Howard's Scream

[eta_carinae]

Can somebody please explain to me what the big deal is with Howard Dean's speech after the Iowa Caucus? I don't understand what all the commotion is about. I'm very curious.

[grinner]

The guy acted like a lunatic. He cracked.

[eta_carinae]

I watched the part of the speech where he shouted out all of the states. He just seemed excited to me. Was there more to it? Or am I totally missing something here....

[samati75]

Oh, what happened?! I haven't heard anything about this...

[grinner]

There is a 'Standard' that politicians are supposed to follow. Dean really doesn't follow them... and many in the Liberal Side of the Media don't particularly care for Dean. So they are actively looking for ways to discredit him.

[grinner]

DISASTER FOR DEAN IN IOWA

By DEBORAH ORIN, VINCENT MORRIS and BRIAN BLOMQUIST
DICK GEPHARDT
Quits the prez race.

Email Archives
Print Reprint

January 20, 2004 -- In an Iowa meltdown, Howard Dean got socked with a disastrous third-place finish last night, as John Kerry pulled off a stunning political comeback to win the first-in-the-nation Democratic contest for president.

Dean's collapse, combined with the combined surge of Sen. Kerry (Mass.) and Sen. John Edwards (N.C.), who finished second, threw the race wide open.

It also raised fresh questions about Dean's temperament when he launched into a screaming, clenched-teeth rant before his supporters after the vote count.

Anything less than a win in Iowa was a clear disappointment for longtime front-runner Dean, but the distant third-place finish was a huge blow.

With 98 percent of the vote counted in last night, Kerry led with 38 percent, Edwards was in second place with 32 percent, Dean had only 18 percent, and Richard Gephardt had 11 percent.

Rolling up his shirt sleeves and shrieking so loud that his voice cracked, a raging Dean rallied his supporters with forced optimism and a pugilistic tone that stood in contrast to the formal upbeat speeches by his opponents.

"I'll see you around the corner, around the block," Dean said, sounding like a bully taunting Kerry and Edwards, whom he'll face in the New Hampshire primary Tuesday.

"He's crazy," said Republican pollster Frank Luntz after watching Dean's bizarre performance. "This is everything that voters don't want to hear from him. He's just lost the Democratic nomination for president. He's too hot."

Dean told his supporters, "We will not give up. We will not quit, now or ever. We have just begun to fight. We have just begun to fight."

The former Vermont governor remains the best-funded Democratic candidate in the race and has a large national organization. A poll yesterday showed him with an 8-point lead over retired general Wesley Clark in New Hampshire.

Kerry called himself "the comeback Kerry" and was ecstatic when he appeared before his supporters to claim a stunning victory.

"I told you I was learning along the way," Kerry told his crowd.

Edwards, whose candidacy was considered nearly dead a few weeks ago, came in a solid second, giving him strong momentum going into New Hampshire and then South Carolina, on Feb. 3, where he'll run as one of only two Southerners. (Clark is from Arkansas.)

Gephardt, whose union-backed effort was banking on a win in Iowa, came in fourth place and he promptly decided to drop out of the race, setting off a scramble among the other candidates to pick up his supporters.

A survey of caucus voters showed the breadth of Kerry's strength - he beat Dean even among anti-war voters, who were considered the former Vermont governor's political base.

Edwards' surprise strong showing gave his campaign a jolt of optimism.

"I'm having so much fun. I can't begin to tell you," Edwards said last night. "We were sort of the little engine that could."

Edwards was helped by Ohio's Dennis Kucinich, a minor candidate with single-digit support who told his supporters to back Edwards.

Voter turnout was huge - double what it was four years ago - and 46 percent told pollsters they were going into the caucuses for the first time.

Those newcomers were split evenly between Kerry and Dean - a surprise for Dean, who was counting on young, new voters to give him a win.

Kerry, a four-term senator who has made a strong effort to reach out to women, did well among voters who were looking for a candidate with the "right experience," while for Dean, the caucus was a failed first test of his campaign's ballyhooed Internet-driven campaign.

Voters seemed attracted to Edwards' charisma and his optimistic, positive campaign. He has made a name for himself by refusing to attack his opponents, and observers have seen a big improvement in his skills on the stump. But it was Dean who came into Iowa as the clear front-runner - he's campaigned in the state for nearly two years - but by the time last night's vote at 1,993 neighborhood caucuses was over, he was just another middle-of-the-pack wannabe.

His support began to collapse when he said capturing Saddam Hussein didn't make America any safer, and flubbed by saying he wouldn't "prejudge" Osama bin Laden's guilt in the 9/11 attacks.

Dean also wasn't helped by a confrontation at a recent debate with the Rev. Al Sharpton over his lack of minority Cabinet members when he was Vermont governor.

In the final days before the Iowa vote, the momentum shifted to Kerry, a Vietnam vet who appeared this week with a Green Beret whose life he saved, and Edwards, whose campaign events had an electric feel to them.

Last night also was a big blow to the political influence of labor unions. Dean and Gephardt had the backing of government unions and labor unions, respectively.

Dean, who has already faced questions about his appeal to black voters, wrapped up his two-year Iowa campaign with a visit to a Martin Luther King memorial that turned ugly when a mob of TV cameras swarmed the governor as he got off his campaign bus.

In recent days, he has increasingly attacked the media in a sign of frustration.

At the King event, Dean and his aides wandered around outside the building as reporters followed shouting questions - a cameraman fell backward and Dean swiped angrily at a microphone boom close to his face, snapping: "You guys are worse than New York [media] and that's saying a lot."

[samati75]

Howard Dean's Campaign Scream -- Is It Fatal? (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=4188170)

Dean's yell came at the end of a speech to his supporters after he placed a disappointing third in the Iowa caucuses, the first binding vote of the 2004 campaign.

"Not only are we going to New Hampshire ..., we're going to South Carolina and Oklahoma and Arizona and North Dakota and New Mexico, and we're going to California and Texas and New York," he said. "And we're going to South Dakota and Oregon and Washington and Michigan. And then we're going to Washington, D.C. To take back the White House. Yeaeeeaaaaah!"

[grinner]

Dean Loses It
Yes, the caucus — and his self-control, too.

Finishing third in a contest that just a few weeks earlier he had been expected to win handily is surely a setback for the campaign of Howard Dean. But in the long run, Dean's Iowa concession speech, in which he appeared to lose control of himself and began screaming at supporters — all in front of dozens of television cameras — may be even more damaging.

Dean's speech, delivered at his headquarters in Des Moines, stunned even some observers used to his displays of anger on the campaign trail. And in the days after the caucuses it is sure to spark discussion of Dean's emotional intensity and whether such intensity should be a disqualifying characteristic for a potential president.

The speech didn't start badly. Although Dean appeared oddly exuberant after what was an extraordinarily disappointing finish, that might easily be attributed to a politician's desire to put a publicly positive face on bad news. "You know something?" Dean asked his fans. "If you had told us one year ago that we were going to come in third in Iowa, we would have given anything for that."

That was a perfectly reasonable gloss for a candidate to put on unfavorable election results. But Dean quickly took on a red-faced, shouting, teeth-baring, air-punching demeanor unlike any of his performances during the campaign.

"Not only are we going to New Hampshire," he said, his voice rising. "We're going to South Carolina and Arizona and North Dakota and New Mexico, and we're going to California and Texas and New York. And we're going to South Dakota and Oregon and Washington and Michigan. And then we're going to Washington, D.C. to take back the White House."

Then he let out a strange, extended, yelp that seemed to come from deep within him: "YAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!"

Dean resumed his roll of states. "We will not give up! We will not give up in New Hampshire! We will not give up in South Carolina! We will not give up in Arizona or New Mexico, Oklahoma, North Dakota, Delaware, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan! We will not quit now or ever! We'll earn our country back for ordinary Americans!"

As the crowd began to applaud, Dean recited still more states. "And we're going to win in Massachusetts! And North Carolina! And Missouri! And Arkansas! And Connecticut! And New York! And Ohio!" — the home states of Dean's rivals for the Democratic nomination.

At times in his speech, Dean's demeanor seemed that of a man who was not aware of how he looked to outside observers. In the last days of the Iowa contest he had undergone the extreme stress of a candidate losing control of a campaign he had once dominated. His reaction to the loss in Iowa brought to mind statements Dean made on January 8, in an interview with People magazine, in which Dean discussed the emotional difficulties he has sometimes had dealing with stressful situations.

In the interview, Dean discussed how, as a medical student, he encountered difficulties when he had to treat a nine year-old victim of a drive-by shooting. Dean denied suggestions that he froze up, but said, "I discovered that my really intense emotional empathy just made it hard for me to do the things that had to be done."

People reporter J. D. Heyman then asked about later anxiety attacks Dean had suffered. "What were those like?"

"It was not a big deal," Dean responded. "I was just anxious and I didn't know why."

"So it was a paralyzing — "

"No, not a bit," Dean answered. "I didn't miss a day of work. I didn't worry about what was going to happen. I just wasn't sure what was going on and then I traced it to my brother [who had disappeared in Laos]."

"Through counseling?" Heyman asked.

"Yeah," Dean said.

"Was it just talking it through or were you ever medicated?"

"No. It was just anxiety."

"Well, today, you say the word 'anxiety' and there are eight or nine different anti-anxiety drugs — " Heyman said.

Dean explained that he is "not a big fan of most anti-anxiety drugs." He said he occasionally takes "stuff for sleep," but "anti-anxiety drugs and sleep drugs were essentially the same thing when I was practicing. And my experience was whenever I took a sleeping pill, there would be rebound insomnia and so I didn't like to take them."

Heyman asked, "And since then, it was as if you went in, you took care of the problem and that has never been a problem since?:

"No," said Dean. "That was in the early eighties."

"It sounds as if you had a little bit of an anxiety attack when you got the word that you were now governor," Heyman said.

"I did," Dean answered. " I hyperventilated and I started hyperventilating and I thought, 'You better stop that or you won't be much good to anybody.'"

"Has that happened since, or before?"

"No."

"Why was that such a — "

"To suddenly get told that you have responsibility for 600,000 people — it provokes a little anxiety."

"But now you're asking for responsibility for 250 million and then, the global reach of the U.S. presidency. That doesn't provoke a little anxiety?"

"No," Dean answered. "I mean I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't — First of all, I think everybody has a little anxiety when they approach a job like that." Dean then explained that as a doctor and as governor, he had made many hard decisions, sometimes involving life and death.

Throughout his campaign, Dean has been an emotionally volatile candidate. He has made anger a feature of his campaign, with the exception of a few days toward the end of the Iowa contest when he tried to adopt a more statesmanlike approach (a strategy he soon abandoned). In the face of questions about his tone, Dean denied that he was angry and claimed that his campaign was in fact about hope. But now, following his nearly over-the-top performance in his concession speech, the questions will return.

[grinner]

audio clip of scream (http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/data/2004/01/20/20040120_060204_dean.mp3)

[eta_carinae]

So it looks like there is more to this than just the "passionate" list of states... he seemed to be getting pretty impatient with that reporter (I can kinda see why) but those definelty aren't qualities you want to see in a man who wants to be president. I wonder how much is really unique to Dean (losing the temper) and how much has been pumped up by the media?

[grinner]

the guy has been like that for years. There is tape of him while he was a Govenor losing it at a news conference.

[bouyantman]

that boy is just plain.........:loco:

[vikingscaper]

I thought that the scream was funny! One of the radio stations from the Twin Cities added his scream into a song and it was hilarious! I can't remember the name of the song but it dealt with crazy people.

[trubador]

He'd even be kicked out of FMD's "You Ain't Right" Club for reeeeeeeally being not quite right. :rollin:

[vikingscaper]

:rollin:

[AnnieBW]

I kept expecting to hear him say, "NEVER GIVE UP! NEVER SURRENDER!" :D I think he just got caught up in the moment. However, it does lead to some serious questions about his temperment, and whether people want his finger on the button. Don't get me wrong - I'm a Deaniac. But I'm becoming less of one as time wears on, and supporting Kerry more and more. Besides, Kerry's wife is a trustee of my college. I might even travel back to Pittsburgh if she gives a speech there. :D

- Annie

[Antrobus]

But I'm becoming less of one as time wears on, and supporting Kerry more and more.

I've wanted to support Kerry all along, but his campaign took a stumble back in the fall and I wondered whether he would be viable. But, he changed campaign managers and he's looking very viable to me now. So.....think I'm jumping aboard that band wagon!:D

So Annie, come along!!

[Third EYe]

Dean is the reason people use drugs...

[trubador]

No... drugs are the reason some people will vote for Dean.

[Third EYe]

Am I glad I'm sober.

[ranger1]

Al Sharpton for me, all tha way! (NOT!) :lol:

[Frellster]

Man, I saw the clip and he just looked excited to me. I like Howard Dean. Seems like a nice guy to me. I'm still OK with him as a potential president.

[DRD2001]

All I know is that I am NOT motivated to vote for Edwards. With thousands of people getting laid off in our county, natural disasters and resourced strained to the max, Eddie Boy is no where to be found. He needs to come home and take care of business. He has also declined to vote on many important issues, and I assume it is because he doesn't want to alienate one political side or the other. While it may be politically saavy, I think it shows a defect in character.

[janey_13]

Originally posted by eta_carinae
I watched the part of the speech where he shouted out all of the states. He just seemed excited to me.

I agree.

[AgentSun]

frellster: Man, I saw the clip and he just looked excited to me. I like Howard Dean. Seems like a nice guy to me. I'm still OK with him as a potential president.



unfortunately, i think that a lot of people vote under the concept that the nice guy is a good guy. i don't like dean and i'm going to vote bush, regardless of dean's personality. i like bush and i'm sticking by him. but that's not the point here.

i'm not saying that you are doing this, frellster, but the people would rather watch tv and get their facts than go to a website or read the newspaper and get their facts. tv is a more stimulating way of presenting a bias. it is easier to persuade people to do something if you use flashy graphics. on a newspaper all you have is descriptive words. and this isnt all people, but it is most. and because of that, they think it's okay to vote for "he seems like a nice guy" because all they've seen of him is from tv, where he's got a colgate smile and a snappy tie on.

you know how people sometimes voted a president based on the color of their tie? same thing here.

bottom line, i'd rather vote for the guy i thought could do the best job and whose values agree with the values i have. bush is a nice guy, i bet, but thats not why i'm going to vote for him.

[Antrobus]

i don't like dean and i'm going to vote bush, regardless of dean's personality.

Dean IS NOT the democratic candidate at this time. So, you're being a bit premature in placing Bush vs. Dean. But it sounds like your mind is already made up anyway and that you favor Bush.

As for Dean's "scream", to me it sounded like the way one gets a pep rally going. Was it over the top? In my opinion it was, but I still don't mind Dean as a candidate - although I'm leaning towards Kerry.

There was a news report last night that indicated that more people are going to the interent than ever before to learn about the candidates in the Dem race. There they're able to read where the candidates stand on the issues and one can also read texts of their speeches.

It's heartening to know that some people ARE spending the time to examine their options and make a selection based on something concrete rather than televised soundbites.

For most Dems, its not as much about the person as it is about who they feel can get Bush out of office. Because as much as many of you like and support Bush, national polls indicate that as many strongly dislike him.

I think this upcoming presidential race is going to be very devisive in the country. There are some pretty strong passions running for and against Bush

bush is a nice guy

That's debatable. As much as people point out Dean's perceived problem with anger, they should also be taking a look (IMO) at Bushs' arrogance!

[fermicat]

From what I've seen, the only people who have been highly critical of "the scream" have been conservatives. These people wouldn't vote for him under any circumstance, so I don't think he'll be hurt much by it. I don't think it was a big deal (disclaimer: my views are mostly liberal). I don't mind the candidates showing that they are humans, and not political robots.

[Judith]

Originally posted by eta_carinae
Can somebody please explain to me what the big deal is with Howard Dean's speech after the Iowa Caucus? I don't understand what all the commotion is about. I'm very curious.

He sounded like Hitler, but speaking English. He scared me.

And I'm a democrat, by the way.

[eta_carinae]

Hmmmm.... yeah, I guess the style could be somewhat similar to Hitler's speeches..... but I didn't get the same shivers I get when I watch Hitler. Maybe it's because looking back at Hitler, I know he was a very bad man, but I get chills just looking at him.

[Darth Buddha]

I didn't like Dean on the basis of issues. I agree with Clark the most, Edwards next, and then Gephart.

But piling on for a war whoop is just ridiculous. Like his temperment is more worrisome than, say, a womanizer or a cokeheaded drunk driver.

[Third EYe]

I think Dean is a time bomb who's fuse has stopped premature and now everyone is sitting on pins and needles waiting for the "BANG!". I didn't hear his "scream" by the way, and have purposefully avoided it.

Clark can't decide what he beleives, supports or is even aware of. He contradicts himself continually. He's a what's known as a rattle snake.

Gephart is a liar, one of the worst ones I've ever seen.

Edwards is relatively unknown to me.

Sharpton is a racist poverty pimp who's never worked a day in his life.

I liked Brown more than the previous gents. She seems to be far more earnest in her concerns and endeavors. I don't agree with most of her issues, but I found her worthy to be there. Too bad others didn't.

Kusinich confuses me, I'm serious, I can't figure out what he is saying, ever. He doesn't make sense to me, he seems to talk in circles. Maybe I'm not paying attention to him, which is possible, sad to say that Lieberman effects me the same way. Boring.

I like Lieberman, he's my favorite of all the dem hopefuls. I think he is earnest as well, and deserves to be there.

I just don't like John F'en Kerry. I just don't. Maybe it's because he's from MA.

The only two I could even consider voting for are Lieberman and Brown.

Dean's screaming, whatever it really was, doesn't matter. His record speaks louder than he can scream.

[grinner]

Carol Mosely Braun is a horrid person. You should look at the charges against her while she was Senator for Illinois.

[Darth Buddha]

was actually surprised that Clinton made her an ambassador.

Though a lot of the charges made by the right against her were so much tongue wagging, there was enough substance to give me pause.

[StephX]

When I heard his speach I thought he'd make a good wrestling announcer. lol

Seriously, though, I actually like the idea of a feisty candidate. He didn't scare me at all he just seemed passionate.

Hoooowaaaa! :rollin:

[Third EYe]

grinner, I have no blinders on, I understand that Braun (my bad, said Brown earlier) is not on the same level as far as many issues go, I just think that she really beleives in what she is saying. That rates with me, even if I think it's stupid.

[VBKatLou]

Originally posted by Antrobus

There was a news report last night that indicated that more people are going to the interent than ever before to learn about the candidates in the Dem race. There they're able to read where the candidates stand on the issues and one can also read texts of their speeches.

And this is a good thing. IMO it's important not only to vote, but to make an educated vote. I find reading about an individual's voting record, their political experience, etc. more beneficial than listening to a speech.

Originally posted by Judith_Shakespeare
He sounded like Hitler, but speaking English. He scared me.

I watched a show about Hitler last night on the History Channel. After listening to the clip provided by grinner (I didn't hear the speech), it kind of reminded me of Hitler too. However I think it should be noted that while the tone of voice was similar, the actual words Dean was speaking were very different from a Hitler speech.

[Under A Dying Sun]

i was at a baseball game once. lots of screaming fans.

didn't see hitler there.

oh yeah, was at a party. lots of screaming.

hitler didn't show up either.

weird.

[frellyou]

I don't know but it's funny. The howard stern show mixed it into a hilarious song

[Antrobus]

Maybe it's because he's from MA.

Why is it that so much of the rest of the country hates Mass.?
Several years ago The Boston Globe did a Sunday feature article about how disliked Mass was by the southern and midwestern states.

Besides the fact that the state is probably the most liberal state in the country, they have had a string of Republican governors for quite some time Weld (who I liked) Cellucci, Romney (yuck!).

I don't get it. The state doesn't deserve that much hatred. It should garner some respect for its historical significance. Anyone hear of Paul Revere or the Battle of Lexington? Or...the shot heard around the world? The Mayflower Compact? John Adams, John Hancock? the Boston Tea Party? the Boston Massacre?,
The Burning of Charlestown?

No one would have what they have today if it weren't for the Mass. Colonists. Disagree if you will.

[Third EYe]

I was born in MA, lived there a few years as a tax payer. Taxes are way out of wack there, as is NY and CA. MA is a very liberal state, one the most liberal. This is enough not to like it.

I think however I learned to dislike MA while living NH. Very diferent standards of living between the 2 states.

The defining reason for me, the one I can really put my finger on is the Kennedy's, primarily Ted. He's a reprobrate and one of the few I place higher on the liar scale than Gephart. I do know that when I hear MA I hear in the back of my head "the peoples socialist republic of Ted Kennedy"

So my bias maybe irrirational, and of course it doesn't mean I dislike people that live in MA, I have quite a few family there. I don't hate it, I just don't trust politicians from there, even republicans. I'm sure that if I was more familiar with other states, I'd have the same sentiments and thoughts about them. Having lived within and next door to the state for many years, I've probably been soured by that exposure.

Things like "Whitey" Bulger and John Connolly don't help either. The link between the Irish mob, the Catholic Church, Politicians and law enforcement in the Boston area, along with the relunctance of anyone to do anything about it, gives me a sour taste as well.

As far as MA's contribution to our Nation's history, it is most important and should not be slighted in such regards either. This does not excuse anything that is going on today however.

[darius]

I just think he sounded exited. I don't like any of the candidates but why do people compare him to Hitler because he raised his voice? He was smiling most of the time not angry.

I think that the "presidential" way seems to be robotic or wooden. It was geeky at worst, but he acted a little different and that seems to be death in American politics.

[BillFrugge]

Dean was certainly excited. He was excited about coming in third. He even stated as such before the scream. He said that third place was higher than he would have believed a year ago.

The problem with all of this is that he was the frontrunner, and was expected to walk away with Iowa. In that light, he's excited about losing.

He has a long history of having a short temper. It appears he's losing his sanity.

[Antrobus]

Many of you are too young to remember the fate of Edmund Muskie, the Senator from Maine who ran in the Democratic presidential primary back in the late 60s.

Some newspaper ran something negative about his wife Jane. In responding to the article while he was campaiging in Florida (I think) he shed a tear or two. His campaign immediately sank like a stone because of that one incident where he simply showed a human emotion. He was perceived as "weak".

Muskie was an excellent man and would have made an excellent president. So, these candidates have to walk a very narrow line because one "false" move and people's perception will instantly change.

[eta_carinae]

Originally posted by BillFrugge
Dean was certainly excited. He was excited about coming in third. He even stated as such before the scream. He said that third place was higher than he would have believed a year ago.

The problem with all of this is that he was the frontrunner, and was expected to walk away with Iowa. In that light, he's excited about losing.

Well, yeah, I guess. But what are you going to do in a situation like that? You have to remain positive, or you've already lost. I think he was trying to cheer up his campaign people, give them some hope to keep going. I would think it even stranger if he had admitted defeat, everybody was already down, that would have just been worse.

[db11]

Originally posted by Antrobus
Why is it that so much of the rest of the country hates Mass.?
Several years ago The Boston Globe did a Sunday feature article about how disliked Mass was by the southern and midwestern states.

Besides the fact that the state is probably the most liberal state in the country, they have had a string of Republican governors for quite some time Weld (who I liked) Cellucci, Romney (yuck!).

I don't get it. The state doesn't deserve that much hatred. It should garner some respect for its historical significance. Anyone hear of Paul Revere or the Battle of Lexington? Or...the shot heard around the world? The Mayflower Compact? John Adams, John Hancock? the Boston Tea Party? the Boston Massacre?,
The Burning of Charlestown?

No one would have what they have today if it weren't for the Mass. Colonists. Disagree if you will.

As a southerner, politicians from the New England states are often viewed as highly liberal, aristocratic, elitist, and having nothing in common with voters down here. As Third Eye said, MA probably gets the worst of that because of the Kennedys, Ted Kennedy in particular. Now, along comes John Kerry, his $500M+ fortune in tow, to reinforce the idea that MA politicians are nothing but a bunch of liberal, aristocratic elitists with nothing in common with the rest of us. That may not be entirely fair to the man, but in any case, he'll have a very hard time overcoming that stigma in the south (I don't know about the midwest). The fact that the media portrays Bush as an idiot any time he mispronounces a word, especially a one that is actually common in the south and/or midwest (Bush's version of nuclear, nukyular, comes to mind) or makes some other fairly trivial mistake, may also hurt Kerry, because it makes Bush seem more of a 'real person' by comparison.

[DRD2001]

Originally posted by db11
As a southerner, politicians from the New England states are often viewed as highly liberal, aristocratic, elitist, and having nothing in common with voters down here. Really? I've lived in the south all my life. I never realized I was suppose to feel that way. Thanks for the heads up.

[db11]

Note the word 'often'.

[BillFrugge]

Originally posted by eta_carinae
Well, yeah, I guess. But what are you going to do in a situation like that? You have to remain positive, or you've already lost. I think he was trying to cheer up his campaign people, give them some hope to keep going. I would think it even stranger if he had admitted defeat, everybody was already down, that would have just been worse.

Yeah. I know that he was trying to keep his supporters motivated. This is, after all, just one state out of 50. If we keep going with all of these little rules (The Iowa caucus being the state to watch) then there is no more need to hold elections -- at this point, Bush or Kerry will be the President next year depending on whose polls you consult. He'd have been better off saying something to the effect that this was just the beginning.

He was yelling so much that his voice cracked while he was trying to yell "Yeah!!" It just sounds so funny to me. Sort of a primal scream, but sounding like he was injured.

Gephart, however, conceded since he came in fourth. He put everything into the race, and now he doesn't even have an office to go back to. He's not even going to fight.

[eta_carinae]

Originally posted by db11
The fact that the media portrays Bush as an idiot any time he mispronounces a word, especially a one that is actually common in the south and/or midwest (Bush's version of nuclear, nukyular, comes to mind) or makes some other fairly trivial mistake, may also hurt Kerry, because it makes Bush seem more of a 'real person' by comparison.

Actually, I've always snickered at Bush's pronouciation of nuclear because he says it the same way Homer Simpson does :D I don't think it's a bad thing to make fun of a politician when they screw up simple things like speaking. I mean, the guy is supposed to represent us to the rest of the world, and half the time he doesn't speak properly! What really got me mad was in 2002 when we were having the federal sentae elections in Colorado. The campaign for Wayne Allard (the very conservative incumbant Republican) made a big deal about how he was a veterinarian and his rival, the Democrat Tom Strickland, was a lawyer. It was supposed to show how Allard was just like the rest of us, while Strickland was more distant (or something) because he was a lawyer. I never understood it, I mean, it takes at least as much education to become a vet as it does to become a lawyer. And like it would be a bad thing to have a man who has studied law work with them. Eh. Anyway, it must have worked, because Allard is back in Washington again....

[grinner]

Originally posted by eta_carinae
Actually, I've always snickered at Bush's pronouciation of nuclear because he says it the same way Homer Simpson does :D I don't think it's a bad thing to make fun of a politician when they screw up simple things like speaking. I mean, the guy is supposed to represent us to the rest of the world, and half the time he doesn't speak properly! On the topic of speaking properly. George Bush speaks the way he does because he is a Southerner. He speaks like quite a few people that I know from Texas. There is no 'PROPER' English spoken in the US. The Accent that is used on MOST television shows is a MidWestern Accent. Bush speaks with a Texas accent as that is where he lived. For you to denigrate him because of his accent, you are actually denigrating an entire group of people. Just because he has a different accent than what you are used to hearing doesn't make him any less or more intelligent than you. It is just a different accent.

[db11]

Originally posted by eta_carinae
Actually, I've always snickered at Bush's pronouciation of nuclear because he says it the same way Homer Simpson does :D I don't think it's a bad thing to make fun of a politician when they screw up simple things like speaking. I mean, the guy is supposed to represent us to the rest of the world, and half the time he doesn't speak properly! What really got me mad was in 2002 when we were having the federal sentae elections in Colorado. The campaign for Wayne Allard (the very conservative incumbant Republican) made a big deal about how he was a veterinarian and his rival, the Democrat Tom Strickland, was a lawyer. It was supposed to show how Allard was just like the rest of us, while Strickland was more distant (or something) because he was a lawyer. I never understood it, I mean, it takes at least as much education to become a vet as it does to become a lawyer. And like it would be a bad thing to have a man who has studied law work with them. Eh. Anyway, it must have worked, because Allard is back in Washington again....

Making fun of simple mistakes can backfire for the reason I outlined above, especially against a candidate who appears too perfect and too privileged. A lot of everyday people make those same mistakes. It makes a person like Bush seem more like an average, everyday person. In fact, I've often wondered if its not done on purpose.

As for the Colorado race, well, I know nothing about it, except that, as I'm sure you know, lawyers have bad reputations in many circles, whether its deserved or not.

[db11]

Originally posted by grinner
On the topic of speaking properly. George Bush speaks the way he does because he is a Southerner. He speaks like quite a few people that I know from Texas. There is no 'PROPER' English spoken in the US. The Accent that is used on MOST television shows is a MidWestern Accent. Bush speaks with a Texas accent as that is where he lived. For you to denigrate him because of his accent, you are actually denigrating an entire group of people. Just because he has a different accent than what you are used to hearing doesn't make him any less or more intelligent than you. It is just a different accent.

Exactly. That's what I was trying to say, but you've explained it perfectly.

[Judith]

Originally posted by grinner
On the topic of speaking properly. George Bush speaks the way he does because he is a Southerner. He speaks like quite a few people that I know from Texas. There is no 'PROPER' English spoken in the US. The Accent that is used on MOST television shows is a MidWestern Accent. Bush speaks with a Texas accent as that is where he lived. For you to denigrate him because of his accent, you are actually denigrating an entire group of people. Just because he has a different accent than what you are used to hearing doesn't make him any less or more intelligent than you. It is just a different accent.

He's also dyslexic, which means there are some things he has trouble saying. He says things weird in his speeches sometimes because he has trouble reading from the teleprompter. The President has a disabilty, and I think it's sad he's made fun of for that.

[Judith]

Originally posted by VBKatLou




I watched a show about Hitler last night on the History Channel. After listening to the clip provided by grinner (I didn't hear the speech), it kind of reminded me of Hitler too. However I think it should be noted that while the tone of voice was similar, the actual words Dean was speaking were very different from a Hitler speech.

I definately agree. I'm not trying to say Dean=Hitler. I just don't think it was, politically, a great decision of his to sound that harsh, because a lot of people were put off by his screaming.

By the way, were you watching the show called Hitler's Women? It looked interesting and I almost watched, but I ended up watching a show on the Mars rover instead.

[eta_carinae]

Okay, I honestly didn't mean to offend anyone, and I apologize if I did. It's just that, everytime I hear him say "nuclear" it makes me think of the Simpsons and I just start giggling. George Bush has to have something going for him to have made it all the way to the presidency, and I can definetly see the appeal he has for "everyday working people." Personally, I'm not a big fan of Bush, but I know alot of people who are. I mean, I'm sure he's a nice enough guy, and he'd be fun at a barbecue or something, but I didn't vote for him 4 years ago, and I won't this year either. Okay, end of that. I promise not to make fun of his speech anymore :)

[fermicat]

Mispronouncing "nuclear" is not a southern regional thing. People all over the country do it.

Other than the butchered words, I enjoy Bush's southern accent. [Don't usually agree with what he is saying with the nice accent, though.] It reminds me of home, and since I am southern, a southern accent sounds correct to me. But nookyular is not a southernism.

[fermicat]

And about the Big Deal that the press is making about the scream, and about their continued insistence on presenting Dean as "The Angry Guy"..... why does every primary race have to have an angry guy? Last time it was John McCain who was painted with that term -- people acted like he was some kind of loose cannon time bomb. His temper doesn't seem to cause too much trouble in the senate, so why make a big damn deal out of it? Same for Dean. I hate the way the press has to put all the candidates in a little labeled box, as if humans are that simple to understand?

[trubador]

Well, it was Al Gore who (in a speech) said that "E Pluribus Unum" was "Out of one, many"


Uhhhhhh..... NO, Al....... that would be "E Unum Pluribus"

"E Pluribus Unum" means "Out of many, one"

BIG difference. The correct translation means that "out of many different peoples and cultures come ONE country/culture."

Al's translation comes from the politically correct, liberalized view meaning "out of one country comes MANY cultures/people."

The correct translation UNITES.

The Gore translation DIVIDES.

[Under A Dying Sun]

come on...please....even before he was elected, Bush has been a target for political satire and comedy.....and he continues to be.


http://www.bushisms.com

"I will have a foreign-handed foreign policy."
—Redwood, Calif., Sept. 27, 2000

"...I don't need to be subliminabable.." Orlando, FL, Sept. 12 -

"We'll let our friends be the peacekeepers and the great country called America will be the pacemakers."—Houston,Texas, Sept. 6, 2000

http://www.bushisms.com/wizardoil725.jpg

[eta_carinae]

I used to have a bunch of Dan Quale (sp?) quotes tacked onto my door at school. There were just sooooooo many good ones.... Then there is of course, the infamous potato quote. gold, pure gold.

[DRD2001]

Originally posted by Judith_Shakespeare
He's also dyslexic, which means there are some things he has trouble saying. He says things weird in his speeches sometimes because he has trouble reading from the teleprompter. The President has a disabilty, and I think it's sad he's made fun of for that. I don't think anyone is making fun of him for being dyslexic. In fact, has he actually come out and said he is? I knew there was speculation, but I didn't know if it had been publically stated as a fact. Granted, I may have missed some deliberate insult to that effect, but to date, I have not seen it.

Secondly, politicians have always been picked on and poked at for this, that and the other. So why not Bush. Remember Jimmy Carter and his accent. Remember Dan Quayle and his choice of words? Remember Clinton and his Big Macs? Gerald Ford was always falling down, or so it seemed. I think they also picked on Bush Sr. for his grammer too. I'm willing to bet that the presidents don't mind this type of media attention, otherwise they might be looked at more indepth for their actual policies, programs and job performance.

[grinner]

"I did not have sex with that woman... Miss Lewinsky."

"It all depends on what the definition if 'is' is."

[DRD2001]

Originally posted by db11
Note the word 'often'. It means "many times" or "frequently". Sorry, but in my neck of the woods, I still haven't seen it many times or frequently. Maybe I'm too far north?

[grinner]

Originally posted by DRD2001

Gerald Ford was always falling down, or so it seemed. which was silly as Gerald Ford was probably the most athletic and coordinated President ever. A VERY highly regarded College Football player who could have gone Pro and succeeded there if he thought he could have a future in it. Instead he became a lawyer.

[Under A Dying Sun]

definition of 'is' ahah. that's classic. man, what a pair of politcal b%lls clinton had. LOL.

[Under A Dying Sun]

Originally posted by DRD2001

Secondly, politicians have always been picked on and poked at for this, that and the other. So why not Bush. Remember Jimmy Carter and his accent. Remember Dan Quayle and his choice of words? Remember Clinton and his Big Macs? Gerald Ford was always falling down, or so it seemed. I think they also picked on Bush Sr. for his grammer too. I'm willing to bet that the presidents don't mind this type of media attention, otherwise they might be looked at more indepth for their actual policies, programs and job performance.

the phil hartman clinton sketch eating big macs is great. always loved dana carvey doing '1000 points of light' and his ross perot is uncanny. :rollin: :rollin:

[grinner]

"I can spend your money better than you can."

"[I]t depends on how you define "alone" ... there were a lot of times when we were alone, but I never really thought we were."

"You can't say you love your country and hate your government." - Bill Clinton, 1995 (After the OKC bombing)

"A lot of wonderful people love their country and hate the military." - Bill Clinton, 1969 (Letter to the National Guard)

"You know the one thing that's wrong with this country? Everyone gets a chance to have their fair say."

"African-Americans watch the same news at night that ordinary Americans do."

"the purpose of government is to rein in the rights of the people"

all Bill Clinton quotes.

[DRD2001]

See, stupidity knows no political boundaries. The first reality show in America was the presidency. Every word, every movement, etc... recorded for posterity.

[grinner]

and that is why I posted those. Dan Quayle might have said some stupid things... but Bill Clinton and Al Gore did as well.

For every quote that someone posts from a Republican canidate, I can find a stupid thing said by a Democrat.

[trubador]

The thing about the infamous "potatoe" flack with Quayle is that he was reading from a card used by the school district to teach their students. :g2f:

[eta_carinae]

Well, I have to say that Quayle has definelty had some gems. Some of my personal favorites:

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."

"What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is."

"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and that one word is `to be prepared'."

"The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century."

[grinner]

Some of those quotes that you are attributing to Quayle were actually spoken by Al Gore
Al Gore

"A zebra does not change its spots"

"For NASA, space is still a high priority."

"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."

"The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history, I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century."

"I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and the only regret I have was that I didn't study Latin harder in school so I could converse with those people."

"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and that one word is 'to be prepared.'"

"Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things."

"I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future."

"The future will be better tomorrow."

"We're going to have the best-educated American people in the world."

"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."

"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls."

"Illegitimacy is something we should talk about in terms of not having it."


"Welcome to President Clinton, Mrs. Clinton, and my fellow astronauts."

"The American people would not want to know of any misquotes that Al Gore may or may not make."

[grinner]

Originally posted by eta_carinae
Well, I have to say that Quayle has definelty had some gems. Some of my personal favorites:

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."Al Gore said this

"What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is."

"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and that one word is `to be prepared'."Another Al Gore Quote

"The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century." Another Al Gore Quote. Get your facts straight

[Under A Dying Sun]

lol gore.

some of my favorite bush ones too:

"I mean, there needs to be a wholesale effort against racial
profiling, which is illiterate children."
—Second presidential debate, Oct. 11, 2000

"We cannot let terriers* and rogue nations hold this nation hostile
(hostage) or hold our allies hostile.''
—Ibid. *Thanks for the correction, Phyllis (09/09/00)

"if most of the breaks go to wealthy people it's because
'most of the people who pay taxes are wealthy."

"It's clearly a budget.
It's got a lot of numbers in it."
— Reuters, May 5, 2000 (Thanks to Allison Fansler.)

"Laura and I really don't realize how bright our children is sometimes until we get an objective analysis."
— Meet the Press, April 15, 2000

"I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family."
— Greater Nashua, N.H., Chamber of Commerce, Jan. 27, 2000

"When I was coming up, it was a dangerous world, and you knew exactly who they were," he said. "It was us vs. them, and it was clear who them was. Today, we are not so sure who the they are, but we know they're there."
— Iowa Western Community College, Jan 21, 2000

"Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"—
Florence, S.C., Jan. 11, 2000

[grinner]

yeah, but how many stupid things would you say if YOU were in that position. Probably quite a few.

[Under A Dying Sun]

you could say the same about clinton and gore.

btw i would never say terriers. LOL

[grinner]

that is why I said it.

[Under A Dying Sun]

IRAQI HEAD SEEKS ARMS

[eta_carinae]

Originally posted by grinner
Al Gore said this
Another Al Gore Quote
Another Al Gore Quote.
Get your facts straight

Hey now, no need to get snippy. Every time I search for Dan Quayle quotes these pop up. Where do you find them attributed to Al Gore? Either way, they are great. Really, I'm an equal opportunity fun-poker, dem or republican, it doesn't matter to me.

[eta_carinae]

Okay, I just did a search for Al Gore quotes, and found many of the same one's that are attributed to Dan Quayle. So now the question is, what's going on?

[Under A Dying Sun]

just noticed your avatar! lol. awesome. hmm interesting.

i voted gore.

terriers.

[generic_screenname]

Another Al Gore Quote. Get your facts straight

Okay, I just did a search for Al Gore quotes, and found many of the same one's that are attributed to Dan Quayle. So now the question is, what's going on?

GRR!!! See? This is why this stuff pisses me off. There are sites that attribute this quotes to Quayle, Clinton, Gore, and with this being an election year, they'll probably be attributed to Dean or Kerry or Clarke.

So, in an effort to get the facts straight, the following is from snopes.com (http://www.snopes.com/quotes/quayle.htm):

Quote: Vice-President Dan Quayle once said, "I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and the only regret I have was that I didn't study Latin harder in school so I could converse with those people."
Status: False.

Origins: When George Bush, the 1988 Republican nominee for President, announced his vice-presidential running mate, he took nearly everyone by surprise. The man Bush tapped, a young senator named Dan Quayle, was little known outside his home state of Indiana. Senator Quayle soon became a household name, but — much to the chagrin of Bush and the Republicans — not for the reasons they expected. Dan Quayle soon proved himself to be a terrible public speaker: he appeared nervous (even frightened) in front of television cameras, he often fumbled his way through prepared speeches, and his extemporaneous comments frequently defied comprehension. Senator (and, after the election, Vice-President) Quayle and his gaffes soon became the butt of numerous jokes. Just as President Gerald Ford had been forevermore tagged a clumsy bumbler after a few physical mishaps a decade earlier, so Dan Quayle was characterized as "stupid" by the public and the media, a label that would prove impossible to remove once it had been affixed.

With much of the media gleefully reporting every Quayle misstatement and malaprop, it was only a matter of time before demand exceeded supply and someone made up a ridiculous statement and attributed it to the Vice-President. Someone did, and this someone was a rather unlikely source: a Republican congressperson.

In April 1989, Representative Claudine Schneider of Rhode Island told a gathering of Republicans that she had recently attended an event at the Belgian embassy, where Vice-President Quayle complimented her on her command of French. Then, Schneider said, the Vice-President added: "I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and the only regret I have was that I didn't study Latin harder in school so I could converse with those people." Ms. Schneider concluded by admitting that the story was merely a joke, but not all the newspapers reported it that way. Several publications, either through carelessness or a desire not to let the truth get in the way of a good story, reported the story as true. The culprits included such venerable publications as Newsday, the Chicago Tribune, Newsweek, and Time. The fabricated misquote took hold because it sounded exactly like something Dan Quayle (or, more accurately, the Dan Quayle of public perception) would say, and no amount of correction could dislodge it from the public vocabulary.

Dan Quayle has certainly made more than his share of misstatements, and most of the ones on the following list are actual Quayle quotes (although versions of this list with all the quotes mischievously attributed to Vice-President Al Gore and Texas governor George W. Bush also circulate around the Internet). Nearly all of these quotes are reasonable statements that came out garbled when uttered by a poor public speaker, though — it's not hard to tell in most cases what Quayle really meant to say. Compare them to some of the bizarre statements that President Reagan produced when speaking off the cuff, or the twisted, mangled syntax characteristic of President Bush's speech. Let's be fair to Mr. Quayle and not saddle him with something he didn't say.


"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."

"Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child."

"Welcome to President Bush, Mrs. Bush, and my fellow astronauts."

"Mars is essentially in the same orbit . . . Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe."

"What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is."

"The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century."

"I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy - but that could change."

"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and that one word is 'to be prepared.'"

"Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things."

"I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future."

"The future will be better tomorrow."

"We're going to have the best-educated American people in the world."

"People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history."

"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."

"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe."

"I am not part of the problem. I am a Republican."

"I love California, I practically grew up in Phoenix."

"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls."

"When I have been asked during these last weeks who caused the riots and the killing in L.A., my answer has been direct and simple: Who is to blame for the riots? The rioters are to blame. Who is to blame for the killings? The killers are to blame."

"Illegitimacy is something we should talk about in terms of not having it."

"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."

"For NASA, space is still a high priority."

"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children."

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."

"[It's] time for the human race to enter the solar system."

So now here's my question. I did a search for ONE of these quotes, "What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is. " Some sites merely had the quote without giving the source, so you just had to take it on faith that it was accurate. However, many sites DO include when and where the quote was said: Vice President Dan Quayle speaking to the United Negro College Fund, 5/9/89 This gem has been added to Bartlett's `Familiar Quotations'. (reported in Esquire, 8/92) (reported in the NY Times, 12/9/92)

NONE of the sites that attribute that quote to Al Gore have any record of when he said it. Why the frell do you think that is?

Maybe people should do a little research before they tell others to get their facts straight.

[Antrobus]

Just to set straight another fact. The family Bush is not southern by origin. The family came from New England. Their college of preference was Yale, and Bush Sr. owns a large estate, Walker Point, in Kennebunk, Maine which is where they are most of the summer. That's where George W. fell off the scooter.

John Kerry is no more "New England elite" than is George W. Bush. Bush has just adopted Texas as his home and chosen to speak in that Souothern style. One wonders how he spoke when he attended Yale. Yes, THAT Yale! That liberal think tank!! Bet he didn't talk like that back then!!

Yup, he's a REAL Southerner alright!

[mfa96]

"We cannot let terriers* and rogue nations hold this nation hostile
(hostage) or hold our allies hostile.''

I saw this attributed to Gore- when Bush actually said it in Des Moines, Iowa, Aug. 21, 2000.


And as for Bush being a nice guy- a nice guy would not have let Karl Rove and friends run a dirty campaign like they did against Max Cleland.

[db11]

Originally posted by Antrobus
Just to set straight another fact. The family Bush is not southern by origin. The family came from New England. Their college of preference was Yale, and Bush Sr. owns a large estate, Walker Point, in Kennebunk, Maine which is where they are most of the summer. That's where George W. fell off the scooter.

John Kerry is no more "New England elite" than is George W. Bush. Bush has just adopted Texas as his home and chosen to speak in that Souothern style. One wonders how he spoke when he attended Yale. Yes, THAT Yale! That liberal think tank!! Bet he didn't talk like that back then!!

Yup, he's a REAL Southerner alright!

You're exactly right, but as they say in politics, perception is reality. Bush has managed to sell himself as a southerner even though he really isn't one. Being the former governor of Texas helped. It was also difficult, if not impossible, to label him as a liberal.


As for Kerry, he can go ask Michael Dukakis whether or not the label 'Massachusetts liberal' hurt him when the Republicans tagged him with it in 1988. I can guarantee you that the Bush campaign will try their best to apply it to Kerry as well. Interestingly enough, Kerry was Dukakis's Lt. Gov. That, along with his campaigning with Ted Kennedy, will make it just that much more likely to stick if/when they try to do it this time around.

[DRD2001]

Actually, in regards to Teddy Kennedy, all I ever think about is Chappaquidik (I'm sure I've spelled it wrong). I would really love to know the truth about that one. Maybe someone will have a memoir published posthumously.

[eta_carinae]

Originally posted by generic_screenname
GRR!!! See? This is why this stuff pisses me off. There are sites that attribute this quotes to Quayle, Clinton, Gore, and with this being an election year, they'll probably be attributed to Dean or Kerry or Clarke.

So, in an effort to get the facts straight, the following is from snopes.com (http://www.snopes.com/quotes/quayle.htm):

Nearly all of these quotes are reasonable statements that came out garbled when uttered by a poor public speaker, though — it's not hard to tell in most cases what Quayle really meant to say.


"What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is."

"The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century."

"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and that one word is 'to be prepared.'"

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."


NONE of the sites that attribute that quote to Al Gore have any record of when he said it. Why the frell do you think that is?

Thanks for clearing that up, generic_screenname.

[Antrobus]

I can guarantee you that the Bush campaign will try their best to apply it to Kerry as well. Interestingly enough, Kerry was Dukakis's Lt. Gov. That, along with his campaigning with Ted Kennedy, will make it just that much more likely to stick if/when they try to do it this time around.

But, John Kerry ISN'T Michael Dukakis and a comparison isn't going to stick! And don't you think that the Democratic party and those that run campaigns haven't analyzed what the Dukakis mistake(s) were? They won'y make them again.

Of course the Republicans will try and label Kerry, and the Democrats will try and put labels on Bush. That's the way it works.We'll just have to see what sticks.

Of course I'm jumping the gun, Kerry could well not be the Democratic candidate. Perhaps it will be Edwards or Clarke. Can't pin a New England label on them!

[eta_carinae]

Originally posted by Under A Dying Sun
just noticed your avatar! lol. awesome. hmm interesting.

i voted gore.

terriers.

terriers? where? who's avatar? I don't get it :dunno:

[BillFrugge]

Originally posted by Antrobus
But, John Kerry ISN'T Michael Dukakis and a comparison isn't going to stick! And don't you think that the Democratic party and those that run campaigns haven't analyzed what the Dukakis mistake(s) were? They won'y make them again.

Of course not! They'll make new ones. :)

Originally posted by Antrobus
Of course the Republicans will try and label Kerry, and the Democrats will try and put labels on Bush. That's the way it works.We'll just have to see what sticks.

Nice! We just have to fling some more mud, and maybe we can fool enough people into voting for us. Whatever happened representing the people?