Clockwork Nebari (with Die Me Dichotomy spoilers)

[Kurt_eh]

This thread's about Clockwork Nebari, but it's got a really really HUGE DMD -s2 finale-SPOILERS!!!!!

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Die Me Dichotomy spoilers below.

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Do NOT read this thread if you haven't seen DMD

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LAST CHANCE!

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ABANDON ALL HOPE YE WHO ENTER HERE:

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Upon re-watching Clockwork Nebari today, I was starting to wonder. Was that Harvey-John this whole time?

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[JrMissToughChick]

No... why would you think that?

[Kurt_eh]

He took on the surfer-hippie persona. Which I can understand.

Pretend to be drugged out and such, throw of the Nebari.

What got me thinking was we see Harvey trying to knock John out of the clensing, and bang, he's out of it.

But he's acting "extra-wierd." Like playing hockey with spanky, for example.

It's hard to describe. Try rewatching the episode with that in the back of your mind... It almost felt like although John was "in charge" of his actions, it was really Harv pulling the strings...

[JrMissToughChick]

NO I still don't see it I've seen this epp probaly 50 times (exadurated of course) It's John I know it... scorpy/harvey is just helping

[Kurt_eh]

One of the primary themes of Season 2 is John's "desent into madness."

As he falls further down the ladder, Harvey gets stronger and stronger. First a little nudge here, a little nudge there. Keeping the "valued goods" save. Later he starts revealing himself more and more, LATP, WGFA, ACN, until Harvey-John finally takes over. What if this is just a test run?

The other thing that makes me wonder, is John usually keeps his pop-culture to a one-at-a-time deal. Harvey is the one who can't get them straight, and mixes them ad-hock and out of context.

This is what we saw John doing that entire episode. John thinks he's in control, but there's definately some string-pulling in the background.

Which further brings up the :eek: factor in Rygel's humerous, ironic, and somewhat foreshadowy statement: "I am nobody's puppet!"

We all know that just 4 episodes later, John most definately is!

I'm not sure I buy it myself, but meh, food for thought...

[JrMissToughChick]

No he was still John up untill DMD... I'm sure

[Kurt_eh]

I'd give you 75% John. I still think there was 25% harve in there somewhere, just under the surface. Kinda like a back-seat-driver's version of a test drive ;)

[JrMissToughChick]

maybe 10-15% harvey but I think that can be said for almost all the series

[Kurt_eh]

Was there a season 1 episode with John in a similar "role-playing" situation? Not the one in Nerve, but a different time?

'Twould be interesting to compare...

Thanks for the thoughts, 'night!

[JrMissToughChick]

um... TTBRC? maybe

[Kurt_eh]

Hm, I'll have to check it out.

Thoughts on the Neural Clone. And this might settle the debate...

Is it just me, or does the NC have 2 separate personalities?

I'll refer to the first one as "Scorpy-John" and the second as Harvey.

SJ is very calm, controlled, sophisticated, and above all, patient. He's the NC we see take over John in DMD. He's the one in control in WGFA, and LATP. His personality, is not unlike the person it is modeled after. He's the one that emerges when JOHN is threatened.

Harvey, on the other hand, appears to be a fight-or-flight personality that the neural clone has developed, IN COMBINATION with John's personality and methods. Harvey is the personality that is fights for it's own survival when the NC itself is threatened. In CDM, he's threatened by Traltix's light: "Shoot her, and then we'll have pizza and margarita shooters!" He's the one John takes on, and compartmentalizes, and the one that remains throughout the bulk of the series.

He's the one I saw in John in ACN: SJ was the "Fight it" clone, but Harvey was pulling the strings, spewing the poorly juxtaposed cultural references, and playing hockey with Rygel...

[MrX]

I always saw Harvey as basically being Scorpy in John's head until Season 3. Up to the dumpster scene, he walked, talked, and acted a lot like Scorpy. I did notice that if it is Harvey in CDM, he does act a little crazier. Other posters think that maybe Traltixx was affecting both John and Harvey. Anyway, I've always felt that Harvey doesn't truly become Harvey until Season 3, when he begins to be a little wilder and always played dress up in Crichton's head.

[jayelsee]

Was there a season 1 episode with John in a similar "role-playing" situation? Not the one in Nerve, but a different time?He played the "surfer dude" for a short time in "Thank God It's Friday, Again". Definitely pre-Harvey/NC, and all John's invention--a studied, deliberate & conscious (sp?) "role", obviously not influenced by the then non-existant clone.

Is it just me, or does the NC have 2 separate personalities?I think so. The Scorpy NC and "Harvey" seem distinctly different personas to me. "Harvey" is influenced if not fully formed (or shaped) by John, for sure.

[Kurt_eh]

Bumping for today's airing of DMD in Canada

[janey_13]

Originally posted by Kurt_eh
The other thing that makes me wonder, is John usually keeps his pop-culture to a one-at-a-time deal. Harvey is the one who can't get them straight, and mixes them ad-hock and out of context.

This is what we saw John doing that entire episode. John thinks he's in control, but there's definately some string-pulling in the background.

I just thought that since he was supposed to be drugged and acting a little weirder than usual that John was just cranking up his personality a bit for his 'performance.' Just a thought...