Kansas nitpicking

[mfa96]

I watched Kansas last night, and found it to be uneeven on some things. Okay...I love Aeryn singing with Kermit, and calling the girl slow, as much as the next guy, but there a few inconsistencies in this ep...

1. How can Chiana speak English- I mean Aeryn studies more than her, yet she speaks more than Aeryn when she runs into "Little John". I know she can understand him because of the translator microbes, but speaking to him?

2. Okay, so it's Halloween time...but "Little John" sees Chiana in "costume" on 2 different days and says nothing at all....

3. They're in 1986, and it's Halloween, and the shuttle hasn't exploded yet- well, it blew up in January. And okay, maybe it's a different realiy, so there's a different date to go boom, but John remembers it going boom in this reality, so Halloween should have been after, and dad should be safe (especially since another shuttle didn't go up for a few years).

Farscape is usually so good when it comes to these things... but this ep just wasn't...

[stellar]

Challenger exploded Jan 28, 1986. I don't know if they said that they were in 1986. I think that they were in Halloween 1985. Jack said that he was leaving Monday, probably for training and mission preparation (this would take several months). So I think the timeline is reasonable unless somewone explicitly said it was 1986. They just said Reagan was president so that just says 80-88.


As for Chiana speaking English. She only speaks in short one or two word sentences, which she could have picked up listening to Aeryn who had been practicing on Moya.

As for #2... well let's just say little John was doing the thinking for little John... if you get my drift.

*Edited for reasons you'll never know.*

[Selena]

Chi did not say an awful lot to young John. Most of it was "Yeah" and simple words. I don't recall her having a whole conversation with him ... he did most of the talking.

John jumped to conclusions about it being 1986. Anyone recall what the date on the newspaper was? He knew it was the mid 1980's. It wasn't till he set foot on the planet that he knew the exact date.

I have more trouble with the fact that he went back in time but was in space where he had no influence with anything on Earth and he decides to go planetside to check out time anomalies. IMO that's when he influenced the time line and not when he was hovering in orbit.

[mfa96]

I am 90% sure I heard John say it was 1986- and Halloween... of course we could assume he was wrong and it was 85 (would have been nice to say so then)...but there was something in the radio trnasmission they picked up that told John it was 86...anyone remember what that was?

[stellar]

I'll review the tape tonight to make sure, but I don't think anyone said it was 1986.

The radio transmission was a news story about Nicuragua in which President Reagan's name came up. This means that it was the 80s. John got a paper saying it was Halloween tomorrow. John saw the congradulations sign for the Challenger mission. Then he told Dargo that the Challenger explosion happened in 1986. I think that it was Halloween 1985, or even 1984 since these things are planned well in advance of the mission.

[NebariNookiee]

Originally posted by Selena
I have more trouble with the fact that he went back in time but was in space where he had no influence with anything on Earth and he decides to go planetside to check out time anomalies. IMO that's when he influenced the time line and not when he was hovering in orbit.
Did you ever think that, by not understanding the mechanics of how all the "unrealized realities" worked, that maybe by John going down to Earth to see what he messed up was what set off the change? John was told to “fix the first thing that goes wrong” – well, him coming to Earth in the wrong time was the first thing. I honestly believe that if he hadn’t gone down to investigate, everything would have been fine.

Of course, there's no way of ever knowing for certain if this little hypothesis is accurate or not, but it sure makes for interesting conversation.

Existentialism anyone???:D

[Judith]

This is really nitpicky, but the thing that bothered me the most was the "we thought Kermit's batteries were dead line"

I don't believe that Aeryn knew the word for batteries. That's just not one of the fundemental things you learn when you are just picking up a new language.

[mfa96]

This ep was full of little holes like that- guess they just bother me because, as I said, Farscape usually doesn't have them.... :shrug:

[RescueFarscape]

If I remember correctly, the only time someone said 1986 was when John mentioned that Challenger exploded in '86.
I always assumed it was Halloweem 1985 when they went back.

One thing that confuses me (and I never remember to watch for it until the end) is why Pilot and Moya were orbiting Earth in 2003. Last we saw, they were on the other side of the wormhole. Did they jump in the wormhole so they wouldn't be bothered by the PK's anymore? But the PKs could have followed them? And I thought Pilot and Moya were terrified of wormholes?

[Selena]

Originally posted by NebariNookiee
..... that maybe by John going down to Earth to see what he messed up was what set off the change? John was told to “fix the first thing that goes wrong” – well, him coming to Earth in the wrong time was the first thing. I honestly believe that if he hadn’t gone down to investigate, everything would have been fine.

Existentialism anyone???:D

That's my argument precisely! Although there are those who disagree.

I also propose that because John messed with the time line (and then "fixed" it) is the reason why he ended up in the UTs on Farscape 1.
Temporal paradoxes will drive :goof: one quite crazy :loco:
John set in motion, events in the past, that in the future caused him to be sucked into a wormhole so that he would go back in time to correct the events that he'd set in motion from the future, in his past .... Arrggghhhh!

[JrMissToughChick]

Hey if we are talking about Languge problems I had more with Terra Firma I loved Kansas I realy forgot how funny it was. What I want to know is how they got power to that house?

~JrMTC~

[NebariNookiee]

D'Argo wired it up in the basement. That's the best answer I can give. He said something to the extent of "lights come on or blow up whole city" right before flipping the switch. I had a good chuckle from that.

[JrMissToughChick]

yeah NN I knew that but I have a better x they wierd it to LOLA hmm good don't you think

~JrMTC~

[NebariNookiee]

I like that. The question begs to be asked that how in the frell did D'Argo know how to hook up the lights when he doesn't understand the tech. Oh course I'm not going to ask it -- the Powers That Be have always made it a point that we (I mean the viewers) are pretty smart and we can fill in the blanks fairly well. I guess that since it’s never mentioned we can come up with our own explanations.

[Judith]

Originally posted by NebariNookiee
I like that. The question begs to be asked that how in the frell did D'Argo know how to hook up the lights when he doesn't understand the tech. Oh course I'm not going to ask it -- the Powers That Be have always made it a point that we (I mean the viewers) are pretty smart and we can fill in the blanks fairly well. I guess that since it’s never mentioned we can come up with our own explanations.

I can buy this, and other technical things such as...how they know how to work a car for example...cause our technology is supposed to be really primitive.

[frellyou]

My biggest gripe with this episode is actually the fact that he was in 1986 then had to travel thru a wormhole to reach Moya in 2003. That made no sense to me. Maybe someone can explain it.

[JrMissToughChick]

Originally posted by Judith_Shakespeare
I can buy this, and other technical things such as...how they know how to work a car for example...cause our technology is supposed to be really primitive. They didn't that impressed me The ENT ignored that and Archer could use a car Dargo had a commedicly funny scene showing he had no clue "Machine GO"

~JrMTC~

Added a y to correct stupid mistake.

[Judith]

Originally posted by JrMissToughChick
The didn't that impressed me The ENT ignored that and Archer could use a car Dargo had a commedicly funny scene showing he had no clue "Machine GO"

~JrMTC~

What means ENT?

[JrMissToughChick]

Obviously nothing important... New Startrek Ripeoff... I mean spin off Enterprise. they went to the year 2004 to stop someting and Archer the Cpt. knew how to drive.

~JrMTC~

[Scaper989]

What bugged me is that Chiana busted little Johny's cherie,
not Karen Shaw. So when he first met Chi on Moya, he should
have shown some reaction. A guy doesn't forget his first.

[CrystalMoon]

A guy doesn't forget his first.

Unless his first was a different Karen Shaw in our John's memories ... until he went back in time. Now, Karen Shaw is Chiana, and our John might have two memories rattling around in his head. Or his original memory changed to Chiana at the moment the timeline changed.

Or perhaps this new memory of Chiana is very fuzzy. Remember, they had knocked out and almost killed young John right after it happened. His memory, and hence older John's memory, might be all screwed up.

[grapeshot]

yeah, remember granny blew her "special" powder on him to make him forget, and it was Chiana who said "except for Karen Shaw and the 4-Wheel drive". I bet if the present day Crichton were asked, he would have very little SPECIFIC memories about losing his virginity.

These sorts of time-travel stories always lead to all sorts of conundrums, which make for LOOOONG discussions, and much head-spinning.

One of my favorite Hitchhiker's Guide To The Universe websites has a pretty thorough explanation of all the ways timetravel may be possible, AND it's in basic layman's language!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A398955

[JrMissToughChick]

Is Grayza not a PK or was Braca Just showing his contempt for her?

When Scorpy asked how many were aboard He said "30 PeaceKeepers and Grayza" so what is she? Me thinks She's Nebari Her make up reminded me of Chi's in Nerve what do you think? I Know Off topic a bit.

~JrMTC~

[GARNET]

I think Braca does not like her. She uses him and mental plays game with him. So I can see him telling Scorpius she there while show his total dislike for her.

[JPinPA]

Originally posted by stellar
[B]Challenger exploded Jan 28, 1986. I don't know if they said that they were in 1986. I think that they were in Halloween 1985. Jack said that he was leaving Monday, probably for training and mission preparation (this would take several months). So I think the timeline is reasonable unless somewone explicitly said it was 1986. They just said Reagan was president so that just says 80-88.

I just pulled this from the Journey Logs at SciFi:

"Bad news: We'd pulled a Star Trek IV by accident. The wormhole had dumped us above Earth in 1986"

[NebariNookiee]

But the story takes place on Halloween -- so it would have to be the Halloween right before the Challenger explosion.

Skiffy's never been too specific on details... :smokin:

[JrMissToughChick]

Originally posted by NebariNookiee
I think Braca does not like her. She uses him and mental plays game with him. So I can see him telling Scorpius she there while show his total dislike for her
Yeah when I saw that scene I was like "burn" I think it made me crack up the most... I don't like her either.

~JrMTC~

[JrMissToughChick]

Who here is gald John told his mom she was a peacemaker instead of a peacekeeper? I was, I think by then he no longer concedered that a good thing ;)

~JrMTC~

[joedoebell]

Originally posted by JrMissToughChick
Hey if we are talking about Languge problems I had more with Terra Firma I loved Kansas I realy forgot how funny it was. What I want to know is how they got power to that house?

~JrMTC~

Actually, I was going to say something similar. Kansas really isn't so bad. They made it a point to have only the characters who coud potentially speak English.. speak English. Except Grandma... but I think it's been mentioned several times around here that she's a rather odd bird and we don't know her story. Now, whether or not Aeryn could say "batteries" is debatable, but in "A Constellation of Doubt", Aeryn, says "sacrosanct"! I can't see that as debatable at all. There's just no reason she ought to know that word.

In fact, "A Constellation of Doubt" is almost horrible in comparison to Kansas. Aeryn knows enough English to be interviewed, D'arga, Chiana, Grandma, and Sparky all makes lengthy comments to the camera. I mean.... Rygel? Why would he even -care- to learn English? In addition, this was being taped by Crichton's nephew (I believe?), you'd think he'd have been given the translator microbes as would all of John's family to make them comfortable with these visitors. There's little reason why any of them should have been speaking in full English sentences to the camera.

OnT: Anyway, back to the immediate subject. I'd have to agree with those who say we have to assume it's '85 or earlier. If it isn't specifically said otherwise, you have to put the events together and come up with the date. Now, someone thinks the date is said specifically? It's been awhile since I watched the episodes so I'm afraid I don't remember. :S If anyone can find it, please post it. Thanks.

[JrMissToughChick]

whether or not Aeryn could say "batteries" is debatable John has said Batteries on several ocasions if there is so Sabasaen word for it She would have just been repeating John's english form.

~JrMTC~

[joedoebell]

Yeah, it's very possible. It could probably still be seen as debatable, with it's smiggen of ambiguity. On the other hand, John never says "sacrosanct" as far as I remember. Nor do I see any reason he would. :)

[JrMissToughChick]

you are correct on that one, but I still don't remember Aeryn saying it though.

~JrMTC~

[Sma]

frell ..i can`t believe this hasn`t been mentioned yet. or maybe i haven`t been looking properly. anywayz...what really REALLY bothered me about this eppy was the fact that when chiana has that dress on..the skin on her feet is white...while her head and neck are grey...and thinking back to i think it was look at the princess part 1...or something like that..when john comes in to the room on moya and "interrupts" her and d`argo...her back is grey..what`s up with that? ..maybe they forgot to colour her feet when they were filming..or maybe she had some skin paint on or something? ..but it sounds very unlikely.. what do you guys think??

[JrMissToughChick]

frell ..i can`t believe this hasn`t been mentioned yet. or maybe i haven`t been looking properly. anywayz...what really REALLY bothered me about this eppy was the fact that when chiana has that dress on..the skin on her feet is white...while her head and neck are grey...and thinking back to i think it was look at the princess part 1...or something like that..when john comes in to the room on moya and "interrupts" her and d`argo...her back is grey..what`s up with that? ..maybe they forgot to colour her feet when they were filming..or maybe she had some skin paint on or something? ..but it sounds very unlikely.. what do you guys think??
I think they were stalkings

[aidor]

JrMissToughChick - i have to agree there!

now the thing is, translator microbes.

as i see it the way they work is you hear someone speaking in their own language but you understand it, surely all of moyas crew should be able to say a fair bit over the years together in each others language. i mean if you heard french for example and every word you heard, you understood in english over the years you would also be able to say quite a lot.

yes. no. maybe? or am i confusing everyone?

also to them all john is primitive, they are much more evolved, brain capacity, super cool learning abilities, i mean look at sikosku!! practically learnt english after 1 episode!!!!!!!!

[Selena]

I believe that the patch of bare skin is due to them having to leave some of her skin exposed so that she didn't go into kidney failure.

Our skin is an organ and we cannot cover all of it with paint without serious health consequences.

[Aidyn]

I like the understanding but hearing explanation for language. they heard english, and they understood. ill sleep better now. :D

[tacklingmonkey]

Just wondering what episode does John tell D'argo that he lost his virginity to Karen Shaw in the back of his pickup?

[Nicola]

Just wondering what episode does John tell D'argo that he lost his virginity to Karen Shaw in the back of his pickup?

Losing Time. But that isn't the first time that Karen Shaws name is brought up in the series. Karen Shaw was also referenced in That Old Black Magic in Season One.

And then, of course, Kansas. :D