Um...another Leviathan question

[Judith]

What do you guys think? Are the Leviathan gods actually deities, or just self important bioengineers?

[JrMissToughChick]

Bioengineers, Higher Beings, I don't know let me think about it. They kind of reminded me of Vorlons.

Much Love,
~JrMTC~

[JadedLegend3]

I don't think their deities in any regard. I don't know why, just never got that impression. Generally, when someone says they're a god, I tend not to believe them. Guess I'll be in trouble if I ever meet Christ during the Second Coming! LOL


Jacqui :love:

[JrMissToughChick]

Thought about it. No they are defanatly Vorlons, Not gods.

Much Love,
~JrMTC~

PS: Vorlons made Living ships too

[Frunium Slip]

If all the Leviathans believe they are deities, then I guess they are, to Leviathans, just not to 9th Level Pa'u's (just seems to many apostrophes if you ask me).

All you gotta do is believe...

[stellar]

They're God-like aliens. However they are the builders and are therefore deities to Leviathons.

[JrMissToughChick]

She was a tenth Level Pa'u not a ninth level pa'u, Do you want to be serious? I don't know I never thought about it they kinda remind me of Vorlons or Greek Gods with olive leafs around thier heads? I don't know.

Much Love,
~JrMTC~

Add: thinking about it again it all kind of reminded me of Startrek 5 the one where they go to the center of the galaxy and meet a alien that claims to be god then trys to kill them, "why would god need a starship?" if they claim to be your god then try to kill you I think there is a problem.

[Ouroboros]

Guys with neat tech and a god complex. It may have been intentional it may have not been but they certainly don't discourage their creations from viewing them as gods do they.

The one we saw in LatP looked like the guy on a "little Caesars" box.

[Judith]

Yeah. I guess I asked because I definately got the impression that they were disingenuous, and it was something that went beyond their deception of Zhaan. But I'm not sure what's giving me that vibe, cause I don't have any hard proof.

[oorat]

well, they did make the leviathans. so, they are moya's creators. so they would be moya's gods. has to what they are, well, if deities are real, they then they have to be some form of living being. so really in the end, a god is just a very advanced, or evolved, etc. being that has powers or technologies beyond our current level of understanding.

[witchdoctor]

Yeah Oorat, that is kind of like the saying that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

I don't think they are gods, just a species with very advanced bioengineering and other technology. They do seem to let the Leviathans call them gods, but whether the Leviathans do so by happenstance or design, I don't know. Certaintly they are the creators (to the Leviathans), by definition.

If we are going to debate whether or not they are gods, we probably need to define what is meant by gods here. I don't really have a good one. You could say something like immortal supernatural non-corporeal beings with "godlike" powers, but the supernatural is vague and godlike is using a term to define itself.

[fiona-maria]

Human beings have identified higher technology as "magic" before. Now we just think that science can explain everything.*grin* (We are SO willing to delude ourselves!*grin*)

As far as the Leviathans are concerned, their Creators ARE gods. Heck, if we Create, don't we consider ourselves gods? It isn't called a "God" complex for nothing!*grin* The power of life and death? There is a very good reason why doctors experience this mindset.

But the Leviathans' perception is, they are gods. And reality is very often defined by one's perception. The Aztecs thought Cortes was a god.*rolls eyes* Perception again. And what did Frankenstein's monster think of his Creator? (I know that bringing the monster into the conversation is another kettle of fish entirely, seeing as it was a "criminal" brain that was installed in the monster's head, so the question then becomes, is that what made it a monster?)

Witchdoctor, that is a good point...what is meant by "god?" How is that defined for the purposes of this conversation?

Fiona

[Frankiexq]

are we talking about bab5 vorlons? or is there an "earthly" historical/literary reference i'm missing.

well if God had friends, they wouldn't think of Him as a deity. creation grants the creator the designation of his choice.

[JrMissToughChick]

B5 Yeah Did you also note my startrek refs I think this thread shows how much of a geek I am!

Much Love,
~JrMTC~

[brokendj23]

They're God-like aliens
yeah, but what did JC say? "another god-like alien...I hate god-like aliens!"

the thing I don't get, is that obviously gunship leviathins are a no-no because they can be used for "evil" or whatever, but are peaceful leviathins all just intended to be prison ships? If we're to go by the way all the "living quarters" doors are, it would make one think so...If such is the case, than a prison ship has a certain same doom type effect on people...Furthermore, obviously the deities were a bit pissed about Talyn, due to the fact of him being under, or at least intended for PK use, yet we don't know how many leviathins are under PK control collars, and if we're to judge how moya's crew were all mostly misunderstood or wrongly accused prisoners, the same can be assumed for the rest of them, which in itself seems to be the use not originally intended for the craft, so why then, wouldn't the leviathin creators step in and shut down every one that fell under PK use....Especially if we go bythe whole explanation of "a leviathin is only as worthy as the ones who control it" (i dont remember the exact line) theory... obviously the PKs misuse the leviathins altogether....I'm done now, sorry it was so long.

[Judith]

Originally posted by brokendj23


Furthermore, obviously the deities were a bit pissed about Talyn, due to the fact of him being under, or at least intended for PK use, yet we don't know how many leviathins are under PK control collars, and if we're to judge how moya's crew were all mostly misunderstood or wrongly accused prisoners, the same can be assumed for the rest of them, which in itself seems to be the use not originally intended for the craft, so why then, wouldn't the leviathin creators step in and shut down every one that fell under PK use....Especially if we go bythe whole explanation of "a leviathin is only as worthy as the ones who control it" (i dont remember the exact line) theory...

I was under the impression that the reason the Peacekeepers can get away with misusing the Leviathans is because of the control collar. It seemed to me that Moya had to go to that exact spot for the gods to have any control over her (yet another reason I think they aren't gods), and I think the control collars prevent the Leviathans from up and leaving while under PK control.