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Zantar
10-23-2003, 10:21 AM
Anyone see this? Watched this with a girl down my hall. pretty interesting. I thought they were going to show Spike going to hell, but they threw a nice turn there. I have to say though i like angel alot more than i like spike.

What were they refeering to when spike said that angel got a ticket out of hell? Something about a prophecy? what prophecy? and when did they work together before?
BlackThorn
10-23-2003, 10:32 AM
The Shanshu prophecy -- first brought up in the Season 1 finale. It basically says the vampire with a soul will live until he dies (or as Wes translated -- will become human.) This is supposed to happen after he fights a number of unspeakable baddies and averts the apocolypse (which one? :dunno: ) Now that there's two vampire with souls, and Spike did avert the apocolypse with his sacrifice at the end of Buffy, it complicates things.

Angel and Spike worked together when Angel was Angelus and evil. Angel was Spike's grandsire, after all. But in all reality, they've always had more of a pissing contest going on. Either way, they have a lot of history together.

Personally, I think Angel will still get his Shanshu, but Spike will be an important part of Angel's growth towards that.

BTW -- Loved last night's episode. Too cool!

*realizes she knows too much about Angel and Buffy than is healthy*
Nicola
10-23-2003, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by BlackThorn
*realizes she knows too much about Angel and Buffy than is healthy*

I am right there with you, BlackThorn....

But what a wonderful addiction!
Petrov
10-23-2003, 12:27 PM
What were they refeering to when spike said that angel got a ticket out of hell?

This is a reference to when Angel was on Buffy. At the end of Season 2, Buffy lances Angel (recoving his soul a second too late) w/ a sword and sends him to hell to prevent the apocalypse. Angel is brought out of hell in the early parts of Season 3 by, I believe, The First Evil who would become the Big Bad in Season 7. So, Angel did spend some highly unpleasant time in hell, but got a 'get out of hell free' card a couple months later.

-Peter
Susana
10-23-2003, 08:10 PM
I have to say, I really love Spike and all, but for heaven's sake, the show is called "ANGEL". How about letting the star have a little more screen time, eh?
BlackThorn
10-23-2003, 08:19 PM
It was just one episode, and from I've heard, there will be quite a few character-centric episodes this season -- for all of the characters. I guess it fits in with the new format of less arc and more stand-alone episodes.
Zantar
10-23-2003, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by Petrov
This is a reference to when Angel was on Buffy. At the end of Season 2, Buffy lances Angel (recoving his soul a second too late) w/ a sword and sends him to hell to prevent the apocalypse. Angel is brought out of hell in the early parts of Season 3 by, I believe, The First Evil who would become the Big Bad in Season 7. So, Angel did spend some highly unpleasant time in hell, but got a 'get out of hell free' card a couple months later.

-Peter

...explain a bit fuller. Do you have a link to a complete bio of angel?

I have to say what little ive seen i like angel better. He seems to be constantly tortured with this existence, and that makes sense for someone in his position.
Kurt_eh
10-23-2003, 10:28 PM
Not much more to tell...

In the Season 2 Buffy Finale, Becoming Part II (http://www.chosentwo.com/buffy/main.php?x=episodes/becoming2.html), Angelus is trying to waken the deamon Acathla, who has the ability to create a vortex that will suck everything into a hell-dimension.

Angelus wakes Acathla, only to be confronted by Buffy. They fight, and almost instantaneously with Buffy running Angelus through with a sword, Willow restores his soul. Acathla reverts to his statue form, sucking Angel (not Angelus) with him. But not before Angel can look her in the eyes and mutter one final "buffy."

Skip ahead to "later that year" aka season 3, a beam of light falls from the ceiling and Angel drops to the floor.

See:
Faith, Hope, and Trick (http://www.chosentwo.com/buffy/main.php?x=episodes/faithhope.html)
Beauty and the Beasts (http://www.chosentwo.com/buffy/main.php?x=episodes/beauty.html)
and: Amends (http://www.chosentwo.com/buffy/main.php?x=episodes/amends.html)
Nicola
10-23-2003, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by Kurt_eh
Not much more to tell...

In the Season 2 Buffy Finale, Becoming Part II (http://www.chosentwo.com/buffy/main.php?x=episodes/becoming2.html), Angelus is trying to waken the deamon Acathla, who has the ability to create a vortex that will suck everything into a hell-dimension.

Angelus wakes Acathla, only to be confronted by Buffy. They fight, and almost instantaneously with Buffy running Angelus through with a sword, Willow restores his soul. Acathla reverts to his statue form, sucking Angel (not Angelus) with him. But not before Angel can look her in the eyes and mutter one final "buffy."

Skip ahead to "later that year" aka season 3, a beam of light falls from the ceiling and Angel drops to the floor.

See:
Faith, Hope, and Trick (http://www.chosentwo.com/buffy/main.php?x=episodes/faithhope.html)
Beauty and the Beasts (http://www.chosentwo.com/buffy/main.php?x=episodes/beauty.html)
and: Amends (http://www.chosentwo.com/buffy/main.php?x=episodes/amends.html)

Don't forget that Buffy puts her Claddaugh ring (the one Angel gave her - before he became Angelus) on the floor earlier in the day, right where Angel lands when he drops to the floor.

Which is why I am not convinced it was the First Evil who brought back Angel. Although I am ambivalent about that rather than sure.
Kurt_eh
10-23-2003, 11:15 PM
Morphy does like to talk big, doesn't he/she/it...
Nicola
10-23-2003, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by Kurt_eh
Morphy does like to talk big, doesn't he/she/it...

Huh? What did I say?
Kurt_eh
10-23-2003, 11:28 PM
Morphy / aka First Evil. Sorry, that's what we were calling FE back on the SPACE boards before "Conversations with Dead People."

Some pictures of Angel's end/return

http://www.buffyuk.buffyfans.co.uk/Gallery/Buffy/Series2/Large/BecomingPt2_02.jpg

more as I find 'em
Zantar
10-24-2003, 01:12 AM
Who is the first evil. I dont understand...
grinner
10-24-2003, 05:15 AM
Originally posted by Zantar
Who is the first evil. I dont understand... you didn't watch the final season of Buffy? The entire season is about the First Evil.

The First Evil is a Non-corporeal force that is trying to become corporeal. To do that... it needs for more evil to be in the world.
Nicola
10-24-2003, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by Kurt_eh
Morphy / aka First Evil. Sorry, that's what we were calling FE back on the SPACE boards before "Conversations with Dead People."


First Evil = Morphy. Ha! *Snerk* Funny.
Kurt_eh
10-24-2003, 10:02 AM
FE got his moniker after the Season 7 opener. He shows up as warren, then morphed into Glory, Adam, Mayor, Dru, Master and finaly Buffy.

For more on Morphy, check out the Amends link above, and then go to a bunch of the Season 7 episodes at www.chosentwo.com

Conversations with Dead People would be a key episode...
Nicola
10-24-2003, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by Kurt_eh
Conversations with Dead People would be a key episode...

Didn't "Conversations with Dead People" win a big award recently?

Great episode. Lots and lots going on. Gotta love multi-level discourse!
Kurt_eh
10-24-2003, 10:15 AM
Yep. Jane Espenson won herself a Hugo.

Back to Morphy, here's a screencap from "End of Days"
Zantar
10-24-2003, 10:51 AM
Ok so first evil is a uber evil force trying to become corporeal....and existed since season 2?

When angel was killed by Buffy...was this before or after he lost his soul when he reached the momment of perfect happiness?
Nicola
10-24-2003, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by Zantar
Ok so first evil is a uber evil force trying to become corporeal....and existed since season 2?


Yes, but struggling to gain strength. Wasn't a dominant evil again (may have been working in the background) until season 7.


Originally posted by Zantar
When angel was killed by Buffy...was this before or after he lost his soul when he reached the momment of perfect happiness?

After.
grinner
10-24-2003, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by Zantar
Ok so first evil is a uber evil force trying to become corporeal....and existed since season 2?

When angel was killed by Buffy...was this before or after he lost his soul when he reached the momment of perfect happiness? actually... the First Evil Pre-Dates humanity... when the Uber-Vampires were common... and humanity wasn't even a consideration. The First Evil pre-dates the first Slayer... but the First Slayer helped to banish the remnants of the First Evil.
Nicola
10-24-2003, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by grinner
actually... the First Evil Pre-Dates humanity... when the Uber-Vampires were common... and humanity wasn't even a consideration. The First Evil pre-dates the first Slayer... but the First Slayer helped to banish the remnants of the First Evil.

Yes, right. Thanks for clarifying.:D
Kurt_eh
10-24-2003, 12:30 PM
And with another minor correction. Morphy's firsta appearance was in the Season 3 Christmas episode, Amends.

It went away till season 7.

I Amends, it tried to mess with Angel's mind, IIRC, to get ANGELUS back. It failed, by way of making him try to dust himself (he goes out to see one final sunrise), but buffy intervenes (that, and the PTB cause a blizzard which blocks the sun)...

Freak snowstorm in Sunnydale. Must be a 'miracle.'
NYPinTA
10-24-2003, 12:50 PM
...sigh..... I miss BTVS. Even bad BTVS...
Nicola
10-24-2003, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by NYPinTA
...sigh..... I miss BTVS. Even bad BTVS...

Me too.

Jane Esperson is working on Gilmore Girls now (if that helps).
NYPinTA
10-24-2003, 01:59 PM
So does that mean that Rory is gonna start to kick ass? :lol

The thing those two shows have in common is witty dialogue... :rollin:
Petrov
10-24-2003, 02:10 PM
The thing those two shows have in common is witty dialogue...

I've started watching Gilmore Girls this year now that the Tues. 8pm slot is open in my schedule. I enjoy the witty banter. The problem I have with it is that everyone seems to have the same vocabulary and speech affects. On Buffy the adult characters didn't have the same speech patterns as the teenagers (until they spent a large spans of time with the kids, and then seemed slightly exasperated when new speech habits crept into their dialog)