Noranti discussion (Season 4 Spoilers)

[blueassbitch]

Spoilers for all of Season 4
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OK, so this old woman show up and know one really knows who she is. Nor do they really know if she came with the others the crew saved after they blew up the Comand Carrier. She seems to only be concerned with helping John with his problems and no one elses. If she really wanted to help John as a thank you for saving her and the others why didn't she also try and help Aeryn see thru all her lies so she could accept John once again and not run off and leave him miserable. I wasn’t quite sure about her at first. But I came to the conclusion she was nothing but trouble in WWLpt.2 when she tried to kill John because he knew too much about the probe that could be used as a weapon if Graza got a hold of it. She wasn’t too worried about his wormhole knowledge that could be used as a weapon. Then she was giving John some nose blow so he could forget all about Aeryn. It could be said that this help John hide his feelings for Aeryn from Scorpious. But it was pointed out in Terra Firma that John had a tell, his lips would soften just a little when he saw her. So the drugs didn’t work. Then at the end of Bad Timing Scorpious mentions that he doesn’t want anyone else from the crew captured but the old woman. Why does he want her all of sudden instead of John? Could she have been working for him to extract the knowledge from John during drugged dazes? Or does Scorpy now realize he could use her for that purpose since he knew he wouldn’t be able to get the knowledge from John directly( 1. because john is too smart 2.Scorpy’s realizes his clone has turned to johns side because their survivals are intertwined). Maybe he wants Noranti to extract the knowledge from Aeryn & Johns baby before the Scarrens do. Well since it’s going to be a little while before we get some answers from the writers, I was hoping for a little in put. What do you think, does Noranti have good intentions or is she nothing but trouble?

[Darth Buddha]

Yet another good poll.. I'll be interested to see how it pans out.

[jfranka]

Hmm...

I've been thinking about this a lot, lately, because I re-watched the last (sniff) episode a couple of days ago. I didn't catch that Scorpy wanted to take John & Noranti.
I've also noticed that Noranti still doesn't like Aeryn, or doesn't like John's relationship with Aeryn. She still offers him the drugs even though Aeryn and John are closer than ever before. She shoots Aeryn a nasty look when she comes in the room. I really don't think Noranti likes Aeryn at all.

I went with "working with Scorpious" because of that. I get the feeling that she is working with him without her knowing that she is....

[Zantar]

As someone else pointed out in a season 3 topic scorpius says something about noranti that makes you think she is working for him.

Personally i think scorpius sent her to work out his agenda. Perhaps she isnt as "old" or as weak as we think. But probably in some way controlled by scorpius to keep John safe. Just like how the neural clone at first tried to keep john safe. HOwever, i havent seen most of season 4 so i could be wrong.

[ctheokas]

There are times when I think Noranti's in love with Crichton. Nevertheless, I don't think her intentions are evil.

[Harveylives]

I believe she is there to undermine John. The lakka thing, and in Twice shy the "spider-chick" said she was old and bitter. The whole bitter thing caught my attention for some reason. She gives me a bad vibe.

[vikingscaper]

I think that she is going to undermine John. She is just too much of a shadowy character and her true intentions have not yet been revealed but I think that she is going to do something nasty to Crichton.

[blueassbitch]

This was brought up in another thread, someone was wondering how Scorpious got of Arnesk in WWL. I'm wondering if granny dug him up and spit on him. I'm also wondering if she is the one that let the PK's know that they were there. I can't remeber what tipped them off to the crews whereabouts. Guess I'll have to go back and watch that ep. OH DARN. hehe.

[Clarsax]

I went with the working for Scorpius option, because really, what do we know about Noranti or where she comes from? She started off as one of the refugees from the command carrier, but what was she doing there in the first place? I think its quite possible she was under the employment of the PKs if not Scorpius directly. Throughout the fourth season she keeps John drugged, supposedly to keep him from thinking about Aeryn, but we only have her word to verify that this is all the drugs are doing to him. Whose to say long term doses of the drug weren't what revived Harvey?

I doubt Scorpius wanted Noranti just for her cooking skills. I haven't watched WWL in a while, so I can't remember everything, but it could be possible that Noranti did something to Scorpius to keep him alive either just before or after he was shot. Considering how she first appeared on Moya, I think its possible she's a spy planted there by Scorpius when he realized the carrier was going to explode. Maybe he forsaw the trouble this was going to get him into with Grayza and used Noranti as a way of dealing with John for the moment until he could get control over the situation and regain his status with the PKs. After that she would prove an even more useful spy as she had gained the trust of John and crew. I could just see her sitting down next to John someday and telling him in her kindest, most grandmotherly voice that the drugs she gave him contained trace amounts of poison and the only antidote lies with Scorpius.

[GARNET]

I remember when Pilot told about Noranti in her bio, he said she said that she can cure heat diliurm. Give Scorpius problem with heat which he fight daily, she may come in handly. It may have been the reason she was on the Commnd Carrier and why Scorpius wants her back. Remeber she came to Moya wqith all her supplies so she may have been working when the ship was destroyed and if she was in medical may have been the way she knows Aeryn was pregent. :rollin:

[Zantar]

Well when the fifth season comes and i think Virginia hey comes back as Zhaan she could probably figure out what Granny has been doing to Crichton, and how to stop it.

[Ozwald]

I think she is just a confused old women!!
:D :D :D

[Zantar]

Who thinks zhaan would really hate granny?

[Nicola]

Actually I had a problem with this poll, 'cause I don't think Norianti is working for anyone. She has her own agenda and whether it would be considered 'good' or 'bad' is entirely due to your perspective.:eek:

In other words ... none of the above

[blueassbitch]

Originally posted by Zantar
Who thinks zhaan would really hate granny?

I don't know if she'd hate her, but I definitely think she would not like some of her methods. Zhann would have never druged John to that extreme, and she never would have let Aeryn run away from her feelings like that.

[Ghostbuster]

I think Granny's just crazy. I mean, she can't be working for Scorpius IMO cuz she tried killing John in What Was Lost pt 1. And Scorpius was trying his best to keep John alive during Season 4. But then again...I dunno.

[trubador]

Curve ball time....

In Season 3, in the middle of "The Choice" when Aeryn is in looneyland, Rygel and Stark go down on the planet to search for her. There's a brief scene in which Stark walks over to a dead/dying/sleeping old lady, flips his mask, reads her mind, and finds out where Aeryn was last seen. To me, at any rate, that old lady looks suspiciously like Noranti without the third eye. Am I right, or am I just farbot (like the rest of those beings on that planet)?

[Zantar]

i dont have that episode...can anyone tell us?

[Clarsax]

I've watched the episode a few times, but I don't see the resemblance. I think it was just a dying old woman and not related to Noranti. Besides when Noranti and Rygel came to rescue Stark from Katrazi, he recognized what species she was but he didn't recognize her. If she had been the same woman I think Stark probably would have shown some sign that he knew her.

[cantrip]

Originally posted by Nicola
Actually I had a problem with this poll, 'cause I don't think Norianti is working for anyone. She has her own agenda and whether it would be considered 'good' or 'bad' is entirely due to your perspective.:eek:

In other words ... none of the above


I agree with Nicola---while we don't know what her motivations are, there isn't enough evidence one way or another to tell if she is frelling with Crichton or not. After all every character on the show has gotten Crichton into a lot of dren one time or another; course John often returns the favor... ;)


"Never swallow the dentic." --D'Argo

[Eiley]

I think Noranti is a decendant of John and Aeryn. She's travelled back in time to keep the two of them on course.

[trubador]

Now THAT'S what I call a theory! :D

[Zantar]

Well except for she seems to dislike aeryn extremely, and is not human or sebacean looking.

[cantrip]

In the beginning of "I Shrink, Therefore I Am", Noranti laughs at several of Johns Jokes. For example calling D'Argo "Captain James T. D'Argo" amongst others. There is another episode in which she seems to catch something Crichton says that only would be amusing to him or someone else familiar with Earth. It is very possible that she is kooky and just humoring him, on the other hand...

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"I don't know if I have the strength to miss again." --Aeryn
"I think I just have bad aim." --Crichton
[A Prefect Murder]

[Clarsax]

Maybe she just likes John and wants Aeryn out of the way so she can have him to herself. :D

[blueassbitch]

I also noticed that she was laughing at John's earth references. Another thing I noticed was that she brought up Aeryn on purpose to get John to use the lakka (which she didn't give to him untill after Scorpius was on board), and then started rubbing his shoulders. What's up with that?!

[Zantar]

I still think she is a scorpius agent. The lakka is probably a way to get john to cocentrate...at the expense of some of his human feelings which is something that has got him out of alot of trouble.

[marandken]

I agree with Eiley. I think that Granny is from the future... and is either a descendent of John/Aeryn or Aeryn herself.

Also, I don't know why but Noranti looks familiar - like I've seen her on another show/story/something. Any thoughts?

[Jude]

Originally posted by marandken
I agree with Eiley. I think that Granny is from the future... and is either a descendent of John/Aeryn or Aeryn herself.

I'm uncovinced....
You can tell 'Granny' doesn't like Aeryn, and she is helping John to forget her with the lakka *i think thats what its called*....
So if it was indeed a decendent of John/Aeryn or indeed Aeryn herself then surely she would be trying to keep them together as she wouldn't exist herself? :confused:

[marandken]

Time Travel... doesn't it just make you crazy? It fascinates me. :D

Well, it's actually wishful thinking. Noranti, if she is a descendent, could be trying to save everyone from a very sad life.

After thinking some more, tho, the writers do use time travel in some eps and actually have the crew intentionally or not, change the time line. For example: Different Destinations, and the ep where John lands on earth, but at the wrong time, etc. :confused:

BTW, does anyone watch Different Destinations and get the James T. Kirk letting Joan Collins get run over by the truck episode? I know that there seems to be a lot of accusations about other shows stealing FS plots, but.... I think it goes the other way. As it's been said: there's nothing new under the sun. (it's just how interesting it's presented) ;)

It's late, I ramble when I should go to sleep!

[Jude]

Thats a really good point...
Maybe Noranti is trying to save John and Aeryn from a painful relationship... I mean John and Aeryn aren't exactly good at keeping one together... maybe so they don't hurt their child...

Okay...I am rambling too... it would make a good fan-fic if I ever got around to it.

[jfranka]

And I really noticed several things. Watch this ep and see if I'm not frelled:

Noranti knows Scorpy extremely well. It's almost as if she has seen his Scarren side before; She has high respect for him. "Forgive me, Scorpious;" She handles him well.

Just rewatch this episode and watch Noranti carefully especially when she is interacting with Scorpious. It seems like a completely different interaction with others. (I.E. She had never begged forgiveness from anyone else that she had blown white powder on....)

[SaraD]

Originally posted by blueassbitch
Zhaan would have never druged John to that extreme, and she never would have let Aeryn run away from her feelings like that.

... and she certainly would have saved Aeryn's eyebrows from the wielder of the tweezers, whoever that was.

[Jude]

Originally posted by SaraD
... and she certainly would have saved Aeryn's eyebrows from the wielder of the tweezers, whoever that was.

:rollin: Yes certainly!!
Maybe they were burnt off in torture...

[janey_13]

Originally posted by marandken
I agree with Eiley. I think that Granny is from the future... and is either a descendent of John/Aeryn or Aeryn herself.

Also, I don't know why but Noranti looks familiar - like I've seen her on another show/story/something. Any thoughts?

The same actress (Melissa Jaffer) played the old Nilaam in Vitas Mortis.

[SaraD]

Originally posted by marandken
I agree with Eiley. I think that Granny is from the future... and is either a descendent of John/Aeryn or Aeryn herself.


Is the idea here that Aeryn grew a third eye in her old age?!?

[Jude]

Rethinking the idea...
She is in legue with Scorpy... and don't forget there was mention of J&A's kid having wormhole knowlege (if I remember)...
Prahaps she will hand their kid over to scorpy...

[Zantar]

I thought you didnt believe she was in leageu with scorpy...why the change of heart?

[Jude]

Originally posted by Zantar
I thought you didnt believe she was in leageu with scorpy...why the change of heart?

Its the way she acts around him compared to the rest of the crew...I dunno, I'm still pondering on the idea at the moment!

[Zantar]

Originally posted by Jude
Its the way she acts around him compared to the rest of the crew...I dunno, I'm still pondering on the idea at the moment!

Im pretty sure she is a scorpy spy. Maybe not willingly, but that seems to be the only explanation that makes any sense.

[pyroturtle]

hmmm, i kinda like the time travel angle personally...as for who she's working for...everyone!
but i do think there's something scorpy hasn't told anyone, and only she knows...maybe she's a scorpy kid!

[Judith]

This is a really interesting poll. The only reason I didn't vote...is because, while I do think there is definately something shady about Noranti...I'm not smart enough to figure what or why that is. But this has given me some things to think about...maybe I should rewatch all of season four!

[Devnull]

I could never stand the old woman... Most annoying character on Farscape... ever. I hope they get rid of her in the first 5 minutes of the miniseries.

[JrMissToughChick]

I never liked her she is the only Moyan I can say that about. And Scorpy was a moyan. she's a scorpy spy my vote

Much Love,
~JrMTC~

[NebariNookiee]

I dropped this on another thread, but thought I should drop it here too.

I've always thought of Noranti as sort of the "Yoda" of the group. When we first see Yoda in “Empire Strikes Back” we perceive him as this weird little green elf dude who speaks funny and seems to be a bit of comic relief. Later we come to realize that he is one of the baddest mofo Jedi’s around. I think Noranti’s character arch may turn out the same way – not that she’s a Jedi or anything like that, but that she is so much more than is revealed. I don’t think she’s evil in the slightest. She seems to be more of a neutral character that only becomes proactive to maintain a sort of universal balance. Notice at any given moment, she bounces between goofy old woman to mystic sage. She’s a deep character, like Rygel is a very multi-layered character. She’s not black & white, but her motives are her own and that gives her that mystic and mystery.

[Journeyer]

Noranti is in my opinion quite interesting, she may not be bad or working for any of the 'bad' forces of the universe.. however, her methods are questionable..

But, you're all forgetting one thing; when she tried to 'kill' JC she only wanted the PKs to believe he was dead, somehow she seemed to know he would survive the dive/fall/(whichever) - she was not surprised to find that he survived. Hmm, maybe she is working for Scorpy after all?..



Bite my leg and call me a rabbit...

[pulsarnebula]

She has a lot of (probably)nice drugs that she makes with her own bodyfluids!
John didnt seem to mind.
Like the coin toss that he finds out that she is pregnant from him
she is gone and Moya sucked into a wormhole.
That was a good cliffhanger they are very good in cliffhangers!

[Jeff O'Connor]

I actually thought she looked vaguely, in a very dementedly strang way, like the creatures that neutralized John and Aeryn. Again... a very, very strange way.

[pulsarnebula]

I don´t think she looks like the aliens that shot them.
If you mean the last episode Bad timing.
At the bottom is a picture of it.
Look and see she is old but nothing like these guys.
Greetings Pulsarnebula.

[Jeff O'Connor]

Yeah, you're right, I was off... way off. Gotta bare in mind the only time I've seen "Bad Timing" thus far was when I had just started watching the series two or three episodes prior... my memory is foggy and I was still trying to catch up with what exactly was going on back then anyway.

[Harveylives]

Originally posted by Zantar
Well when the fifth season comes and i think Virginia hey comes back as Zhaan she could probably figure out what Granny has been doing to Crichton, and how to stop it.


Unless zhaan rematerialized as the old woman. Just something that crossed my mind.

[Dangermousie]

I dislike Noranti.

I don't know if she is working for Scorpy (there is something behind his particular interest in her in BT) or is just a drug-crazy hippie lady, but I dislike her.

Why?

Her doddering Granny demeanor lets her get away with a lot of actions that other Moyans never could get away.

I also find her "mess with you first, for your own good, ask later" policy horrendous.

She is awfully high-and-mighty this way. Whatever you think of the whole lakka scenario (I think it was very wrong on her part to try to drug him trhough his problems), at least she asked Crichton first. She usually doesn't. She pushes Crichton of a cliff in WWL, she keeps blowing dust at all and sundry (most notably at John in WWL) without even asking.

[Cyber-Raga]

I disliked her at first, but somehow I got to like her. She helped on several occasions, but also caused a lot of trouble. I don't know exactly why she was added to the cast (maybe they just needed someone to get the medical work done or..., who knows).

Was she working for Scorpi? Anything is possible, but I somehow doubt it

[Moya's Starburst]

She only let Crichton take the drugs so he could focas she thought that he was distracted by his relationship with Aeryn, on the other hand, She thought she'd tell John about her being preggers so he'll give her space.She said so.Only i feel she has insight about the crew that they don't notice, so she goes about it mysteriously she is rather batty.She can't be the baddie cos she only tried to help, and she grew on me at first i didn't like her.

[Nicola]

I really liked Noranti. She always knows far more than she should.

The laka - as distressing as that stuff was - also seemed to work as a conduit to John's abilities to see/travel wormholes. And Noranti always did know way more about wormholes than she should.

I think Noranti was working for the Ancients. Remember what Einstein said?

John: So modify more of your people and send them over.
Einstein: The endeavor - is in hand. Requires time for metamorphosis.

Noranti isn't an Ancient (probably) but I do think she was working for them. If you watch her third eye - see when it glows and what colour it is - there is quite a correlation to notable events.

Noranti is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. And it is never wise to underestimate her.

[poundpuppy29]

I like her I think she was better than Jool who annoyed me. I think she was prisoner who escaped.

[zahncrelnik]

I kind of like Noranti and I wish that we could learn more about her as we may have if the show had not been forced to end prematurely. Whatever you think of Noranti, she always mixed things up and kept things interesting.


As for the possibility of Noranti being an escaped prisoner: that would be like The Ransom of Red Chief --who would want Noranti around if they had a choice? That is a funny thought. If anyone had kidnapped her do you think John, Aeryn,
D'Argo, even Chiana would pay any kind of ransom to get Noranti back? More likely pay the kidnappers to keep her.
That said, I do still think that Noranti is an interesting character.

[Nicola]

I don't think anyone would have been able to keep Noranti a prisioner even if they wanted. Noranti does exactly what Noranti wants, and she has the ability to ensure that no-one can gainsay her when she sets her mind to something.

On the other hand - trying to figure out what Noranti has set her mind to is an exercise in frustration because sometimes I think she loses track of what she is doing. But still - she seems to consistently get where she is going, and accomplish what she intended. I would never underestimate a character who is so successful at achieving her goals and so successful at getting people to underestimate her. :)

[Mike@Pilots Chamber]

Wow, I haven't replied to this topic?

Anyhoo, SPOILERS FOR ANYONE WHO CARES!

Back when Noranti was introduced at the end of season 3 I was completely confused by her. She turns up on Moya randomly, giving John all these visions and then, at the end, decides that Jool's ear may be a particularly good snack.

Of course in season 4 we find out that she's a bumbling old woman, but with good intentions. She has no reason really to stay on Moya other than that she likes the company and wants to help. Of course her methods of helping frequently involve drugs and stripping (from the outside not a bad combination, until the drugs wear off and the stripping continues) but nonetheless she continues to help, whether the crew want her to or not (and whether they still dare to open their eyes)!

[zahncrelnik]

I really think that there was some purpose for Noranti, they just didn't have a
chance to reveal enough about her. Despite the appearance of bumbling or
of losing track of what she was doing, I get a sense of a lot more behind her
behaviour. Noranti knew a lot more than she ever let on.