Winona's Origins...

[PkTechSquirrel]

Sorry if this has been discovered and discussed, I've been so busy with school that I haven't been able to check the boards as frequently.

IMDB says that Winona was in episode 17.1 which is the game (They say the game fits between Through The Looking Glass and Nerve). According to them, Crichton finds the gun in the trunk of a car and then names it.
Anyone else have any enlightenment on the subject?


http://www.imdb.com/Trivia?0322256

[fandom]

The first time he mentions Winona in the series is in 'A clockwork nebari', something like 'Winona has been very reliable, it is not her fault she jammed'.

Considering that because of the jamming he gets nailed by the Nebari, it is hard to see why he so attached to 'her'.

Anyway, if he had got Winona in the first season, wouldn't he have used to kill the scarran in Won't get fooled again?

[Breaker]

I'm pretty sure there have been several versions of Winona, all being the same brand of pulse pistol.

[ichinen]

I am sure somebody knows, but I can't remember when the whole "Winona" thing started. Good point about "Won't get fooled again".

I don't know about there being many different Winona's, he seems really partial to that gun. Remember how happy he was to get it back after the other Crichton died. And whenever he has to use another gun besides Winona and it fails him he always says that Winona would not have done that. Although apparantly that might not be the case.

[Zantar]

I have the whole season 1 on dvd and i was conciously watching for him to use winona. Doesnt appear. It must come up sometime after wont get fooled again. As he would never just throw away winona like that..

[Sawyer's Miller]

Off the top of my head, at the tail end of season 2 he says to the Tavloid (sorry Tavlek) "Meet Winona" and knocks the frellnik over the head with her...

I'm fairly certain he uses that name before then though. A good excuse to watch some more episodes! Pass the crackers...

[the_cadpig]

Nope...fandom is right.

"A Clockwork Nebari" is the first time Winona is mentioned.

And I seem to remember reading or hearing that Ben named the pistol Winona because the Nebari dude in that episode reminded him of Johnny Depp in Edward Scissorhands. Name association and all that. It just came out during filming and it stuck. (my memory's a little fuzzy on this) But I remember it came up during the whole 'Winona' or 'Wynona'? debate years ago.

~cp

[grinner]

Yes... it was in reference to the Nebari looking like Edward Scissorhands. It was discussed in the Winona/Wynona debate. There are/were some threads about this on FMD somewhere.

[the_cadpig]

Thanks grinner. :)

~cp

[Perfect_Tommy]

I think the whole thing about it showing up so soon in the show in the trivia question is that it's mentioned in the game. Honestly, the game was pretty hard to stomach, and I'm a rabid fan. So the game messes up the whole Farscape universe, it folds in on itself due to the time and spacial glitch, hench why the show got cancelled....

Seriously, the game was almost that bad :P I hope that helps some in the whole debate.

[Zantar]

elaborate. How and where d oyo ufind it in the game?

[PkTechSquirrel]

According to the IMDB site, Crichton finds the gun in the trunk of a car. I don't know which point this is in the game, but I'm sure you could look it up.

[Maveric]

i was just wondering, do pulse pistols have triggers? if not then how are they fired... Pulse pistols have something like a clip that contains that special oil from that special root ( i forgot offhand) and a clip is good for 500-600 shots? correct? could someone explain it more in detail for me please...
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[Zantar]

tannat root btw. And yes they have triggers...how else would they shoot them?

[Maveric]

Originally posted by Zantar
tannat root btw. And yes they have triggers...how else would they shoot them?

i mean, the triggers don't seem visable. i don't own a real prop pulse pistol and i can't visably (sp?) see a trigger from the video stills or pictures of pulse pistols...
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[Perfect_Tommy]

Originally posted by Zantar
And yes they have triggers...how else would they shoot them?

Mind bullets????

elaborate. How and where d oyo ufind it in the game?

You don't 'find' it in the game that I remember, but he has it and refers to it as Winona when he crashes Aeryn's prowler on the planet. I wasn't a big fan and actually never finished it.

[Zantar]

I have a farscape background that quite clearly shows john fingering the trigger.

[Patrel Rushlock]

Clockwork Nebari was the first time he called it "Winona" as far as I remember. Though I always though he got her at when escaping Scorpy's research base, when the team was escaping, and Gilena (sp?) dies. And that he just never named that gun until "Clockwork Nebari". Just my theory though.

[Silk]

I've never understood. Chakan oil comes from tannot root. Why don't they call it tannot oil?

[witchdoctor]

Originally posted by fandom
The first time he mentions Winona in the series is in 'A clockwork nebari', something like 'Winona has been very reliable, it is not her fault she jammed'.

Considering that because of the jamming he gets nailed by the Nebari, it is hard to see why he so attached to 'her'.

Anyway, if he had got Winona in the first season, wouldn't he have used to kill the scarran in Won't get fooled again?

The only problem with John having used Winona to kill the Scarran in Won't Get Fooled Again is that he set the gun to overload or something like that, stuck it in the Scarran's mouth and let it explode, bypassing the thick Scarran skin. So if it were Winona, it would have been blown up.

[NebariNookiee]

Chakan oil comes from tannot root. Why don't they call it tannot oil?
It may be that the tannot root isn't the only thing that makes Chakan Oil. This is just an assumption of course.

And I never thought the Nebari from ACN looked like Edward Scissorshands – I always thought he looked more like Matt LeBlanc.

I can just see him walking up to Chiana and saying "How you doin?":rollin:

[witchdoctor]

Originally posted by Silk
I've never understood. Chakan oil comes from tannot root. Why don't they call it tannot oil?

Maybe Chakan was the scientist or engineer that came up with the process to convert tannot root into chakan oil. Or the species that first used it for weapons (assuming it wasn't peacekeepers). Was the origin of Chakan oil a secret? If so, maybe the name change was to conceal the source. Maybe a chakan was the first gun or device to use the oil for a power source. None of this is from any episode, just pure speculation, but there are lots of wierd unlogical reasons why things get particular names. Just ideas.

BTW, wasn't tannot leaf the thing needed to preserve the life of the mummy in the 1930's Boris Karloff mummy movies? Or maybe it was tanna leaf?

[MournsZhaan]

Originally posted by Silk
I've never understood. Chakan oil comes from tannot root. Why don't they call it tannot oil?

Probably because if they had called it tannot oil then that would have given away a major plot point in TGIFA too early in the story. :ewink:

Chris

[Silk]

Wow. I generated all this discussion? I feel loved!:rollin:

[Zantar]

we are here to please.

Actually thats not true. Everyone else is here to please. Im here to develop a virus to conver the unbelievers of the world to the farscape cause. oh and yes i like cats. :kitty:

[JrMissToughChick]

I just wanted to bump the last thread don't be mad.

~JrMTC~

[tracyhill]

Winona is found in the PC Game. She was hidden in a "Drop Box". It is quite interesting really because Ben does all his lines in the game and it seems hust like an episode from the telly except it is graphics.

Tracy

[ranger1]

the prop pulse pistols are all a solid piece of (whatever they're made out of). i've seen one on a fan at Capricon in chicago last year (actually, Jan. 2003). they have a trigger carved into them.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Actually, I have a Creation pulse pistol replica (yeah I paid a buttload for it!) and there is NO trigger on it at all. This is made to the same specs as the actual props by craftsman in New Zealand. Don't believe me? Take a look at this. www.geocities.com/almostahermit/fspulsepistol That's my site and you can clearly see that there is no "conventional" trigger. I've even done freeze frames on video and DVD to see if there was a trigger, and NOPE. The art design images I've seen don't show a trigger either. This is one of those little things that's always bothered me. Right up there with the disappearance of the khaki's and the lack of a toilet.

What I do think though, is that the little "bump" on the back of the handgrip is the actual trigger. You activate the gun by squeezing the handgrip as opposed to the traditional trigger mechanism we all know.

Oh, and I'm not sure where "Winona" originated, but I do know that it's the same pulse pistol he's used for a while. Kinda like a security blanket.

[knight5923]

I could be wrong, but near the end of episode 118 (a bug's life) Crichton picks up Captain Larraq's pulse pistol, and at no point in that episode do they show him getting rid of it in any way. Is it possible that that was what would come to be known as Winona? Perhaps it doesn't appear again until A Clockwork Nebari because he's inexperienced with it or something along those lines. Just a theory

[NebariNookiee]

I can answer why the prop pistols have no trigger – One isn’t needed. Technically all the actor has to do is make the motion of a kickback and the animators add the effects. A trigger isn’t needed for this since it’s the actor’s movement that is used as a cue. Hollywood discovered a long time ago that actors are a goofy bunch and like to play even when they shouldn’t. Even the most hardboiled and professional actors go a little silly when you put a laser gun in their hands.

A funny little anecdote – during production of the Disney film “The Black Hole” the prop makers had put little LEDs in the tips of the guns for the animators to use as a cue. The problem was that the actors were shooting each other in the back of the head during filming when no firefight was taking place. The animators had to painstakingly animate the lights out of the shots.

I have to point out a few things about Winona and the timeline – John didn’t start carrying a pulse pistol until “A Bug’s Life.” And even then I think he only intended for it to be part of his disguise. Of course he’d have been a complete moron had he gone to the Gammak base without one – so after the events of Nerve and The Hidden Memory he took to wearing the pistol at his side from then on out. It is possible that he may have gone through a few pistols (obvious in Won’t Get Fooled Again) before becoming partial to one he dubbed Winona.

Personally I think his personalizing the pistol goes a bit deeper than the old tradition of folks naming inanimate objects (like naming your car “Betsy” or something) To me it feels like a natural reaction to the traumatic events he’s gone through. He personalized his gun as a way of making himself feel safer and more protected. It gives the gun personality (at least in John’s mind). It’s his way of gaining confidence and strength in the face of danger by feeling he has someone (or something) watching his back. Remember back before the events of Nerve/Memory, he never wore a gun at his side (except for the time I mentioned before) and was always the first to try and figure out a peaceful solution. Afterwards he would pull that gun at the slightest hint of danger. Being tortured has a way of changing people. Most of the crew are perfect examples of this – Rygel hording food and hiding possessions, John’s hair trigger, Aeryn’s emotional release (after the events of “Prayer”) those personality quirks can be traced back to the traumatic events that they experienced.

Edited to say: I just took a gander at the episode and I'm rather surprised to see John without a pistol strapped to his hip. Of course I don't think I ever saw Crais with one while in command either so it may not be standard for a captain to wear one -- since everyone else would be regardless.

[Nicola]

I have to point out a few things about Winona and the timeline – John didn’t start carrying a pulse pistol until “A Bug’s Life.” And even then I think he only intended for it to be part of his disguise. Of course he’d have been a complete moron had he gone to the Gammak base without one – so after the events of Nerve and The Hidden Memory he took to wearing the pistol at his side from then on out. It is possible that he may have gone through a few pistols (obvious in Won’t Get Fooled Again) before becoming partial to one he dubbed Winona.

[respectfully snipped]

Edited to say: I just took a gander at the episode and I'm rather surprised to see John without a pistol strapped to his hip. Of course I don't think I ever saw Crais with one while in command either so it may not be standard for a captain to wear one -- since everyone else would be regardless.

Yes I was going to mention that John did not wear a pulse pistol in this episode. He does however pick up Larraq's when he goes to chase Larraq after Aeryn was knifed. It is, actually, a very symbolic/significant moment. Up to this point in the series, Crichton had never killed any sentient being. Never.

But in ABL not only do we see Crichton pick up Larraq's pulse pistol (symbolic in that it belonged to a PK Commando) but we also see Crichton kill. He killed Larraq AND the sentient bug that was inhabiting Larraq's body. (He also killed Hassan, but I give him a pass on that because the bug did the murder - not Crichton.)

Winona is an enormously symbolic prop. Weapons are often in literature used as a phallic symbol and (as usual) Farscape takes this trope and extends it further - gives it their own particular spin. Winona is not just Crichton's phallic symbol - she is also symbolically linked to Aeryn. Winona's is not just John's physical desire, but also symbolises the direction of the physical desire.

In addition (and because both Aeryn and Winona are more than just sex objects) John relies on both PK Weapons to protect him in the UTs. Everytime Winona misfires (A Clockwork Nebari comes to mind here) or is lost, you can expect that Aeryn's behaviour will in some way reflect that situation.

Occasionally Crichton is deprived of his weapon (Look at the Princess, Green Eyed Monster, What Was Lost and Scratch n'Sniff) and all storylines had Crichton losing or otherwise without Aeryn.

In What Was Lost, Crichton found himself in a situation where he had to replace Winona with a substitute pulse pistol. Both substitute pulse pistols misfire (reflecting Crichton's repeated rape at the hands of Grayza) and it is only when Crichton finally regains Winona (by jumping off a cliff into unchartered waters) does he regain direction of his sexual activity. Aeryn returns soon after.

Winona symbolises Aeryn - if you watch the series for certain symbolic props (Winona, chessboard, wormhole ball, PK Symbol, stars) the whole show becomes richer and more meaningful. Also more beautiful.

Have I mentioned recently how impressed I am with the level of storytelling in Farscape? I really, really am. :)

[Mendax]

According to the IMDB site, Crichton finds the gun in the trunk of a car. I don't know which point this is in the game, but I'm sure you could look it up.

I realize this is a five year old post and no one cares at this point, but just for clarification; it's a 'trunk' more like a treasure chest not in a car.