Taking the Stone

[JrMissToughChick]

Why does everyone dislike this episode? I thought it was cool a planet of teenagers. It works better than a planet of lawers. and how the did it, It made scense so what is your opinion on it?

[blueaeryn]

I think many people just look at the outer shell of this episode and don't see what's underneath. The glaring fact is the beginning of a role reversal between John and Aeryn and the foreshadowing of the neural chip.

My favorite line is when John knocks out Chiana and tries to force her back on the ship and Aeryn stops him. It is where the line "Pin up for frontal assualt" comes from and it is a great line.

Then when she talks him out of it he asks when she became so insightful and she looks funny and says I understand loss and not to be outdone John says so do I.

It showed J/A as partners almost parents to the wayward Chiana. And a great line comes at the end after Chiana buries her brother's life disk and she turns to John and says "Let's get out of this dead place."

Some great stuff there if you see it.

[Riot Chik]

I thought it was a great episode.

[Ghil]

It was good, but is far away from the best of the season:p

[JrMissToughChick]

I never said it was the best I just have been hearing things like it's one of the worst witch I don't beleave. I think it was a great Gen divide ep. I thought the eating the mushroom thing was John's first real "crazy act" of season 2 and I loved how Aeryn said, "lately, I've always thought you were crazy," it just shows how far they came, because it was a joke. Yet a year ago...I mean cycle ago... it probaly wouldn't have been.

~JrMTC~

[Imlego]

Me, me! I hate this one! Well, not as much as I do Vitas Mortis but it really isn't very good. Simply put: it's poorly written and the story doesn't have any meat to it. There is some foreshadowing but as an individual episode it hasn't got very good dramatic tension. John's fungus-eating was funny but that's about it.

[Darth Buddha]

What exactly foreshadowed the neural clone in this episode?

[fandom]

Originally posted by Darth Buddha
What exactly foreshadowed the neural clone in this episode?

Crichton asking Aeryn if he had been acting crazy lately.

I really didn't like this episode, the one thing I like about it is seeing Aeryn becoming 'insightful', and maybe that the natives don't listen to them in the end.

[Madre Farbot]

Originally posted by JrMissToughChick
I never said it was the best I just have been hearing things like it's one of the worst witch I don't beleave. I think it was a great Gen divide ep. I thought the eating the mushroom thing was John's first real "crazy act" of season 2 and I loved how Aeryn said, "lately, I've always thought you were crazy," it just shows how far they came, because it was a joke. Yet a year ago...I mean cycle ago... it probaly wouldn't have been.

~JrMTC~

Maybe I'm just wierd, but I really enjoyed this episode - it brought back a lot of memories. :rollin:

You know something JrMissToughChick there was something you said that made a lot of sense; Something about John Crichton's first crazy act. I think these crazy acts have influenced other eps, especially A Clockwork Nebari?

Anyway, despite what others might say I found this to be a powerful ep regarding Chiana's being. Remember, she was trying to get someone to share her desperate feelings when she knew that she only or her own kind were able to understand this sudden emptiness about losing her brother. Somehow she had to come to terms with who she was, and the only people who were there for her were these strange almost Nebari looking wierdos.

Ok, admittedly John and Aeryn did try to make amends, but by that time Chiana was already commited to her feelings - she had to take the stone.

[who45]

It wasn't my favorite, but I like it.

[sny]

Having just rewatched it not very long ago, I can answer. I like the episode, but it's among my least favorite, at least now. I can't recall what my original reaction to it was, really. Been too long. I'm sure I loved it well enough then, though, because I didn't cringe when reading the title or anything.

I think the only reason I don't like it as much as others now is because it focuses so much on laying down background and basic character development for Chi, and parts of that process seem "slow" in the episode. Really, even when it first aired, the only "new" thing you really got from Chi here was her talking about her brother a bit. Now, since I already know all about her brother, rewatching is a bit draggy in bits.

Unlike, say, The Way We Weren't, which is similar in that it gives you vital background about both Aeryn and Pilot, in particular. That one, I could watch repeatedly and never feel it's slow, because like all good Farscape, it's jam packed with action and fascinating acting. Yes, Pilot does some fascinating acting in it. That's one episode where I think you can best argue to doubters that puppets can, in fact, be wonderful dramatic actors.

It seems like in spots, for Taking the Stone, the little tiny bit of info you get about Chi comes out like pulling teeth. I think a lot of viewers are also prone to feeling like John does. "Bonk her on the head, take her back to the ship, and talk some sense into the crazy girl!" I recognize Taking the Stone as vital for character development of Chi when it aired, but not as much fun to watch now. I do like the shrooms, and John and Aeryn's banter about his crazy behavior, and the bits about Rygel, but there's not a ton of action or quotable quotes in this one. About the only line I can usually remember from it is "Yeah, I'm old! And you can be old, too!"

A lot of viewers are also put off by the general "weirdness" of the ep. One of my coworkers was, a bit, I think. I like the "weirdness" well enough, but I am a bit put off by the thicker-than-usual accents on that one, I think. I find a lot of the dialogue hard to decipher. And without looking it up, there aren't a lot of clues to the colloquialisms the cave-dwellers use, like "nixar". I don't dislike the episode, it's just not ever going to be among my favorites and make me say "Ooh! Ooh! That one's next on our watching schedule! We gotta watch this one at lunch today!"

Stacie

[CrystalMoon]

It reminded me way too much of that ST:TOS ep where Kirk and co. land on that planet full of teenagers that all died when they reached a certain age. Sound familiar? The odd slang and the thick accents made them almost impossible to understand, as well.

I liked the J&A interaction, the A&C and the J&C interaction. Liked how Chiana jumped at the end and how John was happy for her. But the aliens were a huge turnoff for me.

[NebariNookiee]

Originally posted by fandom
Crichton asking Aeryn if he had been acting crazy lately.

I really didn't like this episode, the one thing I like about it is seeing Aeryn becoming 'insightful', and maybe that the natives don't listen to them in the end.

I don't see this as foreshadowing events -- it’s more like Crichton is coming to terms with what has happened to him and how he has changed. He was tortured for crying out loud. John’s been run through the ringer and he’s come out scarred. He’s damaged goods. I think it’s through his mishandling of the Chiana situation that he’s come to realize just how scarred he is. It also reaffirms this through Aeryn’s understanding of the situation through her putting John in his place.

[jespere]

Hi!

I just started checking out the Farscape episode discussions for the first time. I don't know the names for a lot of the eps, and don't have the books (yet!) to look things up.

That being said, Taking The Stone was one of my favorite eps. Sometimes it's fun to watch what the actors do with a scene above and beyond the dialogue. The psychology of it all- how they play despair and hope and how they play off each other in a given scene.

Given the similarities to the original Star Trek episode, I still think it makes sense as a place for Chiana to try to run away to, as a place to fit in. She's the youngest of the crew (younger by centuries than some), and she's trying to deal with a loss without any support from the people she had depended on. Reminds me of people I know that head for a bar and try to cut any ties to adult responsibility (rent, bills, etc.)

(Plus I loved the look of those mud-haired guys!)

[zap]

I really enjoy this ep, and it is one of the eps I have used to turn other people on to Farscape! The reason I use this ont in particular to "turn people on" to farscape, is it is an altered mental state ep one of a handful that I like to think of as the "grateful dead" episodes (this one, dna mad scientist, friday again, crackers, maybe one or two I cant think of right now). These eps all share some sort of altered mental states experienced by one or all the crew of moya, yet the directors, writers and producers dont use these as vehicles in the (american) war on people who use drugs. That type thing come later, but while the trip was new, it was wonderful, and this ep is cool as all get out! I had no problem with the thick accents, nor did I have trouble with the weird slang (like nixah = young girl). My only trouble was with the preggers girl getting drunk. I know, alien species and all, but still, getting drunk while pregnat is never a good idea.

[canadadoc]

Not my favourite episode but several FS quotes come from here-

John " And try not to be too angry about the Prowler - Be Nice "

Aeryn " I'm not good at nice"

John " Just don't shoot her"

or

JOHN: I ca... Aeryn! What the hell is wrong with you? You are the pin-up girl for 'Frontal Assault'! ( shouting ) You should be dragging her back to the ship yourself!!

OR


JOHN: Lately... do I seem... a little... crazy to you

AERYN: What do you mean, "lately"?

OR


CHIANA: Hey, old man.

JOHN: Hey, little girl. ... You okay?


John also says he understands loss - other than the obvious loss of his former life and the innocence prior to his torture he may have really meant the loss of his Mother - which we find out about in S2.

Also laughed at how John could not face Chi's stubborn behaviour - when he is the most stubborn of them all ! After all he was the one who took of in his ship in a temper in JC. He was also a very difficult teen with lots of problems with authority figures especially his Dad.

I like how Chi calls John Old Man from now on. LOL

c.

[Nicola]

I just watched this episode for the first time. I posted my thoughts on the Space board, but I thought I would copy them here.

I had a really tough time with Taking the Stone. I am still not sure whether I like it or dislike it. Culturally western society is very death denying (and I am nothing if not a product of my society) and the aliens in Taking the Stone are in radical opposition to that attitude.

In fact, rather than deny death - they embrace it. The aliens not only actively court death - but when given the information on how to prolong a healthy life, they ignore it. I had more sympathy for the character of Nilaam in last week episode Vitas Mortis - and that is not saying much.

I think you have to take the two most recent episodes as a set - Vitas Mortis and Taking the Stone both were different takes on death. Is this going to be theme throughout the rest of the season? Are the writers foreshadowing something?

Basically (IMHO) Taking the Stone takes place in that netherworld between living and dying, a place where grief prevails. And the writers, rather cleverly, demonstrate that with the physical environment as well as Chiana's emotional state. I mean, think of it ---- the whole planet is a cemetery, and the action takes place underground - where as Crichton says, we bury our dead.

I really liked the relationship between Aeryn and Chiana. I haven't seen many interactions between the two of them up till now, and it was nice that this time that we see an almost sisterly relationship beginning to develop. Aeryn is annoyed with little sis for taking her property, but shows an intuitive understanding of why Chiana had to make the leap into the abyss in order to confront her own fear of death.

And Chiana confides in Aeryn, instinctively anticipating understanding and acceptance, and even getting it. Something she did not get from Crichton.

AERYN: Yes. I think that's why she likes it down here. I think she's trying to prove that she's still ali--

And Crichton, with uncharacteristic annoyance, cuts her off and denies the truth Aeryn is trying to explain.

Crichton is behaving very strangely. He really didn't think twice before he ate the mushroom. He even asks Aeryn at the end of the show, if he had been behaving strangely.

JOHN: Lately... do I seem... a little... crazy to you?
AERYN: What do you mean, "lately"?
JOHN: Well… I ate one of Molnon's mushrooms. One in four gets you dead.

The Aurora Chair had a huge impact on Crais, and I suppose it would be foolish to think that Crichton would survive that unscathed.

I had a sudden flash of understanding (OK - so it was more like a brick fell on me...:tonbricks ), I think I know why Crichton ate that mushroom. It was the same reason as Chiana had to take that jump - he also needed to prove to himself he was still alive and to confront his fears...

But Chiana was crazy from grief. John is just...crazy.

I think this episode had quite a lot to say about grief and how people work through grief in different ways, but I was completely with Chiana at the end when she said,

CHIANA: Let's get out of this dead place.

I still don't know if I like this episode or not. It was very unsettling.

[StephX]

I thought Taking the stone was an ok episode when I first saw it. Still do.

The only ep. I ever remember having a bad reaction to was Revenging Angel. The whole cartoon thing didn't go over well with me at first. Well, ok, and that was the last Farscape episode my husband would watch with me. He absolutly hated it.

[JrMissToughChick]

I had a sudden flash of understanding (OK - so it was more like a brick fell on me... ), I think I know why Crichton ate that mushroom. It was the same reason as Chiana had to take that jump - he also needed to prove to himself he was still alive and to confront his fears...

But Chiana was crazy from grief. John is just...crazy
I agree with you here;)








Originally posted by StephX
I thought Taking the stone was an ok episode when I first saw it. Still do.

The only ep. I ever remember having a bad reaction to was Revenging Angel. The whole cartoon thing didn't go over well with me at first. Well, ok, and that was the last Farscape episode my husband would watch with me. He absolutly hated it. I don't think I liked the cartoon part that much either... but this epy is one of those things that half the time I can't stand but the other half I realy like it :confused: so I don't know just depends on the day I guess

[StephX]

Originally posted by JrMissToughChick
I don't think I liked the cartoon part that much either... but this epy is one of those things that half the time I can't stand but the other half I realy like it :confused: so I don't know just depends on the day I guess

Yeah. Same here. I like that ep. 10x better now. I just watched it about a week ago and enjoyed it. Maybe I go through R.E. "time of the month" (hormones?) or something ? :rollin:

[JadedLegend3]

Originally posted by Madre Farbot
Maybe I'm just wierd, but I really enjoyed this episode - it brought back a lot of memories. :rollin:

You know something JrMissToughChick there was something you said that made a lot of sense; Something about John Crichton's first crazy act. I think these crazy acts have influenced other eps, especially A Clockwork Nebari?

Anyway, despite what others might say I found this to be a powerful ep regarding Chiana's being. Remember, she was trying to get someone to share her desperate feelings when she knew that she only or her own kind were able to understand this sudden emptiness about losing her brother. Somehow she had to come to terms with who she was, and the only people who were there for her were these strange almost Nebari looking wierdos.

Ok, admittedly John and Aeryn did try to make amends, but by that time Chiana was already commited to her feelings - she had to take the stone.

Here, here! Good description! My thoughts exactly. While I don't watch this ep over and over, I do like it a lot. I always feel the need to defend it and Chiana, as she seems to be one of the least like characters around this place.

[Chi27]

Originally posted by JadedLegend3
Here, here! Good description! My thoughts exactly. While I don't watch this ep over and over, I do like it a lot. I always feel the need to defend it and Chiana, as she seems to be one of the least like characters around this place.

Why is Chiana the least liked? I saw this episode back when it first aired and liked it. However, I haven't seen it since then, as well as the fact that I was a casual viewer at the time. I'll have to make a special effort to watch this one again.

[JrMissToughChick]

The only thing that buged me (when I first saw it that is) was John had Black nail polish on in the tag scene... I have figured scence then that Ben probaly desided to wear it Just because Gigi was. (funny because I kinda always thought it was probaly Ben's idea)

[Nicola]

Actually having had time to consider this, the aliens in "Taking the Stone" aren't embracing death .... they are celebrating life.

They 'take the stone' when a new 'narl' emerges and they feel that a new life is worth a celebration.

MOLNON: Way back... the ancients dug the Royal Tombs... but the surface is full! And the Royal's leave. Now we're alone... but we live!

I am reminded of extreme sports when I am watching this episode. Individuals pushing their bodies to the limits, risking their lives for the rush of adrenaline. The reminder that they are alive.

So (duh :wingnut: ) Chiana doesn't take the stone because she wants to die - she takes it because she wants to reaffirm that she is alive.

Sometimes it takes me a while to figure out what is going on....

[JrMissToughChick]

Originally posted by Nicola
So (duh :wingnut: ) Chiana doesn't take the stone because she wants to die - she takes it because she wants to reaffirm that she is alive.

Sometimes it takes me a while to figure out what is going on.... Well that's how I saw it but you know how people are.

[zen98034]

The one thing that bugs me about this episode is where are they getting all their food and drink? Doesn't seem as though any of them do any work, those intersteller Dominoes deliveries must really add up.

As far as the story goes though I liked the episode.

Mitch

[Blaise]

Look at me, in the Season 2 board!! :P Treading carefully of course, because I don't want to be spoiled. This is the latest episode I've seen and I really liked it. I liked seeing Chiana as the teenager and J/A as the parents. John does seem to be acting a little crazy...I'm thinking it's shock from the Aurora Chair. He hasn't really had a lot of time to deal with what happened to him. Anyway, I can't wait to watch more. :)

[Dangermousie]

I really like the episode. I like the surreal look of it, I like the Chiana-John interactions, I love the twist (the people don't want help, they are happy the way they are), John's craziness...Good ep.

[Lost Like Me]

Look at me, in the Season 2 board!! :P Treading carefully of course, because I don't want to be spoiled. This is the latest episode I've seen and I really liked it. I liked seeing Chiana as the teenager and J/A as the parents. John does seem to be acting a little crazy...I'm thinking it's shock from the Aurora Chair. He hasn't really had a lot of time to deal with what happened to him. Anyway, I can't wait to watch more. :)
I right with you Blaise. I'm avoiding most threads because I don't wanna get too spoiled. I had my S1 marathon last weekend, and just got my S2 DVD's in the mail yesterday. I already know a lot of the things that will happen, but I'm trying desperately not to know exactly when they happen.

I just watched Taking the Stone this morning before work. I liked it, but I really like Chiana. She's so out there, but yet vulnerable. She's not used to trusting people, and it's nice to see her relationship with the others develop, especially with John. I really like their scenes together.

For some reason, the scene where John and Chiana are talking and he starts crying, that seemed out of place to me. If it was at the end when she was about to jump I could see him crying, but it was strange for me, and I'm a big cry baby. Well, he said he was acting crazy. :)

It's nice to be able to discuss episodes. I'm hesitant to do it because I'm sure most of you have had zillions of discussions about this stuff, but what the heck. It's new for me, and I'm excited so frell it!

ETA: I rewatched parts of it before moving on to Crackers, and realized the crying was probably just him tearing up from the effects of the magic mushrooms. When I watched earlier, I missed the scene when he was tearing up talking to Aeryn right after waking up.

[kazbaby]

For some reason, the scene where John and Chiana are talking and he starts crying, that seemed out of place to me. If it was at the end when she was about to jump I could see him crying, but it was strange for me, and I'm a big cry baby. Well, he said he was acting crazy.

Since Lost Like Me and Blaise are treading lightly through season 2. All I'm going to say really about the cryinig bit is that his emotions are out of whack. Either one extreme or the other than what he's used to seeing from himself. All because of the Aurora chair. But because he does see it in himself a little bit here, that's why the question to Aeryn at the end about being seeming to be crazy.

And JmTC, John didn't have black polish on his nails, I just looked at caps for it, and it showed clear nails. LOL

[Mr.Blue]

I see it every time i see the hole series from begining to end but never as a "gotta get my fix,any ep will do episode"
The bigining is ok the hole planet is cool but i think that its an overall feeling that is missing...the Farscape feeling. Or maby im twisting my view based on the first inpression, some things in life needs some warming up too.

Next fix will be TTS...and maby il see the light.(Or take the stone as it where) :faint: :groove: :faint:

[Ritual]

I disliked Taking the Stone because it didn't focus on Chiana, it instead gave about three or four minuets of her onscreen while it focused on Crichton, which an episode about a supporting character shouldn't do. The Choice works well because we get to see Aeryn's POV, and in TtS, we don't get anything about Chiana, her feelings or her sorrow. We get brief glimpses while the story is hijacketed by a silly Plot B story involving ghosts and a main story that focuses on radiation posioning that Nebari can't suffer from while briefly skimming through Chiana's loss over the apparent death of her brother.

[Cattivo]

I think Rit hit it on the head here. Besides bad "A" & "B" stories and not being able to understand what the natives are saying at first, this episode centered around the characters of John & Aeryn instead of focusing on Chiana and her grief. You never see anything like that in Aeryn or D'Argo eps. John might be highly involved because he's the main character, yes, but D'Argo and Aeryn would still get plenty of screentime time like in The Way We Weren't, Mental as Anything, Vita Mortis, and They've Got a Secret.

Dani Moure sums Taking the Stone pretty well in his review: http://www.farscapeworld.com/episodes/review/10204.php

[jerseygirl]

This was the first Farscape episode I ever saw, so for that reason I have a special fondness for it. No, it's not a great ep but there's a lot I like about it. Firstly, it adds depth and dimension to Chiana's character. Also (as was already mentioned) it shows us tantalizing hints of what lies beneath Aeryn's surface. There's also some nice dynamics between Aeryn and John. And I love the whole existential aspect of it.

When I first saw it, the way Rygel was used really bothered me. I remember thinking, "oh no, is he the obigatory comic relief in this show?" As I gradually learned, that was not so. But it really bothered me at the time. Also, it seems the writers didn't give much thought to the whole culture of the kids living on the planet. By rights they should have all died out by then for any number of reasons. So that was a little weak.

But overall, I liked the strangeness of it. Chiana didn't have many chances to be the active agent driving the story. In fact, right now I can't think of any other one. So that was kind of cool.

[Mr.Blue]

Just saw taking the stone again...hmmm. I think it starts real swell.
The characters sre themsevs :rolleyes: (who else wood they be)
What annoys me are the doped out morons inhabiting the planet.
This is a personal bug and not a flaw of the show as i just dont like doped out morons at all. The curse with Rygel is cool i think and shows that Farscape is fantasy in a Sci-fi universe not just Sci-fi.
All in all its not that bad just not my taste.

[blue]

I am very fond of this episode- always have been. Starts with Chiana in emotional pain, and we have never seen her like that before. It adds depth to her character, and some back story about her life. We learn she was always connected to a brother and so not really so alone in her wild lonely adventures, and suddenly she IS alone for the first time. So she turns to her new companions, and they don't help her--she is STILL alone. I found it very natural that she would then turn to the kids on the planet, who accepted her into their group, and accepted her wildness as a virtue--with them, she is no longer alone, and no longer different--sex and drugs both make her feel good, and being accepted makes her feel good. I found it natural for her to deal with pain and loss by seeking both pleasure and danger. Of course she had to jump.

I agree with what many above have said about the reversal in John and Aeryn, John's impulsive risk taking with the mushroom that might kill him showing his imbalance--in fact, consider that in this episode, both John and Chiana take death defying risks impulsively, maybe compulsively. For Chiana it is life affirming--that she has courage without her brother, that she has the strength to go on without her brother. For John, what is it? We are left to wonder....

It is a planet of death, but inhabited only by new young life on the inside, and ghosts on the outside (as Rigel learns).

I liked the strangeness of the youth culture, and the words that you could figure out by context--which reminded me of Clockwork Orange.

Of course it had the StarTrek episode behind it--many of Farscape's ideas are homages to what has been done before, with a new twist.

I always loved the image at the end of Chiana with her hair standing up, taking the dancing jumping stance with her arms up with joy, and John following her, mirroring her movement with the same lightness.

And of course I just like the drug episodes. :)

[Natira]

I always loved the image at the end of Chiana with her hair standing up, taking the dancing jumping stance with her arms up with joy, and John following her, mirroring her movement with the same lightness.
The best scene in the whole episode.
Before I lend all my DVDs to a friend (I want to scape ;) ), I have to watch it again.

[Petrat]

The best scene in the whole episode.
Before I lend all my DVDs to a friend (I want to scape ;) ), I have to watch it again.

Yeah, that is my favourite scene in the episode as well. I just wish they hadn't freeze framed Chiana doing that same stance a few minutes earlier. It was a little cheesy. All in all a pretty good episode though. As for comments earlier in the thread about not understanding what the kids are saying, try close captioning. Although I don't officially have any hearing problems I've found that using close captioning helps tremendously, and not just for Farscape either. Turns out I was missing about 50% of the dialogue. I can't believe I still understood what was going on with all I missed.

Jen.

[Natira]

My translator microbes (alias my favourite online dictionary) have problems with "close captionings".
Could you explain that or is there another word to describe it? :whome:

[sny]

How about "subtitles"? That's a pretty fair synonym.

[Petrat]

Yes, lol sorry :)

Subtitles is a better word for closed captioning. Don't know why I didn't use it.

Jen.

[Natira]

Oh, thanks a lot for the explanation. :D

[Moya's Starburst]

I liked that bit with Rygel getting spooked lol....then the Crichton gets stonned bit....how i laughed especialy as it was Aeryn who sees him..lol

I was moved by Chianna though she went through some pretty intense stuff and...Crichton learns something so does Rygel that stealing is bad and Crichton-don't take drugs from strangers grow your own hee hee