Anyone else watching Carnivale?

[ilianexsi]

Is anybody else following Carnivale on HBO? I missed the first episode, but was hooked as soon as I saw the second.... very strange and weird and compelling. So many little details that probably have deeper meanings..... I've been totally sucked in by it, can't wait for the next episode.

[LiLOrion]

I THINK I saw the first episode. Exactly how many are there in this mini-series?

Everytime I go to watch what I think is another ep, its the same ep I watched already. So, until I can figure out when the new eps come on, I'm just giving up. :)

From what I saw it wasnt too bad. If it was the first ep I saw that would explain the slowness as they always tend to be slow until they give you some background and start building up characters.

[ilianexsi]

There are going to be 12 episodes altogether. I know what you mean, I saw episode 2 about three times. I finally saw a new episode last night, it came on right after The Sopranos. I finally looked up the website for the show on HBO.com, and it gives some background stuff.

[Sunderflame]

I'm watching it....only caught the tail end of it last night...gona watch it tonite since Hbo runs it on Monday to....so I get it then...I like the show It is definetly going be one of those shows that start off a littls slow and the bam...can't wait to see what happened last night...I like strange....

[Boron]

I've been watching it, and I think it will be a good one. Caught the 3rd ep last night, and it's getting more interesting as it goes along.


:cool: :aok: :freak2: :noevil:

[ilianexsi]

Does anybody else know what the thing was that was hanging on the trailer door at the end of episode 2? I'm sure it was something significant, but I couldn't make out what it was.

[Sunderflame]

I couldn't make it out either, where ever they are headed it's toward some real evil....I gather that...to give life you have to take it from something else....perhaps it was something that was taken from that guy with no arms...or a fresh bunch of vegetables that the life was drained out....who knwow...?

[sunshiner]

I caught ep 3 tonight and can say I'm totally hooked. Enough twists and turns in the story telling to keep it interesting, but not too far out there that it's too weird.

I like how the story of the priest and Hawkins are separate lines so far, although they are similiar enough to know somehow they will mingle.

[ilianexsi]

Yeah, the preacher- Brother Justin?- is a fascinating character.... right on the line between good and evil. Not a guy you'd want to cross. Can't wait to see what happens when he and Ben finally meet.... all I know is, I wouldn't want to be in the crossfire.

[Sunderflame]

I wonder what deep dark secret she may harbor, Justin defintly is getting weirder and stronger as the story goes on. I think Ben is the good guy...
I'd really liked to know the deal with the blind guy, he seems very mysterious and drinks alot abcence....an opium dirivtive.. they use to use in the old days....to get buzzed...and who is the man the carny is working for.....?

[sunshiner]

Who is Management?

That's what I'd like to know.

There's something about the sister that creeps me out. There's got to be a story there somewhere.

[Sunderflame]

Yeah everytime they do something or a descion is made they always refer to management....also isn't management always refered to a (he) also...first they are going north and everyone is complaining .....now they are going south and now everyone seems worried....pretty wierd....I can't wait to see next weeks..

[ilianexsi]

I wonder how far into the series it'll get before we finally find out who Management is? Whoever it is, Management seems to be arranging everything to get Ben to a particular place and time... the carnival is almost of secondary importance. It really makes me wish I hadn't missed the first episode.

I'll be very interested to see how things change between Ben and the others when he uses his talent again, and they find out it's for real.

In other news (Minor Thrills Dept.) this is my 100th post. Yaay! :D

[AnnieBW]

Unfortunately, the first three episodes were re-run tonight (Friday). I'm sure that they'll re-run them again, though.

I started watching it for Clancy Brown, who plays Brother Justin. I'm a big fan of his from waaaay back. But I'm also a Twin Peaks freak, and this is in the same style. Between Carnivale and Angel, they almost replace Farscape.

If you want to talk more about Carnivale, come on over to CarnivaleHBO@yahoogroups.com. We have over 800 people on there, including some crew members. I believe that we have the exec producer David Knaupf lurking, as well as a few cast members.

- Annie

[AnnieBW]

Originally posted by ilianexsi
Does anybody else know what the thing was that was hanging on the trailer door at the end of episode 2? I'm sure it was something significant, but I couldn't make out what it was.

It was the hat that the bear in Ben's dream was wearing. The word on it was in Russian, and it was "Bruno". Probably the bear's name. Dancing bears are a common feature in Russian circuses, however, they're usually named "Misha".

- Annie

[ilianexsi]

The bear's hat?! Ah. Thanks! Though knowing that doesn't make things any more clear.... which is just what the producers want, I'm sure!

[shamecube]

I just watched the third ep. It's at turns fascinating and frustrating. I really want to like this show. I mean, really, really, really.

The Bad: At times, it takes itself too seriously and being hit over the head with symbolism and dream sequences annoys me. And what's with the 5 minute, slo-mo, instrumental sequence of ep 3? The pacing is erratic, the characters slide in and out of character to suit the story and the whole thing looks as if it's to ultimately be much ado about nothing. I'm having a hard time caring about anyone or anything going on. Unless MGMT turns out to be Cthulu, I'm going to be disappointed. The acting is at turns par and subpar. I'm not drawn in even though I really, really want to be. Even the Dolby Digital 5.1 isn't doing the trick. The whole thing feels staged and in a way, that's the way it should feel. I never get the idea that these people are really working in a carnival, but actors playing people who are working in a carnival. The scenes between Clea Duvall and her mother are just silly. They could be creepy, but Clea is playing this role all wrong as a spoiled brat. Even Ben Hawkins seems put out to do anything for the carnival. Dude, you'd be in jail if it wasn't for them, just heal the damn people ok? And the scene where Cela stops the car and Ben gets out and they sit there for hour looking at eachother was just asinine. Conflict for the sake of conflict is not conflict. All of them should be extremely grateful just to have a job and food in their belly. Nothing really changes from scene to scene and at the end of first three eps we know what we all have easily guessed.

The Good: It's gorgeous. It feels as if this is taking place in the time it is supposed to. Everyone looks suitably dirty, hungry, tired and ambitious. The music is incredible, thanks to an infusion of soul from former Prince and the Revolution songwriters Wendy and Lisa. The sound is great. The 5.1 mix is used to full effect with wind blowing around you, rain falling on you and placing you in the middle of hand-clapping crowds. The sound is the best part of this show.

I've got about 2 more eps in me before I consider this a waste of time.

[vhsiv]

Originally posted by shamecube
The Bad: <snip> Even Ben Hawkins seems put out to do anything for the carnival. Dude, you'd be in jail if it wasn't for them, just heal the damn people ok? And the scene where Cela stops the car and Ben gets out and they sit there for hour looking at eachother was just asinine. Conflict for the sake of conflict is not conflict. All of them should be extremely grateful just to have a job and food in their belly. Shame, I think that just about sums it up. Granted, it's all beautifully shot, but sometimes you just gotta wonder... though it seems to get richer and richer each time I watch it - I'm on my 3rd or 4th viewing (making tapes and such) and I'm starting to wonder if t's not all about the cinematography: The Toulouse-Lautrec/Hopperesque lighting effects, the long tracking shots and low-angle dolley shots. All of the flashbacks, visions and stuff that you just said "Huh?" to, the first time you saw them seem to take on more value in subsequent viewings.

It really makes me wonder what the storyboards look like, and if this thing started out as a graphic novel. Does anyone know what the writer's background is? I can't quite say that I've seen such a *visually oriented* show broadcast on television before. A LOT more stuff turns up in the visuals, than turns up in the behavior of the characters or their dialogue.

Just my $.02...

But I agree, the characters should be a bit more grateful to have both jobs and food in their mouths. Maybe the cast ought to have all been European Gypsies or something. I wonder if they'll turn into the Donner party once winter hits...
________
Ferrari F2001 (http://www.ferrari-wiki.com/wiki/Ferrari_F2001)

[fermicat]

Well. Just finished watching episodes 2 and 3 for the first time (I taped them previously but didn't have time to watch until today). I agree with some of the earlier comments, but I am not ready to give up on it just yet. The cinematography really is excellent art. They should get an award in that category if none else.

I am curious about the mystery they are slowly unravelling - about Ben's mother and her connection to Carnivale. I am also quite curious about the management and how Justin and Ben will be related (other than their shared visions). So I will stay tuned for that.

[shamecube]

I must preface this by saying I wanted to like this series so very, very, very, very much. Perhaps that colors my disappointment at it being so very, very, very, dull. I've seen television that crackles with excitement, wit, mystery and drama. The intense character studies that are Six Feet Under and The Sopranos. The edge of your seat thrill-ride of Farscape. The character-driven comedy of Sex and the City. The atmospheric Twin Peaks. But Carnivale shares nothing with these. If anything, it appears to be as desperate as a migrant worker, feeding off the scraps of other shows that came before it. Of course, it looks incredible, but so does cubic zirconia. And like CZ, Carnivale mimics something of much better quality.

After the fourth episode, I am no closer to liking it more. In fact, it's pissing me off. I feel like I have been suckered into buying something that I never wanted.

The fact that Ben took a nap during a dirt storm only served to further the plot and not because he was sleepy. This could have easily been rectified by having him yawn or argue with the blind man that he was sleepy and didn't want to go on some damn trip. Here we have another "stop the car!" event. I don't know if this happens every episode, but it is getting to be a tradition and tedious. Ben's bitchiness is getting tedious. Dude, you have a gift to heal people and yourself.

I almost laughed when Jonesy pulled back the curtain to find there was nothing there. They've been leading up to that since the first episode. For those who thought MGMT was going to be something cool, I am sorry. Maybe Samson did something with MGMT or maybe MGMT is dead and Samson just pretends that...oh who cares. This scene was a deal-breaker.

Someone please get Michael J. Anderson some acting lessons. He plays Samson in broad comical strokes when it's completely unecessary. He's all but looking at the camera. Yes, he's a dwarf, but he damn near ruins every scene he's in, as does Bearded Lady. A little goes a long way in a show like this. The story is fantastic enough without everyone overacting. In fact, when we're not being hit over the head with symbolism, we're being force-fed character traits that were non-existent just moments before. I was not surprised when Gabriel Mann screwed Clea Duvall and she started crying, but my significant other said: "I thought she wanted to get laid." I said: "The tears are to show that she doesn't want to get laid so much as to have a baby." "Then why doesn't she just f**k the Ben boy?" he asked. And I said, "It doesn't suit the plot." However, it would have provided much more drama had she just chosen Ben to be the sperm donor. Imagine the mind games, the arguments, the chaos, or just the incredible nature of having the son of a god.

Brother Justin and his foibles are pretty hilarious. Of course the building was going to get burned down with children inside of it. All of the signs were there. And the only thing tragic about it was the fact that the audience figured it out before Bro-Jo got it. We've had vomiting coins, blood rain, an exploding diner, a trip through time and an inflicted heart murmur. What's next? Riders on the storm?

The sound continues to be excellent. I truly felt like my living room was about to blow away.

There is absolutely nothing going on in this series except that people are getting screwed over by carnies. And those people are us.

[GARNET]

Maybe Homer Simspons can come in and get the better of them like he did after they steal his house. Might add some humor.:smokin: :smokin: :lizard:

[stellar]

Originally posted by shamecube
There is absolutely nothing going on in this series except that people are getting screwed over by carnies. And those people are us.

I absolutely agree with shamecube. I wanted to like this series and I still want to like it. My general feeling is that this show is absolutely not living up to its potential. The premise is great, the cast is well chosen (their direction is lacking), the arc is substantial, but the writing and episode plots are muted. There's no reason to have bottle shows in a 12-episode run and last night's episode felt like a bottle show.

I'll continue to watch, because I don't want to miss out on the moment when this show does live up to its potential, even if its only for a fraction of an episode... it should be worth watching.

Hopefully I won't feel at the end of this show like I do now, which is suckered.

- Stellar

[shamecube]

Spoilers and adult content
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A total waste of talent, money and dust, I will not be watching any more eps of Carnivále because I have more important things to do with my time like sit and watch a lava lamp. Unlike Carnivále, my lava lamp is unpredictable and and illuminating. And it doesn't insult my intelligence. Even Carnivale fanboys like my boyfriend and my best friend were at a loss to describe their intense disappointment over last nights episode "Babylon".

One of the first rules of writing is that every scene must show a positive or negative change. Sure, great writers can bend the rules, but the best stuff adheres to this simple rule. If nothing changes, then you really don't need the scene. In the whole hour of Babylon, only the last scene was necessary. Everything else was boring filler where the actors walked around posing, preening, and saying stuff that was out of character. For a series that prides itself on characterization, the writers sure are taking liberties with putting words into the characters mouths. And it's not even remotely interesting.

Up until this point there has been virtually no adult content, TPTB decided to fill up this one with unecessary beaver shots and flopping titties. It's very sad that when the best line of a series is "One of my titties is alot bigger than the other." It's also sad when TPTB fill up a full 12 minutes of show time with a boy holding a magic zippo that doesn't run out for 12 hours, nor does it get hot. The people on Carnivale's BB are so desperate for something to happen, they theorize that the long drawn-out segment of Ben's is just a dream. They also are tittering about Ben raising Dora Mae from the dead. So even when something does happen in this show it doesn't really happen. Even if he doesn't revive her, she'll still be an uninteresting plot point that was never fully realized.

Some of the crew members haven't been paid since "Milfay" as per Jonesy. However, didn't they just have a windfall when they held a revival? As per their logic, revivals would make more money than a carnival, but then the show would have to be renamed Revivále. Here we have them inexplicably setting up in the middle of nowhere to go out and spend what little cash they do have on a night of drinking. So the show lumbers along as we wait for something to happen. And it does, finally. But as I was trying to figure out if Dora Mae hung herself or if she was lynched, I felt as if this was a cheap way to ratchet up the tension.

When the damn thing was over, I didn't even want to watch the previews of the next show. All style and no substance, Carnivále ends its fifth episode with a murder thrown in just to give the characters something to do next week that makes them no better than the people that killed Dora Mae.

Apparently, this show is for people who have never seen other shows with great writing. Further proof of this is HBO's highly touted "Carnie Lingo" section on their website. For those who couldn't figure out that "Goddamned sewer pipe, can't hold his hooch no more" means that he can't handle acohol or that "I'm just going to get blotto" means I am going to get drunk, then this show is not for them anyway. Actually, I don't know who this show is for other than the indulgence of creator Daniel Knauf and the shows writers and directors.

An interview with the show's writers on HBO's website has this to say:

HBO: What do you think it's going to take to get people hooked on the show-- what do you think will be the thing that really draws people into Carnivàle?

DAWN PRESTWICH: I think it really goes to the characters and the magic. I think that's the combination. You need characters that you haven't really seen before, but that are totally relatable. And the fact that there is this incredible magic to the show.

Forgive me Dawn, but I have seem characters like this before.


NICOLE YORKIN: I'll just add that there is nothing like it on television. You know, it's not a cop show, it's not a lawyer show, and it's not a medical show. And there's not a dead body that's being examined. Maybe people will be hungry for that.


Nicole, there was nothing like Fish Police on TV, either.


DAWN PRESTWICH: As far as the writing goes for us, it is by far the most unique, most exciting show that we've ever written on. It's also the hardest, but I think it's really worthwhile.


And the last thing you worked on was Max Bickford, so you didn't have far to go.


HBO: Why is it the hardest?

NICOLE YORKIN: It really stretches all of your writerly muscles, because there is not your typical franchise. There is not that lawyer franchise, you know, we don't go to court every week, or go into the operating room. So there's an open playing field. Dan has created this template for the most creative type of writing you can imagine; we're able to pretty much do whatever we can think of doing.


Then do something interesting for God's sake. Excite me, intrigue me or at least give me something to masturbate to.


And yet, since it is serialized, there are threads that we have to pick up each week, and we can't drop a stitch.


But the stiches are falling like a stripper's clothes on this show.

These people are out of touch to the degree that when they are writing shit, they think it's gold. And if this is supposed to be really creative stuff, then apparently I am way more intelligent than is healthy.

Some people say that the payoff is going to be huge, but I say if it takes five episodes to make you care about the characters, then you're doing it wrong. Skilled writers have you in the first five minutes. It takes an especially bad kind of writer to take five hours and still not have you caring about the characters or what's going on. The kind that only comes along once in a generation.

So goodbye, carnies. Swindle me once, shame on you. Swindle me 5 times, shame on me.

[stellar]

Ditto.

[AnnieBW]

Hey, it's a free country. Or is it? I haven't read the newspaper yet today. If you don't like it, there's a little thing called a remote. Use it. Don't waste your time and everyone else's bitching about a disappointing show. And don't insult the intelligence of other people who are watching the show. Save that dren for the "Scare Tactics" list on the DOM.

Personally, I am going to continue to watch. Mostly because I want to know what happens with Brother Justin. I like the show, even though last night's was disturbing. I'm mostly upset because they killed off the fat chick!

- Annie

[stellar]

Since when is it bad form to complain about a bad TV show?

I wanted to like Carnivale. The premise is great, the main characters are somewhat interesting, and the backstory is untread.

But given all of those things... and the fact that it's on HBO. The show is terrible so far. I want to see what happens when the two forces meet, but what do I have to sacrifice to get there? The writers on this show have truly messed up something with great potential... I blame the writers. Is it the worst show on television ever? No. Is it the worst show on HBO ever? Yes it is... and I'm paying for this.

Please let me complain about it if I have to pay for it... or at least agree with someone when they get it soooooo right.

[shamecube]

Originally posted by AnnieBW
Hey, it's a free country. Or is it? I haven't read the newspaper yet today. If you don't like it, there's a little thing called a remote. Use it. Don't waste your time and everyone else's bitching about a disappointing show. And don't insult the intelligence of other people who are watching the show. Save that dren for the "Scare Tactics" list on the DOM.

Personally, I am going to continue to watch. Mostly because I want to know what happens with Brother Justin. I like the show, even though last night's was disturbing. I'm mostly upset because they killed off the fat chick!

- Annie

This does not sound like the Annie I've come to know by reading the boards here. Personally, I don't think I've wasted my time "bitching" rather than sharing my feelings on a show that clearly billed itself as significantly better than awesome. I do feel swindled by HBO and expressing my opinion is a clear example of the freedom of our country. You will continue to watch while I am leaving the show behind for the reasons stated above. I said in an earlier post that I was giving it 2 more episdoes and I did. Now, I am exercising the power of my remote. I gave the show a chance. However, when dissenting opinions are squashed, this is when our country ceases to be free and becomes about as meaningful as a very special episode of "Family Ties".

Don't worry. The "fat chick" (as you called her) will probably be resurrected. Peace.

_eric

[vhsiv]

C'mon, now there's plenty to go around on the topic of Carnivale. I'm liking it pretty much, though I thought last week's 'booty call' episode was a little thick in the padding.

The fat stripper's lynching was intriguing, and retribution seems to be in the pipe. But strangely enough, I see this show as a cinematographer's show, rather than a writer's show.

And no, I don't think Dora Mae's going to be coming back from the dead - if she does, it's going to be a very bad thing and would likely 'flip the script' on the whole show.

I'll stick with it - besides, it's better than watching repeats of 'Taken'...
________
MEDICAL MARIJUANA (http://medicalmarijuanacard.info)

[frellyou]

Only saw the first 2 episodes. I noticed the chick from Undeclared is in it. It's not bad but it's moving so slowly.

[Sunderflame]

HBO's Carnivale...is not getting any better....This weeks ep was the worst yet....So far HBO's all time great Original series...are starting to take a huge dive...Carnivale is not worth wasting any more of my time...it drags...miserably....They are losing Sex In the City...The Sopronos.....and there isn't much left..I'm not seeing any great progamming stratergies at all...Showtime also is really bad...what the frell is happeing to premium TV....migh as well give up....

[PrairieScaper]

I remember how, way back when I was entranced with Twin Peaks, many many folks just absolutely hated it and didn't understand what I saw in it at all. Now I see the same may be true with Carnivale, which I think is very interesting. Oh well, different strokes...

[fermicat]

<sigh>

Just watched tonight's new ep.

It's still really slow. They did throw in a few good plot tidbits, but it seemed like there was still a lot of filler and purely atmospheric shots. I just keep getting the feeling that they could have done this story in half the number of episodes.

[Sunderflame]

SLOW is not the WORD for it..... AGONIZINGLY SO!

[AnnieBW]

Granted, it's not the edge-of-your-seat action that we're used to with Farscape, but it's a different style altogether. I kind of like that it's slower. Although, for some reason, I'm surprised when the hour is over.

Go figure.

- Annie

[Boron]

I'm confused (which is nothing new) about something to do with Carnivale. Did Dora Mae, (the stripper) wander off after her show went wild in "Babylon", and was attacked by the townspeople, or something? Just when was she vulnerable to such an attack?? The last I see of her, the rest of the Carnies are comforting her after her show, and the next thing I know, she's dead. What happened??


:confused::( :confused:

[AnnieBW]

Dora Mae must have wandered off to clear her head after the show went bad, and someone killed her.

- Annie

[Sunderflame]

but I may be wrong....
The whole town of Babaloyn is a ghost town... and it is evil....Old Scutter killed someone in the mine..with a pick ax. The miners all died in a cave in and they all come back to life everynight....Thus management knew this....also it seems to be a rift in time...the dancing bear chewing on the wounded soldiers foot...the old man serer...(blind guy looking for his dancing bear)still havn't figured out about the young kid and the preacherman except: I think that all of them will meet up one way or another for a supreme finale....I don't think any thing is going to happen any time soon... I do think they are building up to things to come very slowly...also if you noticed Dorene was standing in the window with the guy the carny dwarf killed...she is now walking dead...that's why he wanted to be taken over the hill if he was going to be killed....he could never leave that town...it is his punishment...for his sin...
This is just my guess....any other views....

[Under A Dying Sun]

been watching since ep1. from my view, this show is resting its laurels far too mightily on mystery and not enough pay off.

its all about style, and not enough story or character. i hope it gets better. absurdly predictable too.

[shamecube]

I watched the last ep out of curiousity. This would have been a really good first episode. Starting with the death of Dora Mae and then working both backwards and forwards. A fallen preacher...how did he fall? Would've been cool.

[Sunderflame]

I must say tonite's episode intrigued me...I think the show is starting simmer alot more...the plot is now spreading out before us...I think the Our dear Brother Justin may be possessed by his fathers demon....and maybe his sister will get laid...who knows...I'm wondering if she is a virgin (joking) but the story is starting to unfold....and it is about time

[AnnieBW]

Looks like they're putting my man Clancy through the ringer on this one! Brother Justin's really going through some tough stuff!

I'm still wondering how he's connected with Ben, though. And when the two of them are going to have a confrontation.

- Annie

[fermicat]

HBO is showing episodes 1-7 in a Saturday marathon, so this weekend would be a good chance to catch up.

I finally watched #7 last night and liked it. I was pleased to see some depth (finally) in Iris and the backstory they showed for her and Justin was intriguing.

[PrairieScaper]

Thanks for the info, fermicat. I've been wondering when HBO was going to get around to running all of the eps like that.

[fermicat]

<sigh>

This week was another slow one......

Hope the payoff is worth it. I think I am starting to forget some of the earlier clues, dang it.

I though last week's The River was the best so far. This week's didn't seem to have enough meat in it, although there was some "nice" atmospheric stuff with the insane asylum.

[stellar]

Last night's ep was almost good. I don't want to miss the one that is actually good. Of course, If there is not a major payoff I'm climbing a clock tower.

[Sunderflame]

I'm afraid I might miss something if I don't watch it. Although I have to wonder about the blind guy talking to management and Samson was asked to leave his own trailer?
I'm glad Jonesy got laid by Rita.
I was alittle surprised when the kid touched that ring and you get a visual of what looked liked the crusades. The visions seem to keep going further into the past than before.
What I want to know is why they keep going back to the war; where evidently Scutter had his legs and arms torn off in a blast or some kinda bombing. I think the kid is Scutter reincarnated. He just doesn't know it yet.
I thought him driving around looking for the psuedo lobster girl was a waste of viewer time.
This show is painstakingly slow. Perhaps we should e-mail HB0 and let them know their original series are starting to go down hill.
I really hate K Street.
I'm sick of listening to politics 24/7.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.:whip: :rollin:

[fermicat]

spoiler space


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Yeah, I was happy about the sex scene with Jonesy and Rita Sue. She was surprisingly sensitive about it. She needed it as much as he did...

Agreed, the driving around was just as useless as Ben's stubborn fest along the roadside in an earlier episode.

[fermicat]

This article makes it sound unlikely that the agonizingly slow pace of this series is going to speed up like we'd hoped. I thought we were headed for a big showdown in the final episodes, but it doesn't look like it......








From SciFi News (very minor spoilers about direction of show):








9:00am ET, 4-November-03

Moore Parts Carnivale Veil

Ronald D. Moore, co-executive producer of HBO's supernatural drama series Carnivale, told SCI FI Wire that the upcoming final first-season episodes will answer some questions raised by the offbeat show—but not all of them. "By the end of the first season you're going to understand a lot more about 'Management,'" Moore said in an interview. "You'll know who's running the carnival." The show deals with the strange performers in a Depression-era travling freak show.

Moore—who is also executive producer of the SCI FI Channel's upcoming original miniseries Battlestar Galactica—added that audiences will understand more about Ben Hawkins (Nick Stahl) and Brother Justin (Clancy Brown) and why they are connected. "Even though those two characters aren't going to meet in the first season—which is a non-traditional way, that the hero and the villain aren't going to meet year one at all—you're going to understand that they're both players in a much larger story," Moore said.

Moore added, "People aren't in the carnivale by accident. You'll start to go, 'Oh my God, that guy is connected to the backstory, and that guy isn't.' You'll start to see that Brother Justin is on an arc, on a climb to power, and that Ben is trying to grapple with a role he didn't want, but was born into. That's where you'll be by the end of the first season. You'll start to understand where it's all going. But it's not really going to answer every single question." Carnivale airs Sunday nights at 9 ET/PT on HBO.

[Sunderflame]

If this guy is a co - director of Carnivale, I can't even imagine how bad Battle Star Galactica is going to be. This guy needs to hang up his ink pen and call it a day.
Just knowing the facts that you just posted does not give me much hope of following this series. E-gads will bad television ever end.. Sometimes I think we should just turn the tv off. There is just no point in it. I can't imagine dragging Carnivale out that long. Forget a second season...Gheesh....:mad:

[TechnoBoY]

If only I had HBO.

[ilianexsi]

I dunno, there are parts of it that move slowly, but I don't really mind it so much.... I like it as a whole. I like that fact that there are only hints of meaning-- I like being able to think over all the various (likely and unlikely) possibilities of each episode afterwards. To me, it's like a giant jigsaw puzzle-- I might have to spend a long time putting together the pieces, but it's kinda fun looking for them.

I read something in an article elsewhere online (don't recall where, might have been HBO's message board) that addressed the dream scene with the dismembered soldier; it had to do with one generation's 'creature of light' being symbolically replaced with a new one. Hmm.

I liked the scene with Jonesy and Rita Sue in this week's episode; both steamy and emotional! They both needed it.

My boyfriend and I are making jokes about who Management will eventually turn out to be.

If anybody wants absinthe (Lodz's favorite drink) I know a place that sells it..... you have to mix the absinthe essence with sugar and vodka, but it gives you an accurate effect. (Email me for the contact info-- end of commercial! :) )

[Sunderflame]

I must say that I really enjoyed Sunday nights show. It is really starting to make sense. It's about time. So Ben is Scutters son and the Blind guy I think they are trying to get rid of him..At least I think Samson is...Now I'm trying to figure out what is up with that MattYs mom..is that her name?
Brother Justin is definetly evil and now he is out of the sanitarium. His sister is such a prude..
Jonesy and Rita Sue have it for each other hot and heavy...next weeks episode should even get better. At least the show is starting to pick up...yippee:D

[KayandTonio]

Oh, I dunno - I'm enjoying the show. Enough to sign up for HBO anyway, we didn't have it before. There's so much going on we need a flow chart to figure out who's evil and who's ultimately going to screw over whom! Plus, there's nice eye candy there... MMmmm, Clancy Brown!

[AnnieBW]

OMG!!! Tonight's episode, "Day of the Dead" was a real corker! Especially then end with Brother Justin and Iris. Eeeeewwww! :shocked: Things are starting to make a little more sense. They've got an enormous amount of wrapping up to do next week - unless they're going to be EEEEVIL and do a cliffhanger!

- Annie

[Sunderflame]

I think last weeks episode was written better than tonights.
I knew the blind guy is wicked...to the bone..
I couldn't believe Iris and Justin...whoa..Iris burning down the church withall those little children who were innocent. "spooky" and then the two kissing? What is up with that. incest is best?
Is Ben gona be able to save the lady from the black mombo snake bite?
I can't wait to see what Ben is going to talk to 'management', about. That will be the end of the season. I hope it is a good cliff hanger. I'm not holding my breath though.:whip: :grr: :smokin:

[AnnieBW]

Ho-lee dren! What a finale!

SPOILERS AHOY!!!

Justin has gone completely over to the dark side. Ben's power has come into its own. Jonesy, Sophie, and Appy might be crispy critters. Lesbionic action with Sophie and Libby.

Both Clancy Brown and Nick Stahl deserve Emmies for their performances. Okay. I'm slightly biased towards Clancy. But that last episode really ROCKED!!! It's almost as bad of a cliffhanger as BT was for Farscape!!!

- Annie

[stellar]

SPOILERS

This was by far the best episode. If this was the twelfth episode of this caliber in the season run I'd be clamering for a season two. As it is, the season finale is a jewel in an otherwise coal-filled one-season run.

This show had a great deal of potential and fullfilled some of it last night, but it was not enough to make up for 11-eps of "what?".

So what do we know? Justin is the devil, or at the very least a high-ranking demon.

"Tavatar" is actually the cross followed by the word "avatar" meaning Ben is actually the incarnation of Christ?

The "gift" Management gave to Lodz was his eyes, so that Ben could tell that he was lying and kill him? This could have been done better.

They should have shown Management. I think he's an angel, fallen or otherwise.

I don't care that Sophie, Jones, and Appleonia are consumed by fire. Is that my fault, or Carnivale's?

A storyline like Carnivale is very hard to pull off especially in a 12-ep run. That storyline hasn't been pulled off. The actors are great, the cinemetography is great, the leadership and scripts are horrible. I doubt HBO will renew without some serious Emmy action.

I'm editing to add how great I think the photography is on this show. I think it's among the best photography on TV today. Is it enough? We'll see next season.

[Sunderflame]

It was great ending....but now that Ben's killed, what will happen to him? We all have to wait to see.
I liked Jonesy. I agree I don't mind if Sophie and her mother burn..

[Sunderflame]

bump? did you notice they has no preview at all of the next season?

[AnnieBW]

As of last night, HBO hasn't told them that S2 is a go. I haven't waded into my 200+ messages from the Carnivale list yet, so that may have changed.

- Annie

[fermicat]

I finally watched my tapes of the last two episodes. They were both pretty good, and the last one kicked eema. I wish the other 11 had been even half as good as that one. I think they could have done the story so far in about 6 episodes, rather than 12, and it would have been a better production. If they do continue with a second season, I hope they will make more like the last episode.

I never could quite warm up to Sophie, and Appollonia. I did like Jonesy (maybe that is partly hormonal, because he is really nice looking!) and I also liked Rita Sue in spite of her many flaws. She is one of the few characters they developed well - and who seemed real to me (part good, part bad, all human). With the slow pace of the first 11, they had plenty of time to do much more character development that they actually did, and they could have done so with more of the characters.