View Full Version : Who's tha daddy? [title edited, spoilers for 3.15 & beyond]
aerynstar23
10-23-2003, 04:42 PM
I am really confused now. I have seen all eps up to "Unrealized Reality" in Season 4. I don't care about spoilers, but can someone explain to me how Aeryn said "I was pregnant BEFORE I left Moya" and the father of her child is Talyn-John from some of the posts on here. She waited to tell Moya-John, so that would support her thinking it was Velorek's or "someone else" like she told Chiana in "Natural Election". It does not make sense that she has no "love" feelings for Moya-John because she is so "needy" for him when Moya-John is using the granny herbs to try to get over Aeryn. It seems she definately feels a connection with him. But again she only wants what she can't have. "Rejection is the greatest aphrodisiac"- Madonna
:rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :whip:
Darth Buddha
10-23-2003, 04:56 PM
O.K., we've got really only two possibilities..
If the child is product of their tryst in "A Human Reaction" then the question doesn't make any sense. Before the split, then technically both of them would be the father.
If on the other hand, the child is the product of the time on Talyn, then only the Talyn John is the father.
studentsteve
10-23-2003, 04:57 PM
As far as i know sebation women can be pregnant for up to seven years before the feotus is disposed of something to do with not getting a whole unit of women pregnant at one time during battle campaigns. A peace keeper doctor has to activate the feotus before the pregnancy begins. That is as much as i know so far. :D So either could be the dad.
the_cadpig
10-23-2003, 05:41 PM
Up to Unrealized Reality, Aeryn was not sure who the daddy was. It could have been John's (whether it's MJ or TJ doesn't really matter. Same DNA.) or someone else's. The only thing she knows at this point is that she was pregnant before she left Moya (Season 3 finale) to join her assassination squad or whatever it was. She found that out when they all went to the command carrier in ITLD.
IMO, she was confused, too. A long term relationship with all of the emotional baggage that incorporates is an idea that is still fairly new to her. She knows she wants John. But there are definite trust issues between the two of them. She is afraid to do something that will push him further away, and she felt that telling him about the baby without knowing who the father was would do that. So she doesn't tell him. And, ironically, the very thing she was trying to avoid is what ends up happening. John feels she doesn't trust him enough to tell him the truth and distances himself.
"Love makes you do the wacky" -- Willow Rosenburg
SaraD
10-24-2003, 11:12 AM
Very elegantly put, and I like your take on this. It makes sense in terms of the Aeryn we know, and the way the story has been set up.
It's also true that the very idea of a pregnancy has to be shocking to her. Not something she ever had to worry about, and probably not something she's ever watched anybody else experience. Somebody gets tapped by high command as a good breeder, I'd bet they disappear into a med facility someplace and aren't seen again for a while, if at all. Children are put into those awful group-home situations (Aeryn was so little in that scene with her mother; you wonder how any of them survived that) so she will have no models for what is coming her way. She's got to be terrified. Especially if she thinks the baby is John's -- she might want that child very much, but who knows if she'll survive carrying a half-human (with a higher body temperature).
So while in retrospect what she did was wrong (she should have told him) the reasons she did it are quite clear and believable. And to some extent, these same fears might explain her odd behavior shift in season four. But not the eyebrows. Not even being pregnant by an alien can account for those eyebrows.
Originally posted by the_cadpig
Up to Unrealized Reality, Aeryn was not sure who the daddy was. It could have been John's (whether it's MJ or TJ doesn't really matter. Same DNA.) or someone else's. The only thing she knows at this point is that she was pregnant before she left Moya (Season 3 finale) to join her assassination squad or whatever it was. She found that out when they all went to the command carrier in ITLD.
IMO, she was confused, too. A long term relationship with all of the emotional baggage that incorporates is an idea that is still fairly new to her. She knows she wants John. But there are definite trust issues between the two of them. She is afraid to do something that will push him further away, and she felt that telling him about the baby without knowing who the father was would do that. So she doesn't tell him. And, ironically, the very thing she was trying to avoid is what ends up happening. John feels she doesn't trust him enough to tell him the truth and distances himself.
"Love makes you do the wacky" -- Willow Rosenburg
Selena
10-24-2003, 11:19 AM
Moya John is the father ... Aeryn claimed they had " been 'close' ... just the once" ... before Talyn John was on the scene. A Human Reaction.
RydraWong
10-24-2003, 11:50 AM
Well, "being close" doesn't always result in pregnancy every time :D . The baby might have been conceived during AHR - or it might not have been.
And AHR was before the twinning, so if the baby was conceived then, then both Johns would be the father ("equal and original").
I did see an article where it was mentioned that apparently DK had considered whether or not it should be revealed which John was the baby's father, and decided against it on the grounds that it doesn't matter to John - emotionally, he's the baby's father regardless of whether it's technically "his" or not.
Which I like. Parental love ain't all about biology, as any adoptive parent will tell you.
I think what bothers John in s4 is not the possibility that the baby might not be "his" (he's already considered and accepted that) - it's Aeryn's failure to tell him about the pregnancy or to trust him.
vhsiv
10-24-2003, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by RydraWong
...DK had considered whether or not it should be revealed which John was the baby's father, and decided against it on the grounds that it doesn't matter to John - emotionally, he's the baby's father regardless of whether it's technically "his" or not.
Which I like. Parental love ain't all about biology, as any adoptive parent will tell you. Are we channelling the Season Finale of 'Nip/Tuck' here, or what?
What about all of the alt.speculation that the child could, in fact, be Pilot's? I know that's a bit 'Outer Limits', but it was a big topic of discussion over at the Kansas board...
RydraWong
10-24-2003, 01:57 PM
Are we channelling the Season Finale of 'Nip/Tuck' here, or what?
Hey, I'm in the UK, we don't even get 'Nip/Tuck' over here :D.
As for Pilot ... well, if Pilot was the father, it would have to mean
<spoilers>
that Aeryn was lying in "Bad Timing" about tests showing the kid was John Crichton's.
OTOH, there have been a fair few hints that she retained some of Pilot's DNA after DNAMS, so the child could actually be a human/Sebacean/Pilot combination ... :)
Spoilers
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We know John and Aeryn procreated in "A Human Reaction" but given her relationship with Talyn-John its safe to say while on Talyn she procreated with him more than once (refrences that they have a sexual relationship...
Aeryn - Frell
Crichton - Yeah
Aeryn - No, no no no...BAD frell)
As for Velorek, it would be a possibility... as she was with him (roughly) six cycles before she found out she was pregnant and she later said she knew before she left Moya...(end of S3) BUT we can discount Velorek as its definately one of the Johns'.
We found out that its not fully sebaccean (can't remember which episode, and then Aeryn's confession: "Crichton. Only ever Crichton"
Therefore I think Talyn-John is the father, although it wouldn't matter to Moya-John who is the real father, he loves Aeryn and will love the child just as much.
aerynstar23
10-24-2003, 02:08 PM
Yeah, It makes sense that "both" Johns are the child's father. I never thought of it being the same DNA, if the child was the product of there union in "A Human Reaction" then yes, logically, the child is BOTH John's. Hey SaraD you posted a thread about Claud's eyebrows looking weird. She was very military and rugged looking in Season 1, then slowly they made Aeryn more feminine. I think she looked the best, most "Aeryn-like" in Season 3, but in Season 4, something weird happened!! They put a lot of white-frosty eyeshadow above her eyelids to define her brows. Whoa! It was a little to shiny. I think they wanted to give her that pregnant "GLOW" maybe, lol. And dude, what is the deal with the hair? Claudia has beautiful, naturally thick hair, but I think in Season four they use a wig. I am pretty sure Claudia cut her hair or something. The wig did not look right to me, too well-manicured and too long, just not "Aeryn". But kudos to the make-up for their work on Gigi!! Chiana was always AWESOME, her wigs were cool, every one. Never a bad Chiana hair day. Post me your thoughts!!! Love you scapers!! :spew: :beer:
vhsiv
10-24-2003, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by Jude
We know John and Aeryn procreated... I believe the the Sebacean term for it is 'recreated' - as in whiffleball, soccer, stupid drinking games, that sort of thing...
aerynstar23
10-24-2003, 02:33 PM
Hey Procreate/Recreate it's all in good fun. LOL
:multi:
Originally posted by vhsiv
I believe the the Sebacean term for it is 'recreated' - as in whiffleball, soccer, stupid drinking games, that sort of thing...
She said in "The Way We Wern't" something along the lines "...selected for procreation" also, "We were lovers" and "were intimate"
We can't be sure of which term is official...
RydraWong
10-27-2003, 02:38 AM
"Procreation" and "recreation" have very different meanings in the show.
In English, "procreation" means producing offspring, and it's that that Aeryn says in TWWW is "assigned" (http://www.johnskeedvabbq.com/Transcripts/twww-r.html).
That's different from "recreation" (which is evidently used by the PKs to refer to purely casual, "recreational" sex).
So baby-making is assigned. On the other hand, you can "recreate" with whoever you want, but it's not supposed to lead to emotional connection of any kind (and given the stasis thing, shouldn't lead to reproduction either).
And "lovers" is evidently not an official or accepted term for PKs - Aeryn struggles to find the words, and John comments, "I don’t think I’ve ever heard you use that word before".
SaraD
10-27-2003, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by RydraWong
"Procreation" and "recreation" have very different meanings in the show.
In English, "procreation" means producing offspring, and it's that that Aeryn says in TWWW is "assigned" (http://www.johnskeedvabbq.com/Transcripts/twww-r.html).
That's different from "recreation" (which is evidently used by the PKs to refer to purely casual, "recreational" sex).
So baby-making is assigned. On the other hand, you can "recreate" with whoever you want, but it's not supposed to lead to emotional connection of any kind (and given the stasis thing, shouldn't lead to reproduction either).
And "lovers" is evidently not an official or accepted term for PKs - Aeryn struggles to find the words, and John comments, "I don’t think I’ve ever heard you use that word before".
Her mother used the term, though, didn't she? When she visited Aeryn in the dorm. So the PK have the concept of an emotional attachment and are capable of such an attachment, otherwise they wouldn't need to have such draconian measures in place to keep such things suppressed.
RydraWong
10-27-2003, 08:32 AM
Her mother used the term, though, didn't she?
Yup, I think so. But I'd guess it's an "underground" concept, not part of the official emotional vocabulary.
stlscape
10-27-2003, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by SaraD
Her mother used the term, though, didn't she? When she visited Aeryn in the dorm.
Perhaps Mom was conscripted, just as Crais was. If so, she'd have been exposed to what we viewers consider normal relationships.
RydraWong
10-27-2003, 09:11 AM
And the presence of some people conscripted as children would mean that PKs might well hear about the possibility of long-term romantic relationships and parent-child relationships, even if they weren't conscripts themselves.
Plus of course they see other cultures - e.g. the Luxans - doing these things, even if they're considered "inferior".
But it's not part of the "official" emotional vocabulary. It's what you hear in whispers, illicit relationships, etc. Definitely not what you learn in school!
Officially, you just have assigned breeding on the one hand, and casual "recreational" sex on the other.
And a very strong message that "emotional attachments" are bad and dangerous - they "distort your thinking" (as Aeryn says in SOD) and could distract you in battle. Very, very illicit for soldiers.
aerynstar23
10-27-2003, 09:35 PM
Yeah, that makes sense to have two separate words for PK's especially regarding "stasis" and the "biological needs" of PK's Aeryn talks about in TWWW. :notworthy
Right... Transcript time I figure...we are all right one way or another!
FADE OUT/FADE IN (THE PRESENT):
[Camera perspective looking down on John and Aeryn sitting together on the work out mat, the peacekeeper symbol fills the screen as they sit facing each other across the red triangle]
Aeryn: Crichton... you might have noticed that at times I've... kept you at a distance.
Crichton: Many times... Vast... Distances
Aeryn: There's a reason for that.
Crichton: Just one? ... (pause) ... Go ahead.
Aeryn: Most Peacekeepers are bred... and reared, for one purpose... military service. Procreation is... assigned. There's no such thing as a life long mate.
Crichton: But you have relationships... the male-female kind?
Aeryn: Of course, as many and as often as you want. Peacekeeper High Command understands the troop's biological needs. Only, you don't connect with anyone openly... and never with any longevity.... (sighs) ... I guess--the point is--my relationships, back then, tended to be somewhat ... (pause)
Crichton: Empty?
Aeryn: Painful.
Crichton: Wh-what does this have to do with the tape? What... ah... this is about that guy... Velorek.
FLASHBACK PERSPECTIVE (THREE CYCLES AGO)
[Aeryn enters her quarters on Moya, bag in hand. Velorek turns in profile as she enters, but she doesn't `seem' to notice him.]
FLASH FORWARD PERSPECTIVE (THE PRESENT)
Crichton: What about him?
Aeryn: He... um...
FLASHBACK PERSPECTIVE (THREE CYCLES AGO)
[Aeryn takes her jacket off, Velorek stalks toward her in the darkness, approaching slowly from behind--she drops the jacket on the bed. Velorek grabs her from behind, spinning around to face him, trapping her in his arms]
FLASH FORWARD PERSPECTIVE (THE PRESENT)
Crichton (whispering): He... what?
Aeryn: ...we...
FLASHBACK PERSPECTIVE (THREE CYCLES AGO)
[Aeryn struggles in his arms, he clasps a hand over her mouth, and she pushes forward. They both fall onto the bed. Velorek slowly removes his hand from her mouth--she smiles, and ... they kiss.]
FLASH FORWARD PERSPECTIVE (THE PRESENT)
Aeryn: ... we were lovers.
Crichton: Lovers-- (Exhales a brief humorless laugh, and looks away... looking down at the mat) Lovers... um... interesting... I-I don't think I've ever heard you use that word ... before... So. uh. ...D... you...
Crichton : Did you love him?
Aeryn (Looks up and away): I felt something for him that I never felt with any of the other men I... recreated with.
(Close up on John as he reacts to his news... eyes narrow slightly and lips tighten)
Aeryn: I didn't know what it was, but... (Looks back at John), I guess now I'd say that it was love.
padmeskywalker
10-29-2003, 10:59 AM
I'm sorry, TWWW?? Which show??? I havn't got all the 'short' names in mem yet.
aerynstar23
10-29-2003, 11:32 AM
"The Way We Weren't" :ewink:
padmeskywalker
10-29-2003, 11:54 AM
thanks
SaraD
10-30-2003, 10:16 AM
Do we ever really see a non-military Sebacean community or planet? I don't think so, and I guess that's because the crew are hiding out in the unchartered territories. If they were in more traveled areas, would there be a cluster of Sebacean planets?
The only example I can think of is Crais and the flashback to the day he and his brother were inscripted, and we didn't see much there.
Originally posted by SaraD
Do we ever really see a non-military Sebacean community or planet? I don't think so, and I guess that's because the crew are hiding out in the unchartered territories. If they were in more traveled areas, would there be a cluster of Sebacean planets?
In "Look at the Princess" trilogy...
The Royal Planet, they hate the peacekeepers and all the attempts PK's have tried at making aliences (I think thats the word I am looking for) have failed...
SpaceMonkey
12-05-2003, 08:13 PM
It's my understanding that Crais grew up in a rural community-- his closeness to his brother was a result of his being part of a family unit as he grew up. That was something unusual in a Peacekeeper captain.
This suggests worlds of Sebacian civilians... they might be happily living in peace, blissfully unaware of the activities of their military around the galaxy.
JadedLegend3
12-31-2003, 02:41 PM
I think I made up a thread about the whole two Johns thing. It got very confusing and gave everyone headaches! LOL It should be somewhere in the Farscape Discussion pages... Hope it helps.
Jacqui :love:
divinedaydreams
01-22-2004, 01:29 PM
I believe in DNA MS Aeryn says she knows there are Sebaccean colonies.
The Keeper
02-04-2004, 04:00 AM
I watched The Locket last nite and i couldnt help but wonder...
if aeryn got pregnant with baby crichton in 'A human Reaction' and the fact that in one 'alternate reality' in The Locket Aeryn had 3 sons....couldnt one of those sons actually have been John's kid? which could of given a 1/3 chance that Aeryn's granddaughter was crichton's grandaughter aswell.
I know that they eventually fixed the time thing and they went back to b4 it all happened, but do u guys remember Stark sayin what he did rite at the end about that other 'time' actually did exist.
im not good at explaining things but do u get wat i mean?
...could one of aeryn's son's in 'the locket' could also of been crichton's son???
scapergin
02-04-2004, 04:18 AM
yes, but that's assuming aeryn even got pregnant in AHR or on Talyn.
which brings us back to is the baby tj or mj.
btw i understood you perfectly:aok: i also have trouble trying to explain what i mean so your not alone:D
Chi27
02-19-2004, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by RydraWong
Well, "being close" doesn't always result in pregnancy every time :D . The baby might have been conceived during AHR - or it might not have been.
And AHR was before the twinning, so if the baby was conceived then, then both Johns would be the father ("equal and original").
I did see an article where it was mentioned that apparently DK had considered whether or not it should be revealed which John was the baby's father, and decided against it on the grounds that it doesn't matter to John - emotionally, he's the baby's father regardless of whether it's technically "his" or not.
Which I like. Parental love ain't all about biology, as any adoptive parent will tell you.
I think what bothers John in s4 is not the possibility that the baby might not be "his" (he's already considered and accepted that) - it's Aeryn's failure to tell him about the pregnancy or to trust him.
I'm new around these parts and had to throw in my 2 cents here. I agree that being "close" isn't going to always lead to a pregnancy. Just to clarify -- she said that John was the father -- just not which one fathered the baby, right? She thinks that Moya John fathered it. But since the both twins were equal and original a DNA test isn't going to prove which one fathered the baby. Sheesh! And we think human reproduction is complicated :D
NebariNookiee
02-19-2004, 02:20 PM
I really feel that neither one of the Crichton twins are the father -- I honestly think that the 'original pre-twin' Crichton is the father.
Anyone remember "A Human Reaction?" The deleted "morning after" scene tells it all.
divinedaydreams
02-19-2004, 06:26 PM
I don't remember the episode name but it was early season two where John asks Aeryn how many times they've been close. Meaning friendship close but she takes it the other way and says just that once. They both speak really softly and seemed embarreshed because D' Argo is in the room.
So I go with original John.
Personally, I agree that it was AHR. But maybe I just want that to be the case.
padmeskywalker
02-23-2004, 06:19 PM
I kinda like the 'AHR' angle too...
Maybe D'Argo's the daddy.
"I'm your daddy."
Moya's Starburst
10-02-2005, 10:06 AM
Up to Unrealized Reality, Aeryn was not sure who the daddy was. It could have been John's (whether it's MJ or TJ doesn't really matter. Same DNA.) or someone else's. The only thing she knows at this point is that she was pregnant before she left Moya (Season 3 finale) to join her assassination squad or whatever it was. She found that out when they all went to the command carrier in ITLD.
IMO, she was confused, too. A long term relationship with all of the emotional baggage that incorporates is an idea that is still fairly new to her. She knows she wants John. But there are definite trust issues between the two of them. She is afraid to do something that will push him further away, and she felt that telling him about the baby without knowing who the father was would do that. So she doesn't tell him. And, ironically, the very thing she was trying to avoid is what ends up happening. John feels she doesn't trust him enough to tell him the truth and distances himself.
"Love makes you do the wacky" -- Willow Rosenburg
Yeah and to expand on that, Aeryn also said that to get the baby out of stasis you need a surgeon to do so, so she found out about it, quite accidently, as a normal human would,on the command carrier, and that tell's me that she didn't know which "John" was the father,Not which bloke she had before could also be the dad, That remark she made confused me as, if she was pregnant before she would of known, but she didn't know until she was on baord the carrier!, so the baby might of been out of stasis anyway like human pregnancies?
Hope i'm making sense here!
Moya's Starburst
10-02-2005, 10:14 AM
Oh i almost forgot to add, I think the baby is John's, Aeryn had a dna test in the ep before bad timing, and She said it was his, so either it had been conceived before he got twinned or after, if it had been conceived before it is both the John's, if it had been conceived after it was the on on Talyn's as the latter one died it might as well be the Moya John's as the other one is dead and he is the only one who is left, that can match the baby's dna.(It is his, as mentioned above)
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