Scarran spy. most interesting choice of dialogue, throwing that element of doubt, right to the end. And how come the dedicated Kalish resistance member is not out helping the Kalish resistance now, while they have a chance at freedom from the Scarrans, with Katrazi out of action. Most curious indeed. If I was having a resistance movement, I wouldn't want her on my side. And now abandoning Moya to go with Scorpius who she wanted to abandon on Bizarro Moya, a very complex little alien ain't she?

So after 22 eps, I still don't know who she is, what she's after, who's side she's on if any other than her own, or even when she's telling the truth, Rygel inspires more loyalty to me, and he was Dominar, it will take him far longer than an ahn to repent for all the things he's done.

Digression over, flame away, I'm wearing the flame suit, and besides you asked for it...

Yet more mutterings from the uncluttered mind...

Edited to fix the frellin' mistakes in the italics. Went with Kalish spelling from Farscape Companion 4, for some reason occasionally put a 'h' in Sikozu's name, flame retardent suit works just fine, although it is amazing that some can outright condemn even with hypothesis based on actual scenes in the show, but present no actual evidence themselves, plus they did ask...

[Boron]

Wow, FS, how long did it take you to come up with all that?? I'm still not sure about Sikouzu, But I didn't take it apart that far!!!
You should be a detective.....


:borg: :charge: :pi:

[Zantar]

Very good analysis

[ScorpSik]

I shall reply... bear in mind, this is following the shittiest day I can remember, and I'm not enjoying the distrust infiltrating my safe thread.

I was going to respond to each, but most of your points are nothing more than nasty.

If you are not going to take into account her own situation, intellect, background, then don't comment.

Just because the Kalish work with/for the Scarrans does not negate the fact that they are slaves. Oppressed. Not everyone is heroic, not everyone is capable of escape... Kalish use intellect... it increases the chance of survival not to 'openly' anger your conquerors.

What is wrong with her liking Scorpy? He's the only person who went out of his way to help her, be knid to her.
Good choice, in my book.

Sikozu avoids scans for fear of being revealed as a bioloid - a position which could mean the freedom and safety of her people. A cause for which she would give her life.

Obviously Sikozu knows alot about Scarrans - her people have been ruled by them for frelling generations

Her loyalty has *always* been to her cause. Perhaps people don't understand this, or the things sacrificed for that cause - the cause is just, and noble, and if she has to be duplicitous (which I don't see) to safeguard her position, then why not?
Her people are her main concern.
What must it have been like for her to have her life, prospects, safety, mission - everything - taken from her in CK?

I have never distrusted her, and the fact that so many people equate mystery with duplicity, is saddening.

[Roland]

Evil.....Good? There is no such thing.

Why would Sikozu trust Moya's crew? They are escaped prisoners and behave very odd. To understand Sikozu you have to put your self in her position, imagine your self having HER upbringing and her knowledge.

I find it very logical for her to become partner with Scorpius rather then the irrational JC. And nobody except Scorpius even listen to her ideas and suggestions. Not that the crew should follow her ideas all the time, but when ignored you turn elsewhere...

I was suprised that Sikozu stayed on Moya just as much as the crew let her stay.

The old woman however.............:eh:

[ScorpSik]

((((((ROLAND)))))) :beer: :hug2:


#We shall overco-hu-hum, we shall ohhhveeer coooo-hu-hum#
:wingnut:

[waltersgirl]

If you are not going to take into account her own situation, intellect, background, then don't comment.

people are allowed their own opinions of the characters involved.

[ScorpSik]

Well, this is... was.... about the only safe place for Sikozu fans to express themselves - or maybe it's me.
People don't seem to like the fact that I feel JC was wrong in most of his opinions in S3/4.
Also, the fact that JC's opinions are taken as gospel (Oooo Scorpy was listening over the comms....uh-huh) irritates the hell outta me.
Apologies for rambling + getting heated, but hey, I am becoming rather used to being the 'odd one out'. You can go anywhere and slag Sikozu off, why come here to do it too?
I don't enter shippy threads and give my veeery long list of reasons opposing other's views.
Freedom of speech works two ways.
I just don't like predetermined 'fixed' and unwavering views that have little relevance.
Half of the list 'against' was just nonsense.

"Do not presume to moralise with your narrow perspectives"
(couldn't resist that....if I'm to be a forum pariah, I'll go down swinging:rollin: )

*to be read in a droll manner...it sounds a tad harsher than I intended. Sorry*

[waltersgirl]

you're posting on an open forum. not everyone has to agree with you. that's how it works. if you want to go on to a shippy thread and post your dissenting opinion, go right ahead. you're allowed to do that, just as others are allowed to come to this thread and post a dissenting opinion about Sikozu. it doesn't matter if you agree with their opinions, find their logic sound or their reasons plausible. they are someone else's opinions and you don't get to control them or dictate them. just like they don't get to do that to yours.

[ScorpSik]

I understand.
I don't mean to sound harsh, or dictatorial.

Unfortunately, I have been subjected to many flamings - for 'non-provocative' comments, purely for attempting to defend a character gainst the masses.

This is my retreat.
I accept other opinions, of course - but I don't like comments without validation.
As I said, many of the points on the 'anti' list were nonsense - If I were to say that stuff against JC, I would be ousted (that's from experience)

I like healthy debate, points argued using valid points. Groundless summation designed to irritate achieves it's goal, but little else.

:cool:

[waltersgirl]

as with almost all character debates/discussions, this is going circular. have/maintain/believe/defend whatever opinion you like. just remember that others can too, and they don't have to follow your rules of discussion/debate.

[Zantar]

yah i was going to say that to scorp..dont take it personal if someone disagrees with you on Sikozu. Farscape is supposed to initiate debate so that means now and then there will be people who disagree with you on who sikozu was, her motives and the like. if you want to knock JC go ahead. He certainly has made mistakes, but like you said with sikozu best to take into account his background and what he has gone through to. Anyway just keep stuff open for debate is all i ask, and dont take it personal at all if people say Sikozu was the evul. It doesnt matter really.

[Roland]

ScorpSik, explain something to a stupid turnip.

Is Sikozu just an "enhanced" Kalish? Or is she a complete "Bioloid" (completely robotic like Aeryn bioloid)?
I never understood that. I mean, would Scorpius have bondage sex with a robot? I know Chiana would......But the Master?

:help:

[ScorpSik]

(((Roland))) You are a lovely turnip :cool:

Kalish bioloids are different from the Scarran 'clone' type. Aerynloid looked like a vegetable dish inside, whereas Sikozu has 'normal' internal organs.
This leads me to think that Kalish bioloids are *not* replacements for 'original' people, but foetuses grown in a lab situation and ...adapted... to suit the cause.
Part organic, part inorganic.
All orange:D


*ScorpSik returns to a dark corner of the ceiling, until all this has blown over.*
Bye

[Boron]

I have a question, Scorpsik, I know I may be asking for potential spoilers here, but I've got to ask anyway.

What ep did Aeryn get cloned into a bioloid?? I have seen all eps except for a couple in the middle of season 4, and I haven't seen that, (that I remember). I know there was a copy of Stark, and John, of course, was twinned, but where did a copy of Aeryn as a bioloid come in at????


:confused: :aok: :confused:

[ScorpSik]

It was Bringing home the Beacon (ep 16)


You may need your hankies for the 'loid
(Artificial people of the world unite LOL)
:whip: :cool:

[ScorpSik]

I am child of joy, these days

*sprinkles petals across the fields beneath a lovely rainbow*

I am both glowing and defying gravity.
I got a letter from Raelee.

Life is complete.

*ScorpSik ventures forth to spread happiness through the land*
:thud: :faint: :stripe: :notworthy :thewave: :bluenana: :applaud: :woohoo: :woohoo: :cloud9: :crazydanc :flower: :joy:

[Zantar]

...im confused. Who is raelee?

BTW glad you are a child of joy:).

[Nicola]

Originally posted by Zantar
...im confused. Who is raelee?

BTW glad you are a child of joy:).

Oh Zantar....:eek3:

Best advice? Duck.

[Boron]

Zantar, I'm surprised nobody else has posted for you, But Raelee Hill is the actress who played Sikouzu on Farscape. She is very beautiful and I don't blame Scorp for being on cloud nine.


:love: :bgift: :sun: :hugz:

[ScorpSik]

*still giggling*

....tell ya what, she's also gotta be the nicest lady who walks the walls:whip:

What a lovely womam...
*sigh*
:aok:

[herdthinner]

Dude! Congrats on the letter. I got one from Virginia Hey, long after I'd forgotten that I'd even sent one to her. (Yes, I really can do that).

I admit that I'll have to watch S4 again, which I never taped, so I'll have to wait for the DVDs (gr! argh!), since I, too, had problems figgering out the Lady in Orange. I do remember that I'd be less likely to trust S4's Moya crew than they are to trust her. I mean, was I the only one who didn't want to strangle JC all throughout Crichton Kicks? Yes, he'd been a Robinson Crusoe on a Leviathan a while, but I just hate when he starts spewing overly-idiomatic nonsense. Worst Offense: his table speech to the Scarrans, PKs, etc.

But that's beside the point. They all treated her like pond scum from the beginning and never seemed to behave rationally, so it's easy to understand the lack of bonding here. I chuckled when Pilot read "Scorpius?" during Natural Election. Hell, almost a "Yeah! Scorpy!" reaction. Wishful thinking, of course.

And in the Shameless Plug Department, if I hated Sikky-poo, would I bother making this doll to give to Ms. Hill?

[ScorpSik]

HOORAY!!!!
More support!!



That doll ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!

I sent Raelee a couple of prints of my paintings.... she has an appreciation for art (which I was v.relieved at.... honestly was worried about sending the pics, but she is so lovely!!) - she'll be blown away by the doll, mate!

[ctheokas]

I always liked Sikozu, even though we never got to see more of her character in terms of growth.

[Roland]

VERY COOOOOOOOL DOLL! :eek:

[Maveric]

Originally posted by ScorpSik
*ahem*


SIKOZU CAN WALK ON THE WALLS,
SHE DOESN'T EAT OFTEN AT ALL.
HER LIMBS REATTACH,
FOR HER, THERE'S NO MATCH
LUCKY GIRL, SHE'S GOT SCORPY BY THE BALLS!!!

*roars with laughter*

i thought scorpy's balls were internal?

[Maveric]

just to clear up some things...

"We're So Screwed, Part 3: La Bomba"

Journal of Sikozu Shanu, documenting my infiltration of the Scarran base at Katratzi. -

I could save us, but it would endanger the Kalish Resistance by revealing my true nature. It would risk my life. And what would Scorpius think of me when he realized that I wasn't who I had claimed to be — that I was actually a bioloid, a biosynthetic machine created specifically to slaughter Scarrans?

[herdthinner]

What, is that from Skiffy's Episode Logs or something? Don't make me go there, man! Don't! Make meRARRRRRRRRGH!

I feel better now.


And that's Sikozu Svala Shanti Sugaysi Rodham Clinton Shanu to you, pal!

[Frunium Slip]

:bump:

[ScorpSik]

Cheers for the bumpness, Fru:D

So, orange people of the world, where do you see Sikozu in the mini??

WP seems to want Scorpy alone and *rolls eyes* baaad...
whereas Raelee would like them to be partners (scientific and the 'other':ewink: )

Whadda you guys think??

[hippydave]

Does Raillee Hill have her own website????

I think she deserves more attention!!!!!!

If anyone knows could they please contact me???

[herdthinner]

Originally posted by ScorpSik
Cheers for the bumpness, Fru:D

So, orange people of the world, where do you see Sikozu in the mini??

WP seems to want Scorpy alone and *rolls eyes* baaad...
whereas Raelee would like them to be partners (scientific and the 'other':ewink: )

Whadda you guys think??


Hm. I've really been trying not to give the mini ANY thought, other than that some resolution will be presented for the SURPRISE SHOCK ENDING for S4. And no semantics lovers quibble about "ending," please!!

Yes, I remember Mr. Pygram grousing about the squeezably-softening of Scorpy. I'm inclined to agree with him, but Sikky-poo can still be a part of that. She's not Natira and wouldn't likely be tricked or blowed up real good. As for not knowing she's a bioloid... isn't Scorpy kind of good about reading life signatures?? (or auras, or whatever the frell we wish to call them)


Wish I'd had more chances to say anything to Ms. Hill at Creation. I got that she's "nice," but only in a surface way. No biggie.

[Selena]

Raelee reminded me of a little sprite or woodland elf when I saw her in November. She was petite and had alabaster white skin (quite unAussie-like) and beautiful green eyes and auburn hair ... I almost found myself looking for the pixie ears ... :lol

[happy amnesiac]

You know, I can never understand why people assume Sikozu is eeeeevil from her actions in CK. At that point she has no reason to trust John, Chiana or to believe that they would not betray her to save their own necks. Just because we, the audience, know they're the "good guys" doesn't mean she did. She owed no-one but herself, and if I had been in that situation, I'd have done everything to save my own ass first too. The fact that she even bothered to try and barter for everyone's safety prooves that she's not all bad.

And I'm glad some people here believe she and Scorpy were just playing sexual games in BT, as me and my mum watched it together and she was convinced Scorpy had killed her, and I was so worried I'd find out she was right! I think that the Sikozu/Scorpy relationship was one of my favourite plot developments throughout season 4, and I cannot understand how people can't view tham as at least vaguely sympathetic!

[ScorpSik]

((((HAPPY AMNESIAC))))

WELCOME!!!
Good to see another S/SS shipper and Sikozu fan:D

Yup, Sikozu was treated *terribly* by the others, but be assured, that though we are a minority, we are growing.
Apparantly WP wants Scorp to be capricious and evil, and thinks Scorp would kill Sikozu (though after the elevator sequence to name but one, if that did happen, it'd be an utter betrayal of *both* characters, and cheapen everything we saw in S4).
Raelee OTOH, would love S/SS to become scientific partners and defeat the Scarrans.

I'm with Raelee.:ewink:

[Judith]

Originally posted by happy amnesiac
You know, I can never understand why people assume Sikozu is eeeeevil from her actions in CK.

CK?

I always have trouble with the episode acronyms for some reason.

[Frunium Slip]

Originally posted by Judith_Shakespeare
CK?

I always have trouble with the episode acronyms for some reason.

Crichton Kicks

[labingi]

I am a Farscape newbie, and this is my first post on this forum, but you guys inspired me to add my voice to the S/S5 support. They are absolutely my favorite 'ship on the show; in fact, they're the first 'ship on any show that I've really cared about in quite a while. In fact, it was substantially their interaction that changed me from "Farscape is a fun diversion" to "when did I fall in love with this show?!" And by the way, ScorpSik, I've been enjoying your fics. More please!

Okay, now I'm done with the gushing part. In terms of where these kids are going to go next (or should go), I think they have many possible directions besides she-betrays-him or he-kills-her or they-sail-blissfully-off-together. There's a lot of the show I haven't seen yet, so the basis for my conjectures is a bit sketchy, but it seems to me that as much a Scorpius and Sikozu have a lot in common--as many of you have pointed out--they also probably have some pretty important "ideological" differences. Namely, I suspect that Sikozu's background training/values are a lot closer to what we would consider conventionally moral. I tend to think she'd have a problem with some of his more extreme instances of ruthlessness. That, right there, could be a major point of tension for the two of them without requiring either to be "evil" or emotionally uncommitted. They may, indeed, be in love, but could they actually live together for any length of time without really locking horns over some means/ends issues? This could be extremely fascinating stuff!

[ScorpSik]

(((((LABINGI)))))

WELCOME to the house of orange - pull up a leatherette chair.
Nibbles to be served 10 times a cycle:D

So nice to have other fans join our small - but growing - number. I fear we who trust Sikozu are still the minority, but hell, a struggle that is worthy fires the blood :)
I like your thoughts on S/SS, and I agree that Sikozu has not yet seen Scorpy's full range.
As she is pragmatic in all things though, if the cause warrants it, I think she'd be behind Scorp.

Still dreading the mini... Wayne's ideas are not exactly... pleasing.. but I am hopeful that Sikozu will be 100% alive by the end:cool:


Thanks ever so much for the fics compliment
:D *virtual hugs + kisses to ya*
I have about 15 archived on Leviathan, (the 'Strength' fic is set after Bad Timing + deals with S/SS + Scarrans... it is pretty dark, though heh-heh) so if you wanna read 'em, just take a look in the 'Author's R-S' search bit ;)

[labingi]

Hi ScorpSik,

I have already read your "Strength" story with great enthusiasm. Right on:)

[ScorpSik]

Um...have I gone loopy, or have we lost a few pages here?

Stuff with the UR script, Deebs, Jeff + Dangermousie....

[BlackThorn]

Board got hacked. To fix it, the mods had to reinstall from a backup file, meaning we lost 5 days worth of posts. Once more bugs are worked out, they will lok into recovering the missing posts, but for now, at least we have the board at all.

[ScorpSik]

....f...five days...?

lordy....

Righto, from memory Dangermouse, 100% defferably certain croos my heart + hope to be spanked until my bottom goes purple, NO, Scorpy did not kill Sikozu.

2 reasons -
1 - Practicality, Sikozu is a link to the resistance who can greeeeaaaatly aid Scorp's Scarran vengeance. There is no way she is no longer useful to him.
Plus, with her knowledge + the time spent with Crichton, she may help with wormhole reasearch.

2 - emotionally.
In Twice Shy, Terra Firma + La Bomba, we see clear evidence that Scorp has *genuine* feeling/concern for Sikozu.
Particularly La Bomba, where he held her safe whilst she was unconscious. He had nothing to gain by that, it was simply something he felt he should do.
Compassion. They *care* for one another.

[Jeff O'Connor]

Exactly. Her links with the Kalish Resistance are very, VERY helpful to him, and he cares for her - it's not just a "let's be friends so I can use you" type thing between him and John for a good four years, almost. You never see Scorpius carrying John when he's unconscious with a deeply affectionate look in his eyes, now do you? (And if you did, certain obvious reasoning would state that he'd not have interest in Sikozu, I guess.)

[ScorpSik]

FYI.....and trying veeery, veeeery hard not to be jealous and hate everyone that's going :)

Raelee will NOT be in the UK on MAY 16th - BUT she WILL be at FSF in Sydney

Raelee will NOT be in the UK on July 2-4th - BUT she WILL be at Toronto Trek, Canada

[Jeff O'Connor]

FYI.....and trying veeery, veeeery hard not to be jealous and hate everyone that's going :)

Raelee will NOT be in the UK on MAY 16th - BUT she WILL be at FSF in Sydney

Raelee will NOT be in the UK on July 2-4th - BUT she WILL be at Toronto Trek, Canada

I take it you were going to the ones that she won't be in, or not going to any of them? :(

[ScorpSik]

No cons...I guess I'm just a teeny weeny bit pee'd off that, yet again, we are barren, bereft of Farscape activity in this, the Laaand of no cons.

*sigh*
We had Wayne over 2 years ago.

I had thoughts of trying to get the soap cons to get Raelee here, but even the soap cons are about dead right now.

[Jeff O'Connor]

No cons...I guess I'm just a teeny weeny bit pee'd off that, yet again, we are barren, bereft of Farscape activity in this, the Laaand of no cons.

*sigh*
We had Wayne over 2 years ago.

I had thoughts of trying to get the soap cons to get Raelee here, but even the soap cons are about dead right now.

Blegh... sorry to hear that... I'd love to see Raelee at a con, or even a chat, or whatever...

[ScorpSik]

Blegh... sorry to hear that... I'd love to see Raelee at a con, or even a chat, or whatever...

Yup, me too.

I'm going to a party as Sikozu, next weekend :D
So it's off to buy orange things this weekend.

LOL

[Jeff O'Connor]

Yup, me too.

I'm going to a party as Sikozu, next weekend :D
So it's off to buy orange things this weekend.

LOL

Sweet! Going to a party dressed as Sikozu... why, I'm going to go out on a limb here and bring up that doing something like this could even draw in new viewers for the mini! It's a new advertisement idea... go to parties dressed as your favorite Farscape characters! :rollin:

[Darth Buddha]

I don't generally do cons (I prefer smaller groups), but were Raelee a guest of one within driving distance, I'd be sorely tempted. She is, without a doubt, the most attractive young actress I have seen in a decade. Of course, I have a deadly weakness for red hair, pale skin, and freckles... so I may be a bit biased.

Regardless of Sikozu's motives, finding out MORE about her would have been one of my first requests of a Season 5.

I truly hope that should there be MORE minis that they don't fall into the trap of the Star Trek: TNG movies... where the focus was ALWAYS on Picard and Data to the detriment of the other characters. I felt Season 4 became a bit to John happy ... and while Johnny was in a serious snit no less! I feel that Sikozu, Chi, Pilot, and good old Ryg got a bit shortchanged of screen time and plot relevance.

But without a formal Season 5, I sincerely doubt we'd ever get an equivalent of Incubator for poor little Sikozu... or even a multiparter focusing on the Kalish resistance.

Because I've got some serious questions... is Sikozu the bioloid the original? Or is she a duplicate of a purely organic Sikouzu who fell in the resistance to the Scarrens... or more interesting still, what if she is a duplicate of an organic Sikozu who was a Scarren spy who was discovered by the Kalish. Would she remember all of her former life (doesn't seem like it, at least yet)? Would she remember it as a person, or just as data, much as Lt. Commander Data of TNG remembered things about the denizens of the colony where he was created.

Would her creators have even wanted her to remember? What if that former life only becomes available to her after some trauma and subsequent repair... what kind of emotional crisis would that precipitate? Could she switch loyalties? Would she suddenly become more "experienced" and yet fall into despair? How would Scorpy-Sue respond? Which of the Moyans would most be able to assist her in those sorts of dire straights? Aeryn, formerly a PK opressor? Chi, who is coming to terms with her role spreading a Nebari engineered bioweapon? Or perhaps Rygel plays the role of dear old dad and steers her straight?

This Bioloid existence poses all sorts of possibilities for entire episodes.

[Jeff O'Connor]

If there is a Season 5, the more I think about it, the more trilogies the fans would request. At this point it would probably become 12-15 episodes of trilogies focusing on various characters, with the remaining episodes just "off-track" ones like "Revenging Angel" and "Coup by Clam", or something. I'm not complaining, though... I think Sikozu and the Kalish Resistance deserve a three-parter just as much as Chiana and the Nebari Resistance, and I think D needs some serious Luxan episodes, and Rygel could try and return, all of that... no doubt Sikozu's would probably be the first as they're all so far from their homes now, apart from her and the rest of the newer cast. Those points you brought up are really good ones Buddha, just like I tend to comment with yours, anyway. The possibilities of Sikozu are relentlessly endless to us at this point. I sort've am hoping they don't just dump a five-minute "well now you know" on us for the mini.

[Darth Buddha]

Yo, Jeff..

Don't give me too much credit. I've just been around twenty years longer, have seen and read a LOT of science fiction and literature.

Plus you are keeping up pretty well with us old timers anyway!

[Jeff O'Connor]

Yo, Jeff..

Don't give me too much credit. I've just been around twenty years longer, have seen and read a LOT of science fiction and literature.

Plus you are keeping up pretty well with us old timers anyway!

Heheh.
:smokin:

[ScorpSik]

Jeff, Deebs, you guys rock.... *sigh* there's soooooooo many unanswered questins... ones I'd *love* to learn about, and ones I fear to know the answers t :)

But I'm really proud that *finally* after all this time, there's more people joining the cause, and actually *appreciating* both Sikozu and Raelee.

If I was going to a con, I'd tell Raelee about how the 'movement' is growing, how more + more people actually *want* to know about Sikozu, the Kalish, the Resistance, Bioloids etc.

I would like to think she'd be chuffed.

[Jeff O'Connor]

Jeff, Deebs, you guys rock.... *sigh* there's soooooooo many unanswered questins... ones I'd *love* to learn about, and ones I fear to know the answers t :)

But I'm really proud that *finally* after all this time, there's more people joining the cause, and actually *appreciating* both Sikozu and Raelee.

If I was going to a con, I'd tell Raelee about how the 'movement' is growing, how more + more people actually *want* to know about Sikozu, the Kalish, the Resistance, Bioloids etc.

I would like to think she'd be chuffed.

I'm sure she would be. ;)

As a fan who came into the show at the end of Season 4 unfortunately by the time on Midnights with Moya/Sunday with Moya/whatever got to Sikozu's introduction I was well-aware of animosity toward her from many fans, and I never felt it nor ever really understand the logic behind it. Sikozu all the way! :D

[Darth Buddha]

I have ALWAYS appreciated Raelee.

I hate to admit it, but I've even downloaded the few partial nudes of her that are out there on the internet... they are quite tasteful, and very beautiful... in an era were most such photos are not. An exceptional model and apparently an exceptional photographer as well.

The photo below is NOT from that shoot! But it nonetheless makes me swoon.

[ScorpSik]

Deebs... great pic.
She is very beautiful - and those naughty pics, you're right, are very tasteful snaps.

Jeff.... lordy, Would you believe that I sarted one of 'these - Save Sik...' threads on *every* board I registered on.
Literally every board had anti-Sikozu hate messages.
There are still some, in my eyes, highly offensive opinions floating around - mostly referring to the Scorpy relationship.

Is the populace *really* that shallow? It appears so.
It mystifies me why this occured (and with Jool, too) - check the 'Eeeevilest Moyan' results... bizarre.

[Jeff O'Connor]

Deebs... great pic.
Jeff.... lordy, Would you believe that I sarted one of 'these - Save Sik...' threads on *every* board I registered on.
Literally every board had anti-Sikozu hate messages.
There are still some, in my eyes, highly offensive opinions floating around - mostly referring to the Scorpy relationship.

Is the populace *really* that shallow? It appears so.
It mystifies me why this occured (and with Jool, too) - check the 'Eeeevilest Moyan' results... bizarre.

I believe that you have this thread everywhere, you should too. Because we allllll know that Sikozu killed parts of the crew bit by bit, took control of the ship, had affairs with everyone, threw them out the air lock when she was done, blew up Earth... oh, just everything. She was so terrible in Season Four. Just like Jool in Season Three... oh wait, none of that is true. :rolleyes:

[Darth Buddha]

Hmmmm... even if Sikozu DOES turn out to be 100% evil: a deep Scarren Double Agent who snaps out of the Kalish Resistance Mode a la Talia Winters of B5, who breaks Scorpy's heart and burns his second chance with the PK's, and while shes at it sells Moya to toubray hunters (which I think is far less than a 0.1% chance), she's still a damned interesting character.

So whether she's evilest, goodliest, naivest, dual personalitiest, or whatever, I would STILL like Sikozu because she is a complicated and entertaining character.

Hate posts about a given character who adds to the story, good, bad, or otherwise, is really rather pointless unless you find it makes the whole program no longer entertaining. For example, hating Darth Vader if you like Episodes IV-VI is silly. Hating the Klingons and Mr. Worf if you otherwise like the Klingon plots is also silly.

On the other hand, though, if a character makes the show unwatchable (oh, say, Jar-Jar Binks and Episode I, which I will NEVER WATCH AGAIN!) then you've got a legitimate gripe.

As to Raelee, the picture I posted above is my favorite, though the ones attached to this post come in a close second and third.

What makes her appearance so exceptional is her face. A nice figure is pretty common among TV actresses. Even a pretty face is pretty common among younger women on television. But a distinctive face with beauty (as opposed to just cute and or 'sexy') is a rare thing among today's stars. Most new actresses are "cookie cutter" and could resemble any other fifty blondes or brunettes, latinas or african americans, etc.

I would really like to see her on the big screen... it would be nice to see a truly exceptional face in film again.

[Jeff O'Connor]

I guess I can sort've say even if she turns out to be another Talia Winters, yeah, it would make for an awesomely interesting character nevertheless. :)

[Enforcer]

I must agree with Darth Budda with regards to Ms. Hill's appearance. She is certainly not a "cookie-cutter." Of course, many of those women pay for enhancements which is probably why they have begun to look so much alike.

I love Sikozu's character and I think it would be cool if she turned out to be evil. It would be a nice twist. However, I also love a complex character. One of the things I like most about her character is that we haven't been able to nail her down. Is she good or evil? I don't know and that facinates me.

[Ouroboros]

Is the populace *really* that shallow? It appears so.
It mystifies me why this occured (and with Jool, too) - check the 'Eeeevilest Moyan' results... bizarre.

That really took me for a loop to, the results of that poll I did. I think the best reason given was "we don't know anything about her/I don't trust her". It would seem the majority of the board's denizens don't prescribe to that cliche about a stranger just being a friend you haven't met yet.

I personally think it goes back to the whole "if it is itself or is connected to anything that's involved with compromising the John Aeryn ship it is evil and is to be hated."

You can use that unified theory to explain the inordinate amounts of hate for Scorpius, Sikozu, Grayza and most recently Gilina. Yep apparently there's people who actually disliked sweet little Gilina just 'cause she had the nerve to be attracted to John Crichton.

I know back when I disliked Sikozu I did so because at the time I felt she was just a stop gap replacement for Jool due to Tammy's leaving the show. The attitude and appearance were all seemingly lifted and only slightly tweaked at first. Jool was and remains one of my favorite female characters so I resented the replacement almost automatically. As I started to watch more eps with her in it though it became clear she was evolving in a different direction and taking on a character of her own. As this happened and I began to think more about the possibilities that were opening up for her I found I no longer disliked the character as much as I had originally.

Some people, I'm convinced, would be happier if the show just ran 48 strait minutes of John and Aeryn lovvy time. No conflicts, no outside influences, nothing that might endanger or god forbid damage that precious little relationship. Sikozu is connected to Scorpius and Scorpius is probably the single biggest ongoing threat to happy time. This being the case Sikozu gets some of the hate directed at him, guilty by association and all that. It's a sad reality and I don't mean to suggest that this is the case with everyone that likes the John Aeryn relationship. It is out there however and I've seen it in action. Recent treads asking the question of would the show even be worth continuing if J/A couldn't be happy spring to mind.

What makes her appearance so exceptional is her face. A nice figure is pretty common among TV actresses. Even a pretty face is pretty common among younger women on television. But a distinctive face with beauty (as opposed to just cute and or 'sexy') is a rare thing among today's stars. Most new actresses are "cookie cutter" and could resemble any other fifty blondes or brunettes, latinas or african americans, etc.

You know I'd actually go ahead and extend this observation to just about all the women on the cast.

Claudia
Gigi
Virginia
Rebecca
Tammy
Raelee

None of them really fit the classic cookie cutter model. You can even carry it on to many of the female guest stars as well and it'll hold up. They're all attractive women but they're not stereotypical attractive. Good casting.

Another thing I really like about Farscape is it's all 100% natural if you get what I mean. ;)

[ScorpSik]

That really took me for a loop to, the results of that poll I did. I think the best reason given was "we don't know anything about her/I don't trust her". It would seem the majority of the board's denizens don't prescribe to that cliche about a stranger just being a friend you haven't met yet.

I personally think it goes back to the whole "if it is itself or is connected to anything that's involved with compromising the John Aeryn ship it is evil and is to be hated."

You can use that unified theory to explain the inordinate amounts of hate for Scorpius, Sikozu, Grayza and most recently Gilina. Yep apparently there's people who actually disliked sweet little Gilina just 'cause she had the nerve to be attracted to John Crichton.

;)

Ouroboros, I totally agree!

I was unaware of the Gilina hate, I must admit... that's terrible!!
I've never understood the 'majority' view about the myterious equating evil. As I never understood the huge loathing for the fantastic Jool (who deserved faaaaaar more screentime in S3).

I always respected *your* reasons for disliking Sikozu, because you actually had more than a 'She's new + untrustworthy' reason :D

It really is a shame, that some of the most interesting + complex characters get hidden under the 'annoying/evil' banner, never having the chance to be fully explored, if not by TPTB, then by the fans.
Perhaps we should have an international campaign for more recognition for Jool, Noranti, Grayza, Scorp + Sikozu.

The thing that boils my blood most of all, is that the negative opinion of Jool reached Tammy, making her a little nervous for her first con.
That is *awful*
That was the main reason for my starting *this* thread, trying to stop that sort of thing happening to Raelee, too.
And it's *so* nice to see allthe different perspectives + opinions about a character whose past + future we have to create through educated guesses :D

[Enforcer]

:smokin: I feel you, dawg.

I agree, all of the women in this cast are "natural" beauties. That includes some of the peripheral characters as well.

[Ouroboros]

I was unaware of the Gilina hate, I must admit... that's terrible!!

I wouldn't call it hate really more a "how dare she move in on Aeryn's turf" weirdish sort of jealosy by proxy.

I've never understood the 'majority' view about the myterious equating evil. As I never understood the huge loathing for the fantastic Jool (who deserved faaaaaar more screentime in S3).

Thinking of someone as evil just because you don't have a lot of information on them is pretty stupid and a good way to make a lot of uneccessary enemies. I can understand suspicion toward a newcomer, that's just good sense with the kind of stuff that typically sneaks onto Moya, but outright dislike is a bit of a leap. Crichton for example really went over to top trashing on Sikozu at times.

I also never figured out why the entire crew seemed to love to beat on, torment and generally degrade Jool often for little or no reason. Sure she was a whiner but that's not an excuse to do anything other than perhaps verbally mock her when she starts to whine to much. I can remember the one scene where her and Aeryn were having an otherwise pleasent conversation while doing repairs. Aeryn asks her to melt some wires, she doesn't catch on right away so rather than explain herself better Aeryn physically assaults her in order to cause her enough pain to make her scream. It was right out of nowhere no provocation, nothing, Jool was actually being nice and calm for once.

Watching stuff like that really dims my view of the "good guys". The way they treated Jool in general dimmed my view of all of them save D'argo. I never saw Scorpius throw a hammerlock on Braca in the middle of a conversation for no reason other than to make him scream.

It really is a shame, that some of the most interesting + complex characters get hidden under the 'annoying/evil' banner, never having the chance to be fully explored, if not by TPTB, then by the fans.
Perhaps we should have an international campaign for more recognition for Jool, Noranti, Grayza, Scorp + Sikozu.

I'll join you in that lamentation. I'd also put Chiana on the list though and Braca. These two were both interesting characters that had to take a back seat while John and Aeryn decided if they loved each other for the second or third time. Chiana's treatment in season 4 especially was bad. She was more or less wallpaper. Braca to, while I'd probably slap him for his numerous stupidities were he real, was an interesting character I always wanted to learn more about background wise.

As far as exploring it on my own goes I'm writing a novel length Grayza centric fic that also fetures Scorpius, Sikozu, Braca and Niem in leading roles. Yep that's right no main cast at all. :D

Since I know you do the whole fic thing I could send you some of that if your interested in seeing what kind of fiction comes out of my twisted brain.

The thing that boils my blood most of all, is that the negative opinion of Jool reached Tammy, making her a little nervous for her first con.
That is *awful*

Yeah that pissed me off when I heard about it to. It's the type of thing that makes me hope Rebecca Riggs doesn't own a computer or that she thinks of it as doing a good job as a bad guy. It's the really low blow classless remarks that insult the actress' physical appearence that really get under my skin. You don't like the character fine but when you start throwing around grade school level insults about the way they look that takes it beyond the realm of fiction, particularly in cases where little makeup is involved.

[ScorpSik]

I also never figured out why the entire crew seemed to love to beat on, torment and generally degrade Jool often for little or no reason. Sure she was a whiner but that's not an excuse to do anything other than perhaps verbally mock her when she starts to whine to much. I can remember the one scene where her and Aeryn were having an otherwise pleasent conversation while doing repairs. Aeryn asks her to melt some wires, she doesn't catch on right away so rather than explain herself better Aeryn physically assaults her in order to cause her enough pain to make her scream. It was right out of nowhere no provocation, nothing, Jool was actually being nice and calm for once.



OMG.....That scene.
I felt so very bad for Jool, and wanted to smash Aeryn round the face with her frelling spanner! Jool deserved a cuddle afer that.

When I watched the show, before finding forums, I (naively) presumed that most people would've agreed that both Jool + Sikozu were treated way beyond what was appropriate.
I *still* find myself shaking my head at some of the posts on various boards.

Also, Chiana.
Gigi did some *wonderful* work in S4 - really edgy, messed up and aggressive, but the writers gave herv *nothing* to build to.
We had the mention of assault (which no-one seemed to ask/comfort her about, and Gigi played it real... but the whole plot vanished beneath J/A 'will they/won't they schmultz

And Rygel... in ITLD, it was alluded to that he had been given the means to overthrow his cousin. What happens?
It's never mentioned again.

(well, that may've hindered the amount of 'sitting in a corridor' scenes between J+A) :D :D :D

Your Grayza fic BTW, sounds great... that is a fic I'd *(love* to see :cool:

[Darth Buddha]

Shippydom does seem to screw with folks priorities, doesn't it?

What surprised me about the "Princess" Jool was that she did manage to calm down, chill out, drop the superiority crap, stop wigging in every stressful situation, and seemed to be actually fond of the lot of them! Especially D'Argo, but she gave John and the others quite a nice sendoff as well.

I personally felt she needed some negative reinforcment at times... but not the physical aspect.

In the case of Sikozu, OF COURSE THE CREW WAS SUSPICIOUS. She'd known a PK codeword (and did she ever tell them that Scorpius had told her that?). She was an obvious player with information and loyalties, and they didn't know where they lay, and whom she was playing.

The thing that irritates me with the crew's treatment of her later on, despite her loyalty to Scorpius, when they shove her out the airlock unceremoniously. After all, she HAD saved their bacon in the flower chamber. And unlike Scorpius, they had no REAL axes to grind. She hadn't put a chip in John's head, she hadn't put anyone in an Aurora chair.. really she was rather benign.

Yes she was an arrogant childlike thing in many ways. But some better treatment would have probably helped her advance far more than she had by end of Season 4. As is, she is still very vulnerable to being played (Command Carrier Politics, should she leave by hezmana knows what other player). She could have been done better by.

[Jeff O'Connor]

In regards to the treatment of Jool and later Sikozu, I completely concur. Although I would say I saw slightly better treatment of Jool, particularly later on in Season 3, than I had ever saw toward Sikozu in any of Season 4. Which does in itself make sense, I suppose, because Sikozu was so close to Scorpius and knew things that would be questionable, whereas Jool was just an Interion with a cause. Nevertheless I'd think that by halfway through Season 4 and Sikozu's living on Moya, it would be better than it was. Here's a rather crude, short list of why I'd probably excuse the Moyans - to a slight degree for their terrible treatment of Sikozu. This is not to suggest I approved of it, but at least it sort've explains things. Some of it is just thrown into my head though randomly now, though, so feel free to criticize it all you want because it's just one biased opinion.

1.) John Crichton: He was so obsessed with Aeryn and wormholes. What's new? It should be stressed that not much had been able to go on after he was separated from her and she went with Talyn-John besides her near-constant negative treatment toward him due to her situation. She blew him off for the most part upon her return, then suddenly she's pregnant and gone. She's back, and he's damned sure he's going to get to the bottom of things, and affirm the love that was really building for him personally, not the other John, more memorably in Season 2 than in Season 3 where she was with the other one. It was the hope of Season 2 between them that kept him going, and now things were really frelled up. This combined with wormholes and still being hunted all over the place - that's never going to end - would make him irritable, and so when he finds someone very close to his former, and arguably, remaining enemy, things stir up pretty strange. Nevertheless even if she was new, he treated Noranti far better, who had only just met him a tad bit before Sikozu's introduction. Why? She's very mysterious - I'd say even moreso than Sikozu. At least Sikozu's introduction gave John a small dose of who she was, whether it was fabricated or not. Noranti gives him drugs and more questions than answers, and yet he gets along with her all right. My excuses for John really don't add up.

2.) Aeryn Sun: She's pregnant. She loves John. She doesn't love John. She wants the baby to be John's. Oh, but what if it isn't. Really, that's what most of us think of when we think of Season 4 Aeryn. It's important to remember that she's still just as strong, or at least, she wants to believe she is. No matter how much time away from the Peacekeepers she's had, all of her grief - the death of her mother, the loss of Talyn-John, even the farewell to Crais - alongside anything else she's experienced in three years - really hits her hard when she thinks she has perhaps nothing left but her strength, the wonderful strength... then realizes that pregnant, she doesn't have it. These aren't excuses to treat Sikozu poorly, however, but I don't think she did it so much as some of the others to begin with. She was under a lot of pressure, but didn't let that kill the others. Aeryn was far more irritable than usual, but her experiences over time had led her to a much greater understanding for others, and although her treatment to Jool beyond erks me, at least she smiled.

3.) Ka D'Argo: Honestly, I think D'Argo had no excuse whatsoever, but then, I didn't see him doing so much to her as some of the others. Maybe for what he did, it could've been, ironically, what Ouroboros originally said he disliked Sikozu for in part - she does sort've bare a certain resemblance to a certain somebody to whom D'Argo was starting to feel for. Also, D'Argo's relationships take time to progress; John is his best friend, I'd say. Aeryn is a fellow warrior and an excellent ally. Chiana is, well, you know. Rygel can be trusted at times, and can prove to be a good friend, too. Others also have impacts on D'Argo but it takes time. A whole season isn't uncommon, I guess; he loathed John for a while. Sikozu is very assuming at times, and D'Argo who trusts his senses probably wouldn't buy it.

4.) Chiana: Oh, man. Where do I get started. Chiana is who Chiana is, and some parts her Nebari nature are never going to be changed, I believe. She's very untrusting toward newcomers. You can't blame her, I guess, after everything she's gone through and everything she's been hinted at having gone through in the past. The Nebari are very quick to determine things from what we've seen. Chiana despised "the Princess" at first, because as Chiana sees things to me, if you don't know what it is, then it's probably going to kill you. A lot like some of the board members here have seemed to have surmised about Sikozu. Once she gets to know someone, though, then they could possibly not be a threat to her, and after time she might even get to like them, like with Jool. With Sikozu, at first she all-out hates her in Season 4, I think, then sort've gets a little tiny bit of "she's okay" then loses it, I think, because suddenly Sikozu is this Kalish with a Resistance, and man-o-man that sounds like the Nebari in a way, and this can't be right because all of a sudden there are so many questions regarding Sikozu. Questions about someone equate to bad in terms with Chiana. She immediately took a liking to John because he saved her; if someone saves Chiana then they're automatically good but if she meets someone and they don't do something for her, then they're probably bad. It's not excuses, it's just who she is.

5.) Rygel: He's Rygel. He wants to touch her but knows he probably can't. This is how he feels about the female Moyans in general. End of subject.

6.) Noranti: Noranti, I don't think, really disliked Sikozu at all. Sikozu was just always so overwhelmed and unaccustomed that she constantly blew the woman off as a bumbling old witch; actually a lot of people did this to Grann but that's another story altogether.

7.) Pilot: Sikozu said a bad thing to Pilot. Sikozu said something that made Pilot sad. Poor Pilot. Boo-hoo. Pilot, we all care for and are ALWAYS on his side with EVERYTHING just because his species can't move. Come on, I'm going to get this out in the open right now and say that I know Pilot has possibly the biggest chip on his shoulder, but we need to look at his treatment with Sikozu and his attitude about certain things in general. His responses toward John and D'Argo in SNS really erked me, alongside many other things. "I've known and trusted them for years now, these two. I need to be alone though because they're loud and smelly and suck. What? They're back? The loud smelly sucky people? I don't believe it, they're lying because they love me and I don't love them." That's my personal interpretation of it. So with Sikozu, she backtalked him, the TRALK! So poor Pilot gets everyone to see that she did a bad thing to him and automatically there's a lot of hatred toward her. Animosity because poor immobile Pilot's feelings were hurt. I'm sorry, I might be the ONLY person on this board to say this, but I don't like Pilot too much.

8.) Scorpius: Um... yeah... anyway.



Well I think that's it. I sort've doubt anyone will actually read all of that nonsense, but I hope they do. I spent the better part of half an hour typing it! :aok:

It's just my opinions, maybe they'll shed a little light, bring a bit more discussion to this thread, maybe not. Either way, I wanted to vent, to rant, and boy did I ever.

[Jeff O'Connor]

I'm only posting again because my server did a strange thing and was still showing Buddha's reply earlier today as the last reply, so by posting this it can be seen that I was the last one to post and people will read it. Drats, that was confusing.

[ScorpSik]

LMAO, Jeff!!!!!!!!

That is so damn funny + true

I was always puzzled at some days, they'd be all pally with her, other days, the opposite.
Especially Chi, Aeryn + D'Argo
APM, Chi was nice in the end to Sik... then she's not (despite Sik's 'don't hurt her' to the nasty shell like whatsits from ISTIA) :)
Aeryn was all over the place when not glued to John
and D'Argo... he was pretty cool most of the time - but that growl when Sik had expertly saved their butts from the huuuuge and deadly Scarran dreadnaught, was a tad uncalled for.

Poor D'Argo... I shouldn't blame him though. After all, his character was completely reduced to nothing more than 'comedic banter' in S4.
Where's Jool when we need her.

Speaking of Jool - does anyone know of some nice pics of her - not 'posed' or smiley pics, but dramatic, gritty... showing her heart (and preferably shoulders)??
I'm looking for a nice pic to paint :)

[Jeff O'Connor]

Haha, I'm glad you liked my overly long interpretation, ScorpSik. Hm, I'll look into the Jool pictures though. I love your artwork; I'd love to see what you could do with it. I know one good place to look would probably be along the lines of WWL I and II, seeing as how those two episodes are the last of her thus far and really show who she is, alongside what she has become. I'll look around though. :aok:

[Ouroboros]

I sent you a Pm regarding the fic details

Speaking of Jool - does anyone know of some nice pics of her - not 'posed' or smiley pics, but dramatic, gritty... showing her heart (and preferably shoulders)??
I'm looking for a nice pic to paint

This one fits the bill I think

:cool:

[ScorpSik]

(((((OUROBOROS)))))

Thankee!!!!!
That is GREAT!

Jool has such a beautiful look about her.

[Darth Buddha]

You know, that picture is rather indicative of Jool's transformation while with the Moyans. She was scared to death with weapons and inept in most cases (remember the episode where John gets twinned?).

By "What Was Lost", she's a regular trooper!

[Jeff O'Connor]

Wow, Ouroboros. That really DOES rock! And yes, Buddha, her transformation is great. And since she doesn't really have a terrible amount to hide from everyone like Sikozu's secrets, she has the ability to expand her character quite well. I like Jool a lot, too. :D

[Ouroboros]

That pic was actually from SIW her first episode though, so slight problem with the whole transformation thing. It's from the scene where she's going after John after she learns what he did to her cousin.

It seems that Jool is just one of those people with a long fuse. She can take a lot of crap and probably uses her "I'm a civilized being" line of thought to talk herself out of retaliation/physical violence. Push her too far though and you get that picture.

[ScorpSik]

I was thinking about Jool yesterday, and, personally, when I hear/read people talk about John's, er... mistakes... often the 'only human' phrase comes up.

Now, personally, I reckon 80% of humans would behave more like Jool than John.
Bearing in mind, that when Jool awoke, it was to a *completely* different/alien environment to her own.
Sure, she was spoilt, a little petulent, but she was also terrified and unused to weapons etc
That to me, seemed just as natural than john's 'field trip' kind of curiosity, yet poor Jool gets all the stick :)

Mind you - she *did* get a helluva lot of fantastic dialogue!!

[Ouroboros]

I always thought that had they both come on Moya at the same time Jool and John could have hit it off. They actually had something in common. I always thought she was the hottest one anyway and yes she did get some great lines.

John only reacted so well because he was a sci-fi fan and was probably literally living a lifelong dream, at least 'till Cr