Angel

[zap]

So tonight is the season opener of Angel. I actually missed the season ender last season, so I had to read about it online, but I'm still a little confused, but we'll see. I'm stoked that hottie Spike is coming to Angel, I loooooove the chemistry between those two men! On the other hand, I am REALLY bummed that Charisma Carpenter (Cordelia) is NOT coming back this season. I just think that's rude, especially since they are essentially replacing her with Mercedes Mcnab (she played Spike's ditzy blond girlfriend on Buffy, can't recall her character's name right now). Anyway, I like this show, and really look foreward to seeing the opener this evening:aok:

[vhsiv]

Hey now, before we all go 'high-dudgeon' here, Charisma Carpenter just had a baby, so I'd imagine that she'd want to take some time off, to do some family stuff.

And Mercedes McNab plays Harmony - I thought that she and Spike had broken up and/or Spike had killed her...
________
Maryjane (http://maryjanes.info/)

[BlackThorn]

According to an interview Charisma gave, she was just as surprised as most of the fans to find out she was out of a job. According to an interview Joss Whedon gave, they felt "her story was over." Don't know what was behind it, since everyone's going to spin it in a way that makes them look best. Probably won't know until years after the show's over on some True Hollywood Story thing.

Harmony wasn't killed. She dumped Spike and left Sunnydale in Season 5 of Buffy . . . the episode "The Crush" where Spike threatened to kill Dru to prove his feelings for Buffy. Harmony then showed up in one episode of Season 2 Angel, titled "Disharmony." By the end of that one, she ran off with a bunch of wacko MLM/cultist vampires. I hated Harmony as a human, but I started liking her a lot more when she was vamped.


Anyways, yep....jumping up and down in excitement for tonight! By the limited spoilers I've read (trying to stay spoiler-lite this season,) it looks like this season is going to be a lot of fun!

[PrairieScaper]

Remember the great slap-fight between Harmony and Xander on "Buffy?" One of the funniest visuals in a long time, for me.

I've been carefully avoiding spoilers so I can be surprised about how Spike will be brought back after his fate in the "Buffy" series ender.

I will miss the Cordelia character, but I will not miss the Angel-Cordelia romance. That just didn't gel for me.

(vhsiv, what does 'high dudgeon' mean?)

[Nicola]

Originally posted by PrairieScaper
(vhsiv, what does 'high dudgeon' mean?)

Major snit.

[grinner]

Since I don't get the WB... I will need to have my sister-in-law copy it off of cable tomorrow. I liked Harmony better as a vamp than as a human. I have heard that there will be no underlying storyline this season... so who knows how that will work out.

[PrairieScaper]

I think Whedon will be playing down the story arcs so more folks can follow stand-alone eps, for ratings purposes. But I believe arcs will still be there, just less prominent? I can't imagine a Whedon production without some continuing storylines tying it together. We'll see.

[grinner]

That is what I read in an Entertainment Weekly article. No underlying story arcs.

[PrairieScaper]

Well I hope that's not 100% the case. I think the arcs give the show more depth! I know the producers are supposed to lighten things up this season, but I don't want that taken too far.

[grinner]

I agree. But I am just saying what the article reported.

[BlackThorn]

In a recent interview, David Fury said there will be much less in the way of arcs and more stand-alone episodes. But he also said he doesn't think they will be able to help themselves in having some amount of arc going on, and there will probably be mini-arcs for a few episodes.

I think it'll probably be more like the first two seasons and less like last season where 80% of the episodes were one continuing episode that required all the previous episodes to understand.

[grinner]

That was one of the things that I liked about Buffy and Angel last season. 1 long storyline in both of them

[Hank]

I'm watching the season two DVDs of Angel right now. And the continuing storyline of the season is one of the things that makes the show work so well for me. Every time I finish an episode I can't wait to start the next one. Why, it's almost like I was with Farscape!

[Susana]

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okay, so I am major po'ed! They show all these snippets of spike, and you just know he's in that darn envelope (no, I didn't see any spoilers, but it was amulet sized and all!). I kept waiting for Angel to open it, but noooo, they wait until like the last 5 seconds to bring spike back! Grrr... All the stuff in the promos wasn't even in the episode!

Bah!

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[BlackThorn]

That's what I liked about last season, too. I don't like purely stand-alone shows. They don't give me a reason to keep coming back for more. I was worried when I heard they were cutting down on the arc stuff this year, but if it has a mini arcs and B plotline arcs under all the stand-alone stuff, I'll be happy.

[grinner]

I enjoyed this episode with the exception of the way they "explained" the Cordelia situation. That was lacking. But it appears to leave an opening for her to come back... since she is in a 'Coma'. I was suprised about the role that Harmony has... I wasn't expecting that. I can't believe I remained spoilerfree all summer. Yeah me.

[zap]

I thought the ep was pretty good. It was interesting how they turned Gunn into Mr. Supadupa Lawyer....I wonder if he'll be changed into supadupa whatevertheyneedthisweek in future eps? Harmony.....well, she is the ditz, right? I dont really want to get used to her tho, she's grating. I like the subtle subtexty stuff with Angel : macco guy to Angel "you little fairy"...Angel "Im not little":rollin: looooved that! Then later : Angel "I got no problem spankin men" :spew:

Now the thing about season long arcs. I also read various bits that stated there would be no season long arc this season. I also read that Joss is approaching this season like a fresh start, like a first season. OK, if thats his idea for this season, then sure, no arc makes sense (sort of). However, if not a "big bad" type arc, an underlying theme was presented last night, the idea that Angel & co must figure out a way to change the system they are working within now. I say, good luck with that!

That idea just makes things murkier to me. What is good? What is bad? Whom exactly is evil and are they evil all the time? Harmony is a vampire, yet she is "off the stuff (human blood)" and working for the force of good. Angel has a soul, and is a champion for good, yet look at his lack of mercy shown last night. My favorite author is Clive Barker, and usually the underlying theme in his works is this blurry, grey area between GOOD and EVIL, so I think I may really enjoy this season of Angel. I wouldn't mind if it was the last season of Angel tho.

[PrairieScaper]

Well, it was interesting. I'm reserving judgement on all of the sweeping changes. Especially Gunn's transformation. I want to see where they take it.

I wish the Eve character was Lila instead. I miss Lila already.

And I agree that Cordy's absence was brushed off like it wasn't a major issue. I didn't care for that at all. But at least they've left the door open for a guest bit later in the season. Maybe she and Connor will both show up during sweeps week.

The scene at Spanky's apartment was a scream. And after Angel 'terminated' the head of the wetworks team and told the one survivor that he was fresh out of mercy, he walked out under a banner in the school hallway about respect -- something like, 'earn it, show it.' I've forgotten the exact words, but it was a nice touch.

A very pro-Angel reviewer wrote that if fans didn't love the season opener, they should stick around for the 2nd ep since it's much better. Can't wait to see how they fit Spike into the crew.

[tesseract]

Originally posted by zapgun
I like the subtle subtexty stuff with Angel : macco guy to Angel "you little fairy"...Angel "Im not little":rollin: looooved that! Then later : Angel "I got no problem spankin men" :spew:


Hooray for subtext!!! And with Spike on board, the possibilities are even greater . . .

[SPOILERS from the scenes for next week's episode]

Witness Spike's "I'm his date" when asked who he is. I hope they play this for all it's worth. :aok:

However, if not a "big bad" type arc, an underlying theme was presented last night, the idea that Angel & co must figure out a way to change the system they are working within now.

Exactly! I love that this show is willing to reinvent its premise and to complicate its somewhat Manichean view of Big Good vs. Big Evil. I've always found it interesting that the show sometimes treats Evil as threatening and sometimes as a joke (for instance, Wesley asking Fred's assistant, "how long have you been evil?") The vamps are a good example of this, too--sometimes scary, sometimes cartoonish (this was particularly evident on Buffy).

[AnnieBW]

Personally, I think the episode was great! Besides, it was nice to see Rod Rowland on-screen, in a departure from his normal "tortured good guy" role. :)

I wish they'd ditch Eve and bring back Lilah. She wasn't as annoyingly perky. Even dead, Lilah was interesting!

Best line: (Angel, looking at collection of bondage gear) "So, tell me again why they call you Spanky?" and "Just so you know, I don't have a problem spanking men." Oh, boy! The line that launched a thousand slashfics! :ewink:

- Annie, glad that Angelcakes is back!

[zap]

I just read that Willow (Alyson Hannigan) will be on Angel for a couple episodes! WOO HOOOOO, Im STOKED about that!

[grinner]

where did you read that? That is awesome news.

[zap]

I read that on the WB's Angel homepage, in the letter to the fans from Joss Whedon:aok:

[tesseract]

Awesome news about Willow! Not only was she my favorite Buffy character, but I loved the episode of Angel from last year that she was in. Thanks for the news!

[grinner]

Any thoughts on last nights episode?

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I am wondering where they are going with Spike. Are they going to keep him as a conscience figure for Angel? Will he ever get the peace that he seems to want?
I didn't like how high-and-mighty Angel was in his flippant answers to his group about Spike. He has a soul? He SAVED THE WORLD? I think that Angel is jealous of Spike... because Spike was able to accept his having a soul back with less than 100 years of torment... and brooding. Plus Spike 'got' time with Buffy which Angel so desperately wanted.
This season could be interesting.

[Egg]

spoiler alert..............spike in Angel???????????

[NYPinTA]

I was only able to see the first 20 minutes of it last night, but OMG was it hilarious!!
Should I put spoiler space here?? Ok
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Is that enough?

Angel is the big boss now, he doesn't have to explain anything;) ... and of course he is jealous and for the reasons you have stated. What took him almost a century to do, Spike has done in only.. what.. two years? I loved that as soon as he could focus he tried to attack Angel and ended up in the desk! :rollin: :rollin:
The funny thing is, even when they were both evil they didn't really get along.
Wonder if his other ex will show- Drusilla. I thought she was great! The stuff they had her say...:rollin:

[PrairieScaper]

Originally posted by grinner
I didn't like how high-and-mighty Angel was in his flippant answers to his group about Spike. He has a soul? He SAVED THE WORLD? I think that Angel is jealous of Spike... because Spike was able to accept his having a soul back with less than 100 years of torment... and brooding. Plus Spike 'got' time with Buffy which Angel so desperately wanted. This season could be interesting. Spike certainly seems to bring out the more human, sometimes even petty, side of Angel. Which I like, it's realistic. There has been such an emphasis on Angel being the noble 'champion,' so this is just another dimension. Angel and Spike have always been competitive -- even over Drusilla. Having Spike in LA should be way fun.

I like Fred and all, but do the writers realize that all of the guys have had a thing for her in one way or another? Even Spike mentioned 'having a go at her.' It's getting to be a bit much. As I said before, I think they need Lilah back, dead or alive. Another strong female character in the mix would be good.

[grinner]

Originally posted by Egg
spoiler alert..............spike in Angel??????????? It has come to my attention that I should have put a spoiler space in my post. I will rectify that right now. I apologize to any I might have spoiled with my comment. I am sorry.

[tesseract]

Originally posted by PrairieScaper
As I said before, I think they need Lilah back, dead or alive. Another strong female character in the mix would be good.

I completely agree about their needing another strong female character. Lilah would be great, though it seems like they've "replaced" her with Eve. I also kinda liked that woman who could do funky things with electricity (can't remember her name off the top of my head). But they got rid of her pretty quickly. As much as I love Spike, that's why I was hoping they'd bring one of the female characters over from "Buffy." I am really enjoying the Spike/Angel dynamic, however, especially when you consider that they have a really loooong history (and Angel is Spike's grandsire--I'd forgotten about that!)

[BlackThorn]

Gwen was the electro girl. She's busy filming the Pitch Black sequel (Chronicles of Riddick.) Bummer that she probably won't be back, but am glad she got a roll in a big movie.

*Spoilers for last night's episode*















I so loved last night's episode. It's so great to see Spike acting like Spike again. Woohoo! Marsters always helps other actors bring out a lot in their characters, and it showed with most of the cast. Great chemistry.

I think Spike will continue to play a "conscience" role. He's always one to question things and point out the big gaping flaws no one else wants to see. And with where Angel is right now, that's exactly what he needs if he wants the group to stay together and on track with the "mission."

My only complaint about the episode was not enough Lorne. He stared in shock for all of a couple minutes and was nonexistent the rest of the time, but it's only one episode . . . so not a big deal.

Can't wait to see where it goes next!

[Nicola]

Yeah, I missed Lorne too. But I think there is plenty of potential for his character to shine this season, so I am not too worried.

I am actually pleased with the way this season is shaping up. I like the idea that they are grappling with trying to keep their integrity in a corrupt world. Rings very true.