A WARNING

[Red]

I do not have the time or the patience for this.

Some of these political threads are becoming exercises in hurtful generalizations. We're getting complaints, people's feelings are getting hurt, longtime posters are thinking of leaving because they feel the mood of the board generating from this forum is becoming hostile to them.

This is beyond ridiculous. This board is about Farscape and about the campaign to save Farscape -- if political discussions in this forum are actively driving campaigners away I will ban all political discussion, because Farscape is more important to the operation of this particular website than who hates or loves George W Bush.

Discussion is good and to be encouraged; broad, sweeping generalizations, comments designed solely to be inflammatory, and sorry old political cliches are not discussion.

If you insist on fiery political debate and discussion, I can get you a very nice, long list of websites where you can hack and slash at each other to your heart's content. But it won't be here.

If anybody wants to whine that I'm taking the liberal or conservative side in this ... clear that thought out of your head immediately. I think liberal and conservative are out-moded labels one group uses to slap on the other to conveniently prepackage and minimize the ideals of somebody they don't agree with. It's bull and I don't buy it. For reference, I'm libertarian (small 'l'), but hey, ask around and some will tell you that on this board I'm a fascist dictator. See? It's all about the labels.

This is the only warning I'll make. My mood is surly this morning, I didn't sleep last night, I apologize if this is abrupt.

If you want to discuss, actually discuss, the mindless generalization crap has to stop. And if you feel that you might be clicking into a thread that you think might just push your buttons … don't click into it. There are lots of threads on this board to amuse and enlighten. Putting out conservative/liberal flame wars and convincing people whose feelings have gotten hurt not to leave the board is not how I want to spend my day or use what energy I have now.


edited to add
I am open to other options aside from topic banning, including a password protected forum where you lot can go at each other like a rabid pack of wolves so long as the understanding is that that stuff doesn't spill out onto the main boards and there's no running to the mods when you lose a battle. I'll make you agree to a terms of use in order to get the password, but it's an option I will seriously consider.

I'd also like to highlight a very nice feature I think some users should take more advantage of. It's the "IGNORE" feature. If there is a user you find particularly annoying, inflammatory, irritating, or just a simple pain in the eema -- click on their profile and down at the bottom of the profile is a link to add that user to your ignore list. Try it out. It's a nice feature and may make your board browsing a more peaceful one.

Thank you.

[stellar]

Originally posted by Red
My mood is surly this morning.

I get that. Last night I broke the carafe for my coffee maker while washing it. This morning I had no coffee.

I wouldn't want to take away from the important message you've outlined, but again - I've had no coffee.

[Red]

My heart breaks for you, Stellar. I can't stand coffee, but I'll drink a Pepsi on your behalf. Sweet, caffeinated life's blood.

[Darth Buddha]

The Bush poll is gone

I was convinced already via a couple of PM's before seeing this warning it had to go.

I did it, so it's done. If anybody has an issue with that, it wasn't a mod issue... don't complain to them, complain to me.

I think the Separation of Church & State in France is going pretty well though... what think you, Red?

[Red]

I haven't looked at it yet, Darth, I've had a long night. I'll check it out in a bit. Thank you for removing that thread, though I hadn't asked you. That was very good of you.

I honestly do believe that everybody here is capable of civil discussion and disagreement.

Consider the password protected forum option. It might be a good solution.

[vikingscaper]

I agree with what you said Red 100%!

[talyn3]

Make my a mod I'll, keep everyone in line.

[bouyantman]

i would like to see a password protected forum...just my opinion :D

[JadedLegend3]

Can someone explain password protected forum please? :)

[VBKatLou]

It means you would see the forum listed on the front page, but the only way you could actually enter the forum is by entering a password. And I think what Red means is 'Enter at your own risk' and if there's something in there that offends or angers you then no bitching to mods or posting about it in any of the other forums.

At least that's my understanding.

edited to add: Red - you go girl! Venting can be a good thing. :)

VBKatLou

Born to bitch

[Mrelia]

That sounds like a good idea.
Man, I musta missed something on the Bush Poll thread. I thought it was OK last time I checked on it.

[mgraylorn]

I have no problem with the banning of any of the topics that have been banned. This is your website and you have the right to run it however you want. I think the rules as established are quite reasonable. There are tons of places to argue the various hotbutton issues, and this does NOT need to be another one.

I personally do not know how well the password protected forum would work. I think there is a good possibility that some people (and I'm not talking about anyone in particular - just human nature in general) will get really P.O.ed and in an attempt to get in the last word, would spill it over into the other forums. Why harbor a potential festering bomb?

People, use your heads. You can tell if a nonFarscape topic is going to cause trouble. I say "going to", because even if you post the most innoculous comment, there are certain topics that push people's buttons, and it will degenerate into a flame war. We all love Farscape and want it back in production. But beyond that, we all have different views about politics, religion, and all the other sensitive topics.

[DRD2001]

On the other hand, if you know a topic is being discussed and you disagree with it or the manner in which it is being discussed, maybe you should think twice about returning again and again and again to that thread. Especially if you intend to leave rude and insulting comments about a some of the people here. You do not have to read every post on this board. You can ignore them.

[General]

You need not worry about me on this subject! I steer clear of all of them.

General

[ThaliaKitty]

It warms my heart to see a site admin get fed up and stop taking it any more. Is it just me, or do I need professional help?

[recklesshumor]

Now I'm upset that I missed that thread! I LOVE it when people take potshots at me!! I vote for the password-protected thread. Angry people are funny.

[Darth Buddha]

Originally posted by Red
I haven't looked at it yet, Darth, I've had a long night. I'll check it out in a bit. Thank you for removing that thread, though I hadn't asked you. That was very good of you. I was required. I had promised, in SIZE=6, that if it degenerated I'd whack it.

And Red, you can just call me Buddha...the whole Sith Lord bit was to put off the riff-raff at the DOM.

WAIT, I AM THE RIFF-RAFF AT THE DOM!

[scrape_medic]

Nope, not just you ThaliaKitty. I come here for Farscape and a bit of fun; some of the political stuff, whilst enlightening to this English "girl" and when there is reasoned argument, does seem like bickering in school yard stuff. [I also get enough political arguement from my crewmate at work - so I come here to escape].

[StarsGoBlue]

Just MHO... but I would NOT want to see a password-only forum.

One of the exceptional things about this site, and group of campaigners here, is the very fact that we ARE and HAVE been able to discuss controversial issues in a non-inflammatory fashion.

While I understand the password-only forum would be separate from the other boards, I personally think it would compromise that feeling of camaraderie and the spirit we've worked so hard to develop here.

It makes me uncomfortable to think that there would be this invisible board lurking in the background where people could be openly hostile toward each other... and if the board wasn't moderated, what topics and threads could degenerate to...

I know some will say, Well Stars, you don't have to go there---and that is absolutely correct, and I wouldn't. I am just saying that the knowledge such a forum exists in conjunction with THIS CAMPAIGN SITE makes me very uncomfortable. That's not what I come here for.

Red says there are a plethora of other places to take such discussions and topics---heck, there's the PM option here, for pete's sake...

I dunno. :dunno: I'm not trying to force my morality on anyone... I'm just saying I disagree with that option, and would be disappointed if it was made a reality.

Yes, sometimes we all get testy, and we will never all agree on anything except that we want more Farscape. But I would rather (and again, this is MHO) hold this site to a higher standard, and ask/expect that posters comply---and if not, no one has any right to complain if a topic is banned, this is NOT OUR BOARD, we're only guests.

And Red, perhaps one or two of the mods would be willing to field those reported posts? So that you aren't bombarded with a lot of complaints that take up time you could be spending on more valuable site and campaign-related work?

I mean, we're frelling LUCKY here---we've been granted this OT forum, and asked simply to be polite and respect each other. We just need to remember that, make use of PMs and the ignore feature if necessary, and remember that this site represents the campaign---and all of US, off-topic forum or not.

Just what I feel. :dunno:

*****Stars :kitty:

[AgentSun]

It makes me uncomfortable to think that there would be this invisible board lurking in the background where people could be openly hostile toward each other... and if the board wasn't moderated, what topics and threads could degenerate to...


but the point is that if we had a separate forum, we'd most likely STOP being "openly hostile" if we were being this way now. i don't think anyone is hostile...we might get tempers flaring and we might debate and argue, but at the end of the day, we are all just people who talk to each other on a message board. it spills into real life, sure, with scaper con and stuff, but ultimately, we are civil people who know that no matter what we disagree on, it is not a reason to dislike an individual. we like each other because we are all good people who can respect each other. and that is why i don't think our words to each other, whether they be in anger or not, are particularly inflammatory.

i think my point is this: new posters who come here looking for a fun place for farscape is going to find a lot of that, but he or she will also find an OT forum where tons of intelligent minds come together and put together thoughts and feelings and sometimes it they may get a little riled up about them. to me, this is healthy. if you have an opinion and don't try to defend it, then what the heck are you doing with an opinion in the first place?

i think the idea of a separate forum is interesting and a worthwhile consideration simply because not everyone is into politics. and while there is the "if you dont like it dont click it" argument, it is an OT board, not a political discussion board. i enjoy politics. anything said on any of the threads, i never take personally. i believe that we respect each other enough to not intentionally make any personal attacks, though i suppose that may have happened in the past.

anyhow, i think the idea is worth considering because it would provide political discussors with more freedom and leeway to discuss whatever aspect of politics they'd like. i think we're very good about self censoring at the moment. as Buddha's threads and polls have recently stated in large capital letters something akin to "BE CIVIL". if we aren't or the thread becomes hostile, then we whack it. we understand that it is not worth discussing if we can't do it like intelligent human beings.

and now, i need to get off my soapbox.

[VBKatLou]

When I first read this thread this morning, I thought "Yes. Just have a place where people can go and do what they want and if you don't like what you see, it's your own fault for going in there in the first place". However, after reading Stars post, I think that this time we should rise above what we want (a place to act like rabid wolves) and go for what's best for the reputation of the watchfarscape site in general.

And there you go - a proclaimed conservative Republican and a bleeding heart liberal Democrat agree.

:rollin: sorry - had to put that last bit in

[stellar]

Originally posted by Darth Buddha
if it degenerated I'd whack it.

That's what she said.

[Darth Buddha]

Stellar, how can you be so damned funny on-line?

Are you this funny in person?

[NYPinTA]

I agree with Stars.

Originally posted by stellar
That's what she said.

:lol The pharse that will not die!

[BlackThorn]

While I think a password protected forum is a great idea, the pessimist in me is already seeing people bring crap from in there out to the rest of FMD, and I don't want to see that. The thing I'm worried about in the long run is that people who would be normally willing to work together on the campaign won't be so willing to work together anymore, and that will hurt the cause.

If anything, I guess it's worth a try. We won't really know how it'll turn out until we see it in action, after all. If it proves to be troublesome still, then we could nix the idea and go from there.

:shrug:

[grinner]

I don't think that I have been vitriolic in quite a while. I personally would rather keep the discussions open... as long as they could be kept civil. If that isn't possible... then maybe a password-protected forum would work.

[Darth Buddha]

It is too bad.. I've had to seriously reconsider my views because of the arguments of grinner, Ancient, vhsiv, Ouroboros, and many, many others. We don't always agree, we ARE all friends here.

It seems to only take somebody to start with ad hominem attacks and most people lose it... I am guilty of making value laden arguments at such times myself.

I'm going to be limited to posting pretty boring OT polls for a while just to avoid a repeat. Again, too bad. There was a lot of INTERESTING stuff posted in that thread as well.

[Darth Buddha]

Originally posted by grinner
I don't think that I have been vitriolic in quite a while. I personally would rather keep the discussions open... as long as they could be kept civil. If that isn't possible... then maybe a password-protected forum would work. grinner, I am in NO way associating you with this last escalation.

You were positively benign... and actually were acting more as a referee than anything else. I've tried to referee at times (I remember one on gay marriage -- and it just wouldn't chill despite what anybody said to de-escalate it). Member refereeing should probably be more of a priority for us all.

[AgentSun]

well one think i think we all want is to be respected and i think that if we were to open a new forum, it would need to have some severe rules and consequences to go along with it. personal attacks are not wanted on any level by anyone i am sure and a failure to comply would have a consequence. as far as discussion goes, say what you will about the subject just nothing degrading and attacking to anyone in specific. i think we can all abide by that or we can be booted out.

[trubador]

Having read all of the above posts, I have to tend to agree with Stars. Although a separate forum (password protected) sounds good on the surface, what might end up happening is a division between FMD members. This separate clique goes hiding behind an unmonitored forum where tempers flare (on OT issues of all things, not FS), and where members could talk behind other members' backs. plus, it'll take up a lot of server/bandwidth space that would be better served for the main purpose of this forum/community --- TO SAVE FARSCAPE.

The OT forum (I felt) was a place to shoot the breeze when things FS-wise and Campaign-wise slowed down, to help keep the community alive and TOGETHER. I have no qualms about having an OT topic banned because (A) it's not my website/forum, (B) it's not crucial to FS, and (C) it helps to keep all members (and the many, many more lurkers out there) together in a safe and open environment.

Your call, Red. :aok:

[JadedLegend3]

:bump: Just 'cause.

[BlueCatShip]

I realize I don't visit here often, but my two cents:

1 Cent I have not seen "Zhaan Filters" mentioned in a long time. Remember those? Zhaan Filters are like rose-colored glasses for realists. No sermons. Being tolerant of others' differences even if one disagrees. Seeing the value in others and thinking about their comments without assuming what the words mean. ...I wish I could put it a little better than that. -- But think about the classy way Zhaan would deal with people, and rarely would she get angry about it.

2 Cent One of the things I like most about Farscape and the fans is that we can have reasoned discussions without often degenerating into flame wars. But from time to time, it happens. We have lost good people that way, folks! Let's try to be better than that.

I would hate to see a password-protected forum for political or other hot-button discussion. Why? First, because people are people and someone would let their feelings spill over into the other forums. Not productive, and it defeats the purpose of the protected forum. Second, because it is exclusionary, like some shadow-conspiracy thing: "We're over here discussing something and you're not special enough to join us. This clubhouse is just for members who know the secret handshake. No hew-mons allowed!"

If we are going to keep Farscape fandom to the open and intelligent and inclusive standard that we say we want, we have to consciously make the effort to keep it that way.

I hate to see topics declared off-limits, for the same reasons (open, honest, reasoned debate). But I realize some things are just about guaranteed to throw a bomb into a field of flowers, as it were.

OK, down off my holier-than-thou soapbox now.

("Geez, I thought he'd never shut up. Who *is* that BCS guy, anyway?")

[Roland]

Ditto on what BCS said! Well said my friend... :)

[Clarsax]

Same here. I couldn't have put it better myself.

[SabaceanBabe]

"Zhaan Filters" - I love it. I wonder if we could get a patent on that...?

[BlueCatShip]

I wish I could remember who began the idea of Zhaan Filters and who gave a good definition. They were introduced early on on the Dom by fans trying to keep the early fandom friendly and in an effort to fight off the :censored: trolls. It may have been grammykins, or I may be completely off track. I'm not sure even google will be able to find it on the old Dom pages, but I'm going to try.

Hey, it's nice to be appreciated. You guys rock.

[Jul]

a :bump: just as a reminder... if you think a thread is going to piss you off, do yourself a favor and don't go in!

[stellar]

What if this thread pisses me off? I'm already here.

[waltersgirl]

What if this thread pisses me off? I'm already here.

then leave it and don't post.


and i'll add here what i wrote on Darth Buddha's thread. we have no plans to create a password protected forum. it was simply one of many ideas tossed out for feedback.