Alias 11/2 Discussion thread. (Spoilers)

[Twich]

Spoilers will happen here...so if you haven't seen it....might want to avoid this whole thread. :D













Okay....I was bored. Bored. Bored. This show just isn't holding my attention anymore...and it saddens me. Is there anyone else out there feeling the frustration? *sigh*

[vacantlook]

Tonight's episode felt like the normal punch in the face that I get from watching it wasn't really there. I don't know exactly what was up, but I'm thinking maybe the show's producers didn't intend for us viewers to already know that EvilFrancie was coming back but last week's advertisement for tonight's episode totally spoiled that "surprise," so EvilFrancie walking up to Sark felt a bit deflated.

It wasn't a bad episode, but it wasn't amazing either. Hopefully, next week's will be more exciting and shocking than tonight's.

[grinner]

I admit it... I was flipping between Fox and Alias. Malcom was much better... but I don't think that Arrested Development will last.

[Third EYe]

Drums

No good?

I think she's gonna yes

because of the rock jam song?

In spite of the rock jam song.

Bye Marshall

Rock n Roll!


Just that exchange alone made the ep worth watching.

.............morning noon and night..............morning noon and night............

..............we had sushi................

[grinner]

Originally posted by Third EYe
Drums

No good?

I think she's gonna yes

because of the rock jam song?

In spite of the rock jam song.

Bye Marshall

Rock n Roll!


Just that exchange alone made the ep worth watching.

.............morning noon and night..............morning noon and night............

..............we had sushi................ yeah... that was the best part of this episode... I am actually liking computer geek more and more... he kicks eema.

[Lord Loser]

I don't know about things. Alias is starting to get REALLY formulaic. I see the overall problem is that Alias is starting to employ more stand alone eps rather than continue the arcing story that was its draw.

Here's the skinny: 1) Sid runs around with THO's in skimpy clothes; 2) The bad guys have a line on some device that leads to a device that threatens the world; 3) Sid gets assigned to stop the bad guys from obtaining the little device; 4) Due to no fault of her own, Sid fails; 5) CIA gets a lead on big device; 6) Sid and Vaughn are assigned to stop the bad guys from obtaining big device; 7) Sid and Vaughn find the bad guys, Sid kicks (literally) ass, Vaughn shows up too late to help, but it doesn't matter because they've stopped the bad guys; 8) Everthings ok, except that a hook is supposedly set to bring you back next week.

The problem is that everythings becoming neatly wrapped up in each and every ep but the hooks are becoming smaller and smaller. In the past, the overall story is what kept me coming back, to see how each part fit into the whole story. The arc, if you will. They will soon find out that if they frell with what made the show successful, they will soon lose their viewership, at least mine.

[grinner]

Hey LL... didn't you remember last year when TPTB in charge of Alias changed the format? They got rid of all the different spygroups and had Syd go work for the CIA... that is when TPTB destroyed the arcing storylines. TPTB were told that Alias was to difficult to viewers... the viewers had to think to much in order to understand the show... so it was dumbed down... to this formulaic plot. I miss arcing storylines... oh well at least I still have 24

[Lord Loser]

Yeah, I remember the 'change'. All I can say, is what a bunch of frelling morons. Season 1 was a smash success. It rocked and everyone knew it. So here come the suits and say, hey we've got a hit on our hands. Let's change it.

As I'm quite often around the crass and vulgar, I get in on more colorful euphamisms than some. One of them was from an old baler mechanic, who, when asked a question, replied

(Don't read this if you're easily offended)
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(I warned you)

"You know how you keep a hard-on? Don't f*ck with it."

'nuff said.

[vacantlook]

I am so damned tired of hearing about amazing shows being dumbed down because the executives of studios think that it's too difficult for viewers to understand. Here's what I gotta say: maybe the stupid viewers need to get around to increasing their intelligence. Being dumb is not cool, no matter how much you want to think it is. A large number of really intelligent people have very nice jobs that bring them in very sizable bank every year. People with money often spend money. Television shows need people to spend money on the products that are advertised during the show in order to keep advertising dollars coming in. Intelligent people like tv too! If they keep dumbing down every intelligent show that comes along so all the stupid people in this country will participate in herd mentality and watch, I think I'll go insane. I'm so sick and tired of amazing shows being told that they make people have to think too much. Let the idiots that don't actually like using their brains watch Punk'd on MTV or some other equally stupid show and leave the intelligent shows alone so us intelligent folk actually have something to watch.

[MrVesham]

Spot-on, I doubt you'll find many folks around these parts that feel differently.

This episode was, unfortunately, the best of this season. It did have elements that made it feel a little more Aliasy. Still, it's recycled, oversimplified S1 stuff, only not as well produced. It's Alias Lite... Alias: Personal Learning Edition... Alias For Dummies. Whatever you wanna call it.

Goddamnit, I miss SD-6. =/

[Mickie]

I didn't get to see it. It was pre-empted for a frelling Vikings game (and we didn't even win).

[Twich]

Here's a recap for ya Mickie...

Beware everyone..it's a blow by blow recap....so it's DEFINITELY spoilered. LOL



Season 3: Episode 6 - "The Nemesis"
11/2/2003
Sloane tells Syd that intel about The Covenant's next move is encoded in an image of the Vatican on a web site. She says that he'll never have her trust or Jack's friendship.

At the CIA, Dixon says The Covenant is after device that can interface with Russia's launch control, given them access to their nuclear arsenal. Its designer, Robert Lang, altered his appearance and is on the run. He is to retrieve new identity papers from Heinrich Strauss at a Milan nightclub. The Covenant wants to grab Lang and the device. Dixon assigns a reluctant Syd to be Sloane's handler and says Allison Doren is alive. An unnerved Syd later says she will kill Allison.

Sark meets Allison in Strassburg, rekindling their love. Allison explains that The Covenant found her and Syd after their fight. She recovered in 6 months and has been working for them since. Sark says will find his father's murderer and Allison swears Syd will pay for her scars.

Lindsay tells Lauren that a Russian government source has info that could lead to Lazarey's murder and that The Covenant has moles in the Russian government. He swears Lauren to secrecy and sends her to meet the source in Moscow. Lauren lies to Vaughn about the trip. He gives Lauren a database of Lazarey's phone calls, suggesting the murderer may be traced through calls.

In Milan, Syd is disguised as a Euro clubber. Vaughn uses a Marshall-made mini x-ray camera, rigged via Syd's necklace, which can spot facial reconstruction. Sark and Allison appear. Lang retrieves his papers and bolts when Allison kills Strauss. They all chases Lang, but Allison finds him first and extracts a tooth before killing him. Syd discovers the body, whereupon Allison knocks her unconscious.

Back at the CIA, the x-ray images of Lang's tooth reveal a filling that is a Radio Frequency Identification chip. Lang used the chip to open the launching device. Lauren discovers a call from Lazarey's murderer and tracks it, through voice analysis, to the London address KNG Microtech. The office is empty but Lauren discovers it was leased to Julia Thorne.

Syd forces Sloane to meet with Sark and Allison in Prague and get them to divulge the location of the device. Using his cover as a double-agent, Sloane coaxes Sloane to admitting the device is in a vault in Sophia, Bulgaria. Syd makes Sloane ask about her past. Allison says The Covenant ordered her not to kill Syd because they want to retrieve something her memory. This makes Syd want to undergo CIA memory retrieval, which Jack vehemently opposes.

Dixon sends Vaughn and Syd to Sofia. He privately admits to Syd that he wants Allison dead because she murdered his wife. Using a tracking device, Syd and Vaughn find Allison in an abandoned building in Sofia and give chase. Allison corners Syd and says that Syd had discovered a formula for a medication in the Rambaldi journal — which was ultimately used to heal Allison's wounds. Syd grabs Allison's gun and shoots. She alive, but barely. They find the device on her body.

Syd's suspicions are raised when Vaughn knows nothing about the formula. They find the ambulance overturned, the medics dead and Allison missing.


;)

[NYPinTA]

I couldn't put my finger on what was missing this season, but I think LL hid it right on the head. The eps are formula now and that makes it boring.
Plus, the show is missing the duality that she existed in in the first 2 seasons. She had her friends that didn't know what she did as well as being a double agent. Now, she's just Syd going on missions. Not as interesting.
This ep was the best of this season so far. 4 things I liked about it:
Drum session. Cool.
The Syd/Vaughn banter while she was in the club.
Dixon: Kill the Bitch. (oh- there is his missing personality....)
The Anti-Vaughn. I forget his name, but his partner that is always making jokes. He just cracks me up....

So, is Francibot indestructable now? Is that what they are trying to get at?

And I have a Season 2 question: Christian Slater was on last season as a Doc who was kidnapped. Did they resolve that? I can't remember.

I guess my main problem with this season is that they left off on one hell of a cliffhanger and then... nothing. She was missing two years and she comes back and just jumps right back into her role as secret agent? Just doesn't seem right.

[Mickie]

Thanks Twich!!


(mutter, mutter, mutter. Frelling sports)

[tesseract]

I agree that the show's arcs have been greatly simplified since Season 1. I'm not so sure it's that most viewers are *actually* dumb, but that network execs *believe* they are. For instance, I don't think Alias has seen a huge spike in ratings since "the change," but I could be wrong.

During the first season and the first part of season 2, I would end most episodes with my jaw on the floor. Since "the change," it seems they've settled into more predictable, if still enjoyable, patterns. That said, most TV series are formulaic in some sense--the repetition of themes, situations, etc. is part of what gives a show its character. It's the combination of repetition and variation that I think makes TV series appealing. It is possible that Alias has been falling too heavily on the first part of that equation recently. But they still have nice touches every now and then that remind me why I like the show (like Sloane becoming a double agent for the Covenant and the CIA).

[grinner]

Originally posted by tesseract

During the first season and the first part of season 2, I would end most episodes with my jaw on the floor. I prefered the Jaw droping episodes than this dren that they are giving us.

[canadadoc]

Well I had the (mis) fortune of watching this Alias AFTER watching Enterprise (actually I could not bear to watch Enterprise - it was so slow and soooo boring - sorry off topic). This means that after an hour of sleeping through Enterprise I thought OH BOY - ALIAS will be a pick me up . Well it was (relatively) until we got more of the wife/guy/old girlfriend crap going on,including that "wife/husband going on a trip scene and in their undies too", the silly "Vaughn - put on my locket thing" and that really terrible set of scenes in the club with the infrared gun etc etc etc.and then the nasty evil woman rose again in the ambulance.

Sorry if I make no sense but this show used to be interesting and way out there and relatively non formulaic. The action scenes flowed well and were wonderfully stylistic. Too bad it is now boring - but less boring than Enterprise.

So I guess it is easier to understand and to follow along- and the characters do talk faster than anyone on Enterprise but I miss the old Alias !!

All just my opinion of course.

c.

[Twich]

I had a good friend whose MOTHER got into the show sometime after the big SuperBowl ep. She LOVED the storylines, etc. He was bored at that point, but pleased that his mom liked the show. Then things started picking up again...trying to get back into the old Alias swing, and he was starting to get excited about the show again. He would call his mom to see if she watched and SHE was getting bored.

He couldn't help but laugh. For some reason this show can't please the shippers AND the non-shippers (what would we be called? Story-iers?) .

Check this letter on Ask Matt. I couldn't help but :snicker: when I read it:

Question:
What are your and other critics' thoughts on Alias this season? I know a lot of people haven't been liking it as much as they often do. I think it's just as good as usual. I love the fact that they're slowing it down to deal with the Syd/Vaughn/Lauren thing and focusing less on the missions. I know that'll change soon, so I think it's crucial that they're laying the emotional groundwork now. I also love that after four years (if you count the time Sydney was gone), Jack and Syd are finally building a stable relationship. My only hope is that they'll use Dixon more because it seems what happened to him in the first part of last season is happening to him again. — Ally

Matt:
First off, let me just say that I could fill a weekly forum just about Alias given the volume of mail this show continues to generate. I'm sorry I can't address everyone's comments or complaints, but there are other shows out there, hard as that may be to believe. But few, I'll admit, that stimulate so much passionate buzz, which is why I'm leading off the column with Alias again. (Keep in mind that all of this is being written before Sunday night's episode aired with the much-anticipated return of Evil Francie.)

To generalize from the comments I've been hearing, from fellow critics and from my mailbag, I would say one constant has been the ambivalent-to-negative reaction to the character of Lauren and the actress playing her. It was inevitable that die-hard fans of the Syd-Vaughn relationship would be unforgiving toward her, and one of the more entertaining responses came from Patricia R., who in her rant suggested renaming the show Days of Our Spies. She writes, in part: "Vaughn and Lauren have zero chemistry, and Lauren is uninteresting, annoying and the actress isn't very good. They're trying to shove her and the marriage down my throat with all the kissy-poo scenes, and it just made me gag too much to keep watching. I can't believe that J.J. Abrams called this triangle mature, sexy, creative and compelling! It's so not any of those things! And, anyway, you'd think he'd have gotten his triangle ya-yas out on Felicity. I thought Sydney and Vaughn were a couple that had so much drama built into their relationship that they'd never get boring, if they were written with any care. They were just as interesting and involving after they got together, and were really something special. But now they're just another standard TV couple, with lame, contrived, annoying obstacles thrown in their way. Those are a dime a dozen. What a waste of their fabulous chemistry."

I think this is overstating it a bit — for one, how great was Vaughn's guilt-ridden dream that Sydney had stabbed him again — but I have yet to warm to Melissa George's performance as this problematic character. She has no electricity in her scenes with Jennifer Garner, and sparks don't fly between her and Michael Vartan. This is a big problem for me, but not enough to keep me from siding with those who, like Ally above, are exercising patience with a show that has rewarded our loyalty time and again. Basically, I'm enjoying Alias this season, but am still waiting to be blown away. Given the show's track record for shocking revelations and reversals, I'm content to wait a bit longer. On smaller issues: I love Sloane becoming a double agent (much like Sydney at the beginning of the series), I howled when Marshall smacked Sydney on the rear during their mission, and I agree with those frustrated by Dixon staying behind a desk. Much as I like the personable Greg Grunberg as Agent Weiss, he's miscast as an action figure. I miss Dixon going into battle at Sydney's side.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I miss ALL of it!!!!!

[Lord Loser]

Originally posted by tesseract
That said, most TV series are formulaic in some sense--the repetition of themes, situations, etc. is part of what gives a show its character. It's the combination of repetition and variation that I think makes TV series appealing. There really is nothing new on television, but. Cut and paste scripts aren't worth watching. There's nothing wrong with taking a worn out idea and putting your spin on it (i.e Alias season 1). But don't recycle a dead idea without changing it (i.e. Alias season 3). It's quickly becoming used dren, and I'll check out if it doesn't pick up.

[vacantlook]

And, anyway, you'd think he'd have gotten his triangle ya-yas out on Felicity.

Why is it that so many many many stories seem to fall back on the have a "romantic triangle" thing in order to have some form of personal drama in the story? It's usually not even a triangle anyway! Triangles have three points (aka three characters) and each is connected to each other. So, for it to be a true romantic triangle, each person in the triangle would have to be attracted to each of the other two in the triangle. What most most "romantic triangles" are are line segments with two people of one gender as the points at either end of the line segement and the one person of the other gender as the centerpoint.

Oh well, I rant too much on some things; I just get so irked by so much.

[Lord Loser]

Speaking of rants...

People are of a sex (male/female), words are of a gender(masculine/feminine/neuter).

Probably should go into the high horse thread...

[vacantlook]

Unless, of course, if one is using the third listed definition of the word gender as defined at dictionary.com.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gender

gen·der
n.
1. Grammar.
a. A grammatical category used in the classification of nouns, pronouns, adjectives, and, in some languages, verbs that may be arbitrary or based on characteristics such as sex or animacy and that determines agreement with or selection of modifiers, referents, or grammatical forms.
b. One category of such a set.
c. The classification of a word or grammatical form in such a category.
d. The distinguishing form or forms used.

2. Sexual identity, especially in relation to society or culture.

3. a.The condition of being female or male; sex.
b.Females or males considered as a group: expressions used by one gender.

Usage Note: Traditionally, gender has been used primarily to refer to the grammatical categories of “masculine,” “feminine,” and “neuter,” but in recent years the word has become well established in its use to refer to sex-based categories, as in phrases such as gender gap and the politics of gender. This usage is supported by the practice of many anthropologists, who reserve sex for reference to biological categories, while using gender to refer to social or cultural categories. According to this rule, one would say The effectiveness of the medication appears to depend on the sex (not gender) of the patient, but In peasant societies, gender (not sex) roles are likely to be more clearly defined. This distinction is useful in principle, but it is by no means widely observed, and considerable variation in usage occurs at all levels.



In other words, since I'm not writing some paper for a college class or professional journal but only a piss-ant post on a little ol' message board, I'm well within tolerance for using the word gender the way I did.

But I guess I do get the greater point that while my romantic line-segment statement would be more precise that popular usage tends to be something that can be accepted even if not completely precise the same way sex/gender works. Oh well. Another instance of when I should have just kept my mouth shut I guess.