Opinions Needed

[eta_carinae]

Ok, I need some opinions, and I know you guys are full of them, so...

I've been waiting all week to find out what my grades would end up being for my very first semester of grad school. The only one I have gotten so far is my microbiology grade, and I have a problem with it. It seems this particular school does not give out the +/- thing with grades, so even if you are 1 point from an A, you end up with a B. In my particular situation, I have an 87.28% - a B. Part of my grade included 15% for participation in the class, which I think I did a pretty darn good job on. At least as much as everybody else, if not more. I got 75/100 on that, while the average was 81.67/100. On everything else I did better than average, and I am sure if I had gotten just a few more participation points I would have that A.

Now, you may be thinking to yourself, "what's wrong with a B? It's a perfectly good grade..." and you would be right. BUT, at this school (or maybe just grad school in general) you have to maintain a 3.0 in order to stay in the program. Anything lower than a C is effectively failing, and I am a wee bit worried about my grade in chemistry. So this could really end up being important- if it doesn't balance out that chem grade I could be in trouble. Plus, it totally hurt my pride. And damnit, I think I deserve an A!

So what do you guys think I should do? Should I ask my prof about it? Should I just leave it alone? I've never challenged a grade before...

[Judith]

There's no harm in just asking for the rationale behind the grade. It COULD be an error. Or...on the chance you were doing something wrong, you can learn how you can improve your performance next semester.

[Nicola]

It can't hurt to ask. And might even help.

[eta_carinae]

Any thoughts on a good way to ask? I started to write her an email (she is leaving the country tomorrow, who knows when she will read it) and I felt like I was either being whiney or demanding. It went something like..."why did I end up with a 75/100? I felt I did better than that..."

[Judith]

Just tell her you would like clarification on a grade. Tell her you're adjusting to grad school--you've learned a lot this semester, and you'd like to know how you could improve next semester.

[UTChick]

You're right about being concerned in sounding confrontational. Asking for clarification is a good way to get around it. You can say, you weren't expecting that grade, so could the prof. explain your weak areas & how to improve it - you would be very appreciative of her efforts.

It is possible that by posing the question in that manner - she might realize that she had an error on her part or an oversight - or it might have been legitimate - but bringing it to her attention in a non-confrontational, looking for ways of improvement should give you the most chances of being able to affect a change.

[LadyCrais]

I have a feeling I'm going to sound snippy if I try to comment on this, but I'll take a shot at it. So yes, in grad school there is none of this +/- bit with grades. My personal opinion is there never should be anywhere at any point in education, but be that as it may. As for the 87, being close enough to an A, it's not, though it looks like your test/presentation/whatever else scores came out to around an 89. No doubt that's what's in your craw making you feel the participation should have bumped you to an A rather than firmly planting you in the B zone. The problem is, you would need roughly a 95 on participation to bump that 89 over into the A, assuming 90 is an A. A lot of schools have the A's beginning at 91, 93 or 94. All of this is assuming that there are no curves in place, which I gather there aren't.

Most grad programs that I've been around require the 3.0 be maintained and 1 C will put you on probation and 2 C's will remove you from the program. There is no maintaining a 3.0 with equal numbers of A's and C's. BUT, it turns out that the profs are well aware of that and that C's are very rare. In general, A's are reserved for true excellence, which you're unlikely to demonstrate until you get more experience. And the B zone is the one that is widened to accomodate the "average" grad student. Which the mere fact that you're in grad school at all means you're "above average", which is exactly what a grade of B represents.

So that's the opinion of an old fudd in the university education system, fwiw.

[VBKatLou]

Originally posted by eta_carinae
It went something like..."why did I end up with a 75/100? I felt I did better than that..."

Don't use those words. You're immediately challanging her and making it sound like she made a mistake - it will put her on the defense right away. I'd go with Judith_Shakespeare's approach.

I would also pay attention to LadyCrais's words, however, sometimes the 'human' approach can override expected logical averages. :)

edited to add: BTW - I love it when a thread actually asks for my opinion. :rollin:

[who45]

I have to agree with LadyCrais that in most grad schools A's are very hard to come by. I don't think that there is anything wrong at all in asking your prof. about the grade. I do agree also with the others,don't come out and say that it's wrong, just point out that you would like to know what you did or didn't do that made you get a B so you can improve next time.

[fermicat]

I'd ask her how you could do better at this next time and see what she says. Her answer should point to why she thought your participation grade should be what she gave you. If she responds but doesn't come up with how you can improve, then you could ask why your mark was lower than average.

[Judith]

Another good reason for asking is that it IS entirely possible that your participation grade WAS higher, and you accidentally received someone else's grade. Grading software isn't always user-friendly and profs are falliable too.

[eta_carinae]

Well, a good friend and study partner of mine recieved a C in the class.... and the average was a 75 (no curve). I don't know how many people got a C or not.....

I tried a little calculating on my own, and I would need to get at least a 93 for participation, which I doubt she would be willing to bump it up to (if indeed 75 is what she gave me). So it looks like I'm stuck with a B. I hate it that it's so close, and no one will ever know! I mean, sheesh, it could have been an 80 for all anyone knows. But maybe they won't care...

I did really well on all the tests, way over average, and above 90 on all but the final (where the average was a 59). There was an "extra credit" assignment (a homework we started but never really got around to finishing) that she said if we turned in by Thursday we could get some extra points in the homework/minilab department. I was going to do it after my last test on Tuesday (like Wednesday) but I ended up having to put one of my animals to sleep and was in no mood to do extra homework. I kinda feel like if I had done that assignment I would have gotten the A.... it would probably have given me enough homework points for it. But, that's a mute point as I didn't do it and I can't turn it in now.

I'm going to email her tonight or tomorrow, but she is now out of the country for who knows how long and I don't know when anything will happen.

I also don't know what the A/B/C thing is here.... it kinda seems like alot of people get C's, which seems odd to me if you want everyone to mainatin a B average. It seems like alot of people would have to drop out if that were the case. Who knows. If the other grades turn out ok I have nothing to worry about. But if not..... man, grad school is tough!

Thanks for the advice guys, it really has been helpful.

[grapeshot]

I'm in agreement with LadyCrais and VBKatLou. Grad school is tough, and it's meant to be that way on purpose. (Gosh, otherwise all sorts of average joes and other riff-raff could go to Grad school.)

If the only reason you got a B was because the instructor deemed your participation to be "average" (which, by the way, is actually the way even you characterized it), why, you SHOULD make it your business to find out what it would have taken to qualify for "above average" class participation.

However, there's nothing wrong with getting a B in a graduate course. Remember, you are now studying with other above-average people, and your curriculum is exponentially harder than what you studied in undergrad classes. Look at it this way, you're either passing, or you're failing, and that's all you or anybody needs to know about it.

More importantly, are you LEARNING anything? How important is the actual grade, really? It's one thing to spend your undergrad years focused on your GPA so that it'll be high enough to get you into grad school. However, once you're in grad school, what will your GPA mean five years from now? Maybe you need to adjust your focus a little??

My final thought is that it's been my observation that in grad school original thinking has more value than the ability to regurgitate what was in reading assignments or what the instructor presented in class. The latter ability is often enough to get a student a good grade in undergrad classes, but in grad school you're likely to be expected to take your various sources and synthsize them into something new. That's part of why grad school is exponentially tougher than undergrad school was, and this can sometimes be a difficult adjustment to make. (LOL, that's why you won't find me anywhere NEAR a grad school in my lifetime!!! Well, that, and prolly the fact that I couldn't get in!) I'm not suggesting anything other than that for grad school you might, indeed, have to step it up a notch.

[talyn3]

Start sucking up right now, and if that doesn't work move straight to making threats. :):):)






Please don't take my advice.

[LadyCrais]

Great advice Grapeshot. Your point about the grades is a major one, though maybe it depends on what field you're in grad school for. For me, in the sciences, they were essentially irrelevant provided they were all A's or B's. There was no degree with cum laude or any other honors available. What was important was the ability to think and perform original, contributing science. I don't actually have a clue what the liberal arts fields require. Maybe some of them are all grades in courses and research papers or something. In the sciences it's hands-on research, discovery and publication, and the courses are just to give you some solid theoretical background.