Moya-John or Talyn-John who was your favorite?

[JrMissToughChick]

I just wondered because I was acused of Hating Talyn-John just because I don't miss him... I always like Moya-John more because...

A.) He was going to stay no matter what happened to T-John (earth, death, limbo... whatever)

B.) I always had a thing for come from behind Guys

C.) He didn't have Aeryn... yet he pinned for her

D.) He worked on Wormhole Theory

Any one else got reasons you like one or the other more?


PS: do not get me wrong I love John Crichton not T-John not M-John but John Crichton so I realy can't say I hate either of them AND I NEVER DID!

Love,
~JrMTC~

[BadGirl]

Moya-John has always been my favourite. I guess that I liked him because he stayed on Moya while the other one went with Talyn. Talyn-John died to save the wormhole technology but I aways knew from the split that something bad was going to happen from one of them.

[MrX]

Definitely M-John. He was the true underdog. No notes, no girl, no special gun. Just had to use his brain to find the wormholes. Then he spends months missing the woman he loves only to reunite with her and find out that she doesn't see him the same way and that she's had a worse time than he has. Ah yes, Season 3 I was an M-John fan. Then he had to start using laka...

[Selena]

They were both John Crichton. In my mind they were both the same person. Moya John is every bit as heroic and caring as Talyn John who died.

It was after all, Moya John who went to the Gammak base to save Aeryn when she was dying and that was way before the twinning.

John Crichton has always, without hesitation, put his life on the line for his friends and the greater good. His one act of selfishness cost Zhaan her life and it haunts him still.

[JadedLegend3]

Moya-John definatley. While Talyn-John did die, Moya-John suffered far more. I like Moya-John and think he is the original from Premiere.

[Chi27]

How can you vote for one over the other. They are one in the same. One is an under dog which you can feel emphathy for because he had nothing -- no Aeryn, no notes, just the wormhole technology locked away in his brain. Then there's Talyn John who has it all. Aeryn loves him and without any doubts or hesitation wants to go back to Earth with him and he has conquered wormholes. However, I found myself favoring Talyn John until the crew reunited.

[Scaper_S]

I can't vote for either. I am also of the view they are one and the same.

[so-much-4-sanity]

I voted Moya/John, I love Talyn/John, but the place Moya/John went to moved me; it was subtle. Whenever I see Revenging Angel my heart just goes out to him. Just as my heart goes out to Aeryn when thinking of Talyn/John.

[norweigan_scaper]

well . . . . . . that was unexpected:confused: :confused:

i'm the first person to vote for TJ :)

i guess i should validate my response,
the episodes with Talyn-John I adore because they are idyllic romance followed by a beautifuly done death scene, followed by the choice, possibly my favorite episode ever. (I love greek tragedy, can you tell?;) )

ok, now you can open fire
:)

NS

[Clarsax]

I liked them both, but I tended to feel for Moya John more because there he was stranded on Moya thinking only of Aeryn and she had already forgotten all about him and was starting a relationship with Talyn John. That part did bother me a little, that they were both ready to forget about Moya John and his feelings toward Aeryn and to pretend that he didn't exist.

[JrMissToughChick]

Originally posted by Clarsax
I liked them both, but I tended to feel for Moya John more because there he was stranded on Moya thinking only of Aeryn and she had already forgotten all about him and was starting a relationship with Talyn John. That part did bother me a little, that they were both ready to forget about Moya John and his feelings toward Aeryn and to pretend that he didn't exist. I think they thought about him all the time but he was just like an elephant in the room they didn't want to talk about him if they bought him up they would feel way to guilty about thier romance


PS: if they got back to earth I think Talyn John would have felt very guilty because he left the other John stranded in space not on earth not with Aeryn that would make a real interesting fan fic... nevermind just random babbelings

[scapergin]

That which we call a John by any other name would be as sweet.


if i had to choose i guess it'd be moya john

[Blaise Russel]

Moya-John did Scratch'n'Sniff.

'Nuff said.

[JadedLegend3]

Originally posted by Clarsax
I liked them both, but I tended to feel for Moya John more because there he was stranded on Moya thinking only of Aeryn and she had already forgotten all about him and was starting a relationship with Talyn John. That part did bother me a little, that they were both ready to forget about Moya John and his feelings toward Aeryn and to pretend that he didn't exist.

I agree. Meanwhile when she was on Moya it was always, "No, no, no...we can't." She moves to Talyn and suddenly the rules change? What's up with that?

[Chi27]

Originally posted by norweigan_scaper
well . . . . . . that was unexpected:confused: :confused:

i'm the first person to vote for TJ :)

i guess i should validate my response,
the episodes with Talyn-John I adore because they are idyllic romance followed by a beautifuly done death scene, followed by the choice, possibly my favorite episode ever. (I love greek tragedy, can you tell?;) )

ok, now you can open fire
:)

NS

Yes, they were perfect together...which was a red flag that their romance and life together was doomed. But it's sad to think about Moya John pining for Aeryn and not experiencing what his twin was experiencing with her.

[Harveylives]

Even though they were both the same, I was really upset when Talyn-John decided to take the first boat home and leave Moya-John out there and still hunted by who knows what. That was inexcusable, and not something I'd expect from JC at anytime.

[MrX]

I still wonder if he would have really done it. Would he really have just left himself in the Uncharted Territories? I would think that he would at least try to go out and get Moya-John. I don't know though.

[Colonel Angus]

moya-john cause the episodes are entertaining and has a different style 'scratch n sniff', 'revenging angel'

[Dangermousie]

M-John. Very silly reason. I knew which one survived :)

[Chi27]

I still wonder if he would have really done it. Would he really have just left himself in the Uncharted Territories? I would think that he would at least try to go out and get Moya-John. I don't know though.


I don't believe he would've left himself stranded in the UTs. I think he and Aeryn, once they came down off their adrenaline rush there on Dam ba da, that they would've gone back to Moya. Talyn John had wormhole tech figured out which is something that Moya John had been striving for since the beginning. It's hard to say after that point, who would've ended up going back Earth -- Talyn John and Aeryn or Moya John alone. The decision would have to be whether Moya John would want to co-exist on the same planet with the other one. For Aeryn, I believe it's somewhat easier since to her Talyn John as we have dubbed him is "John Crichton" and she'll follow him anywhere. Maybe Talyn John would give the knowledge to the other and decide to the remain in the UTs with Aeryn. However, in the end I think there would be a lot of bitterness between the two since they both believe the other is a clone.

[Darth Buddha]

Talyn John did not figure out the remaining wormhole information. He had it unlocked by Ancient/Jack. Moya John did that on his own.

[Mike0812]

Well, this will sound maddingly frustrating and p'bly pointless, BUT, I'd have to go with John Crichton :elol: :D .

Mike

[Jeff O'Connor]

I liked Talyn-John more, because I've always been a greater fan of an episode of anything that pertains to the "developing main story arc/plot" than the side ones, which for good reason Moya-John had, while Talyn-John had more important ones, what with Xhalax's Retrieval Squad, the Ancients, the Scarrans, all of that. What did Moya-John face? A planet filled with hormone-sniffers and Ka'yote D'Argo. The tragedy of Talyn-John was beautiful; he had it all and different people could argue until they were blue in the face of what he would do with it, but the fact is, in the end, he lost it. And "Choices" might well be my favorite episode too... the resonant brilliance of it was completely mind-frelling for me. The last chapter to the Xhalax "saga" if you will, Aeryn's grief for John and its tremendous effects on her... it was stellar for me. I think both Johns were equally the same person as it was pointed out in the show itself, but once they were separated from each other the experiences they were put through made them slightly different from one-another, if you get my point of view... they became different people. By the end of Season 3 we can forget that we're now watching what became dubbed "Moya John" and just see him as good old John Crichton again, but nevertheless, I'll always hold a special place in my heart for "Talyn-John Crichton".

[waltersgirl]

both equally

[Chi27]

I liked Talyn-John more, because I've always been a greater fan of an episode of anything that pertains to the "developing main story arc/plot" than the side ones, which for good reason Moya-John had, while Talyn-John had more important ones, what with Xhalax's Retrieval Squad, the Ancients, the Scarrans, all of that. What did Moya-John face? A planet filled with hormone-sniffers and Ka'yote D'Argo. The tragedy of Talyn-John was beautiful; he had it all and different people could argue until they were blue in the face of what he would do with it, but the fact is, in the end, he lost it. And "Choices" might well be my favorite episode too... the resonant brilliance of it was completely mind-frelling for me. The last chapter to the Xhalax "saga" if you will, Aeryn's grief for John and its tremendous effects on her... it was stellar for me. I think both Johns were equally the same person as it was pointed out in the show itself, but once they were separated from each other the experiences they were put through made them slightly different from one-another, if you get my point of view... they became different people. By the end of Season 3 we can forget that we're now watching what became dubbed "Moya John" and just see him as good old John Crichton again, but nevertheless, I'll always hold a special place in my heart for "Talyn-John Crichton".

Thank you, Jeff! Very well said. Those episodes with T-John and Aeryn resonate with me, as well. Yes, I know M-John was hurting and missing Aeryn and episodes such as SnS was fun, but to me the heart was in the Talyn-John episodes. Like you said those are the episodes that advanced the story.

I watched The Choice last night and it's a heartbreaker. Aeryn is not only grieving over her loss of John, but she loses her mother, as well. Isn't that a kick in the teeth. Her mom's life was tragic and even though you know she came after Aeryn, you still can't in the end hate her. Just like you can see that Aeryn didn't hate her, either. She was that close to getting her to drop the gun as her mother really didn't want to kill Aeryn. (If she did, she wouldn't have intentionally missed with those first two shots.) Xhallax was about to when Crais charged in and then all hell broke loose. Aeryn ends up granting what her mother wanted -- to let her fall. So in such short span of time, Aeryn has also lost her mother in addition to John.

I've been saying all along that both John's were the same, but they started to become unique due to their separate experiences. Up to the point where they went in different directions -- one going on Talyn, they had the same memories, but after that they didn't share anything anymore. IMO, that's why it was so hard for Aeryn to face M-John in Fractures. Imagine being in grief over the loss of John and then having to face someone who is his equal twin, but who isn't him because he hasn't shared the same experiences.

[Jeff O'Connor]

Thank you, Jeff! Very well said. Those episodes with T-John and Aeryn resonate with me, as well. Yes, I know M-John was hurting and missing Aeryn and episodes such as SnS was fun, but to me the heart was in the Talyn-John episodes. Like you said those are the episodes that advanced the story.

I watched The Choice last night and it's a heartbreaker. Aeryn is not only grieving over her loss of John, but she loses her mother, as well. Isn't that a kick in the teeth. Her mom's life was tragic and even though you know she came after Aeryn, you still can't in the end hate her. Just like you can see that Aeryn didn't hate her, either. She was that close to getting her to drop the gun as her mother really didn't want to kill Aeryn. (If she did, she wouldn't have intentionally missed with those first two shots.) Xhallax was about to when Crais charged in and then all hell broke loose. Aeryn ends up granting what her mother wanted -- to let her fall. So in such short span of time, Aeryn has also lost her mother in addition to John.

I've been saying all along that both John's were the same, but they started to become unique due to their separate experiences. Up to the point where they went in different directions -- one going on Talyn, they had the same memories, but after that they didn't share anything anymore. IMO, that's why it was so hard for Aeryn to face M-John in Fractures. Imagine being in grief over the loss of John and then having to face someone who is his equal twin, but who isn't him because he hasn't shared the same experiences.

Yeah, Chi, we're definitely on the same wavelength here with our thoughts on the matter. I'm glad to see I'm not alone on it! Yes, Aeryn definitely went through so much trauma in Season Three, it's unreal. But it is real, it's presented believably... it's Farscape.

[LAScaper]

I've been saying all along that both John's were the same, but they started to become unique due to their separate experiences. Up to the point where they went in different directions -- one going on Talyn, they had the same memories, but after that they didn't share anything anymore. .


Exactly! They're both John Crichton. Equally. From the very start they fought because they both wanted the SAME life, and the same "center". Aeryn. They only started becoming unique once they started living separate lives.

T-John had Aeryn so he was blissfully happy. M-John lost Aeryn and was predictably cranky and he buried himself in wormholes, I think, to take his mind off of Aeryn and T-John.

I guess I just don't understand the need to choose between them. :dunno:

[meowscape]

I think choosing between them is missing the point.. There is no between, it's like a flatworm that gets cut in half, and now you have two.
To choose which one is better is like taking two identical apples and asking:
would you like the red apple... or the red apple...

[Spaghetti Jesus]

I agree with pretty much everything thats been posted on this, but i still figured i'd thrown my opinion in.

during season 3 after the talyn/moya seperation i felt like talyn john was the "story-arc" john chricton but never really was convinced that he fully embodied being the real john chricton.

although he died a rather tragic death and had a short post twinning lifespan, the time he had with aeryn made him a lot better off then moya john. in fact he more or less screw moya john over at the end of thanks for sharing, taking off with most of "their possesions" and positioning himself to be with aeryn, thanks in part to the fact he was taken out of the planetary action in that episode when the bomb exploded leaving other john to clean up the mess.

it always bugged me that aeryn suddenly jumped in the sack and got into a relationship with john almost immediately after the seperation and 2+ years of messing with john's head. if anything this should have made her further repress their relationship. ok enough of my complaints with talyn john and aeryn

moya john tended at least for me to represent what john chricton was all about, which was being put in akward situations and not having things go his way. following hte seperation his further fall into wormhole obsession developed and he found himself at odds with d'argo and the rest of the crew and pilot. also when aeryn finally did come back he was devasted first by her reaction to him, then by her leaving him yet again. not to mention everyone else leaving him and being stranded in space.

while a bit off topic as it drifts into season 4, i think that the john chricton of the final season was a signficantly damaged one as a result of all that took place following the twinning. and when aeryn finally comes back again he has to deal with 1) she left him w/o trusting him enough to tell him of the pregnancy 2) she may or may not be in league with scorpius 3) she loved the other chricton and left him 4) she isn't even remotely the aeryn she once was and became an assassin 5) he went through a hell of a lot in the time since the end of season 3 as well...can't help but feeling for the guy

ok im done...sorry for babbling

[PKTechDude]

Seeing as they are both John Crichton, I'll have to go with John Crichton. :p :D

[your side my side]

[your side my side]

Before I came on this board I used to think I was the only person in the world who preferred Moya John. By the time I'd gotten to the middle of reading this thread, I was pleased to find someone actually sticking up for the Talyn Version., But I still voted for Moya John. I just felt so sorry for him as a result of that scene with d/argo at the end of thanks for sharing. And as someone says earlier on here [where's the quote button gone?!?!] Talyn John rather quickly and casually dismissed his counterpart. That attitude made him seem to me as if he was a ninety nine percent perfect clone of the original. There was just something missing. In my humble opinion.

[UnixWarrior]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Moya-John starting to acquire some of Talyn-John's memories. If I remember correctly, in "A Prefect Murder", the remaining John Crichton had memories of Aeryn's mother, even though he never met her.

I don't think the writer's followed through with this in other episodes, but it was an intriguing idea.

[blue]

That's very interesting, UnixWarrior. I never noticed that. Is that after MJohn gets the message from TJohn thru Stark's mask? Because Stark touched the memories of TJohn when he was dying, and might have somehow passed them on through the mask to MJohn.

I especially liked the intrusion of the alternate time-line John from The Locket in Choices, when Aeryn would have had no memory of him, but somehow did, then--as if all the Johns, in all the possible realities, were somehow connected, and different aspects of the same person.

And I agree with most of the posts here that MJohn is the more sympathetic, if one has to choose--on the other hand, TJohn is HOT.

[LAScaper]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Moya-John starting to acquire some of Talyn-John's memories. If I remember correctly, in "A Prefect Murder", the remaining John Crichton had memories of Aeryn's mother, even though he never met her.

I don't think the writer's followed through with this in other episodes, but it was an intriguing idea.

I really wondered about that too. When I first heard him say "you should have met her mother" (or something along those lines) I assumed that he was judging by what he had been TOLD by the crew that was on Talyn.

But I've spoken to quite few fans who think there's something deeper going on. Like maybe M-John and T-John are becoming one-John again. They never did pursue that idea on the show, but it has made for really good fan fics material! ;)

[JrMissToughChick]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Moya-John starting to acquire some of Talyn-John's memories. If I remember correctly, in "A Prefect Murder", the remaining John Crichton had memories of Aeryn's mother, even though he never met her.

I don't think the writer's followed through with this in other episodes, but it was an intriguing idea.
This is true... in WSS in the monologe I felt as though that John Crichton blew the scarran ship up with his "but I have." and looks to Aeryn aww it was said as though that John believed he had (I did till I saw the second airing and was like "wait he's not the one")

[UnixWarrior]

Greetings all, and thanks for the replys. This is what makes Farscape so special -- there's always something to think about and ponder!


Is that after MJohn gets the message from TJohn thru Stark's mask? Because Stark touched the memories of TJohn when he was dying, and might have somehow passed them on through the mask to MJohn.

Hummm? I didn't think of that. There was some discussion on the SciFi Farscape board some time ago about where the memories M-John was experiencing were coming from. I posed the question: "When John was "doubled" where did the second soul come from?" I'm of the opinion that there was really only one John Crichton, he was just in two places at once, probably because I felt bad for M-John being left on Moya.


TJohn is HOT
Is that because he's with Aeryn? I'm watching "Meltdown" as I type, and T-John and Aeryn can't keep their hands off each other:

TJohn: I've got the control back, let me show you.
Aeryn: I love it when you take control.

Aeryn: I can manually prime the canon.
TJohn: I'd love to see that.
Aeryn: Talyn's canon.
TJohn: I'm stoked not stupid ... do it.

I think its easier to be HOT when you have someone to be HOT with ;-)

[LAScaper]

This is true... in WSS in the monologe I felt as though that John Crichton blew the scarran ship up with his "but I have." and looks to Aeryn aww it was said as though that John believed he had (I did till I saw the second airing and was like "wait he's not the one")


Yep. More classic Farscape double meanings. John had to say he was the one who destroyed the scarran ship, because the bad guys don't know about T-John. Doesn't really matter though because this John has the same worm hole knowledge and abilities. Or,...

Is John having T-John memories? Hmmmm?


I just love Farscape!!!!! :cool:

[soyarma]

I actually have a totally different reason for liking M-John better, and that is because that is the John who mended his relationship with D'Argo. When Aeryn came back she was all anti-Crichton, but that really wasn't the first time. You could actually take the whole T-John storyline out of the series and not really change the outcome of season 4 that much. Effectively it was mostly moot.

But I actually think that the relationship between D'Argo and John is almost as important as the one between John and Aeryn. Aeryn is a foregone conclusion. The writers aren't so cold hearted that they would keep those two apart forever, but they are often willing to throw in conflict between John and D'Argo. Without Aeryn around to cloud his mind M-John managed to get everything on the up and up with D'Argo and I think that that is invaluable.

I also have a very odd season 4 view. I think that in season 4 John is at his most rational. Sure he gets on drugs and has a nuke. But he has really come to grips with what he needs to do. There is no more hmming and hawwing and flitting about. He gains purpose and determination and the will to do what needs to be done and to hezmana with the naysayers. I think that the crew really picks up on this and that is why they are with him and there is little dissent over the direction their journey needs to take.

[UnixWarrior]

Originally Posted by LAScaper
Is John having T-John memories? Hmmmm?
Yes, I believe he is. I've been thinking about "A Prefect Murder" since my last post.

Its been quite a while since I watched APM, so I'm going by memory here, but a couple of times in this episode John has what can best be described as memory flashes.

These memory flashes happen very quickly on screen, but if you have the ability to slow them down, (I have a ReplayTV, so I can backup and go forward in slo-mo), some of the memory flashes are of things that happened to Talyn-John, and, as I recall things that hadn't happened yet.

Also, while not directly related to John's memories, and again if I remember correctly, the lead-in of APM (the stuff that flashes by at the very start of the episode) had stuff in it that hadn't happened yet either (at this point in the story).

This is going to make me watch APM again on DVD this weekend.

Wow, Farscape always gives you something to think about!

[ukscapee]

you know what i'm not gonna choose. i like both as they each show different aspects of the charachter. but i have to say i like soyarma's reasoning.

[monochromegirlxx]

I liked them both, but I tended to feel for Moya John more because there he was stranded on Moya thinking only of Aeryn and she had already forgotten all about him and was starting a relationship with Talyn John. That part did bother me a little, that they were both ready to forget about Moya John and his feelings toward Aeryn and to pretend that he didn't exist.

Yeah, it bothered me too. All through T!John's death scene, I cried, but I kept thinking about M!John. I tend to like M!John more... empathy towards him runs v. strong. However, I like them both. And while I adore The Choice, I always feel angry with Aeryn while watching it because I think immediatly of M!John.

[Lost Like Me]

And while I adore The Choice, I always feel angry with Aeryn while watching it because I think immediatly of M!John.
But I can't blame them for falling in love, and M'John doesn't have anything to do with that. I would have been very disappointed in Aeryn if she had reacted any differently about T'John's death. The man she finally let herself love died in her arms, and abracadabra, here's another one. That would be hard for anyone, let alone someone who has buried her emotions her entire life. I just can't be angry at either one of them, or begrudge them their love, not even for M'John.

I just can't pick a favorite. I was extremely happy for one, and overwhelmingly sad for the other, but I loved them both equally.

[monochromegirlxx]

I see what you're saying, but the same thing sorta happend to John in Season of Death.

[ukscapee]

However, don't forget that at the same time M'john was having a good time in scratch and sniff. the two girls paid to go with D and john!!! he wasn't too cut up then!! having said this though my heart wrenches when he comes to greet aeryn and she basically blanks him in fractures. i do feel his pain. i love the scene with the two john's playin rock, paper, scissors. it made me cry. :cry2:
btw, i love 'the choice' it's so dark.

arta

[Lonewolf89]

My vote goes to Moya-John. But that may just be out of sympathy.

[Krash]

Tough call, because some of the best episodes involved T-John ("Green Eyed Monster", "Relativity", and the death scene of T-John) while on the other hand, I can relate to alot of the stuff going on with M-John ("Dog with 2 Bones")

I voted for T-John...because I think some of the best scenes of Crichton are those with Aeryn. Even if they hit a little too close to home for me.

[angel8]

This is a fascinating discussion. Like others I couldn't vote. I like them both for different reasons. T-John is special because he is with Aeryn and he dies. Those are some of my favorite episodes. (And you can't tell me that M-John wouldn't have left with the possessions and Aeryn if he had the chance. Obviously it is in his personality to do that.)

M-John breaks my heart because he is the one left behind. When she walks past him after he is waiting for her like a little puppy dog, it is so sad. It was hard for Aeryn to look at him and not see T-John and that is what makes it all the worse. But now they are the same, in her mind and in his.

This is the best storyline and the reason I started watching the show. I read about it in some magazines and it broke my heart. With this setup we got to see the romance and still have something to build up to again once T-John died. It was perfect.

[TalynLives]

The thing is I stopped seeing Moya John as "Moya John" pretty soon after the crew reunited. For the 4th season, it was definitely "just John" like it had been before the split.

I voted Talyn John initially, but this discussion has really got me thinking and now I can't choose. I guess I only voted Talyn John because I miss him and we still have Moya John with us. And yes, he was so like a lost puppy and that was one of the defining moments of the series for me. I had only been watching Farscape for a very short time, and if I wasn't hooked already, that redefined my new found love for the show. Just perfect.

[tacklingmonkey]

I like Moya John. I feel like the relationship he formed with D'argo couldnt have been repaired like his with Aeryn. Aeryn and John were in love before he twinned, they might not admit it but they were. However, D'argo really became friends with John after the twinning on Moya.

[DRD 1812]

they are both the same John, now with new experiences. TalynJohn settled down because he got the girl. MoyaJohn got to go on vacation, have Linfer visit, and bond with the crew besides Stark and Rygel more. Aeryn was sort of the odd-woman out on Moya in Season 4.




(( spoiler for season four....WARNING ))



















In Natural Election when John and everyone else was sitting there awaiting for the wormhole to pop up, Aeryn was pacing between the corridor and the door to command. Not with the group.

[woolhoss]

Talyn John.....b/c He was gettin some the whole time. How can you not root for that guy?!?!

[Perseus]

I have to say i like T-John. He has it all, everything he dreamed for the last three years : he and Aeryn are together, he can go back to Earth or everywhere he wants and he's got rid of Harvey. Nevertheless he chooses to lose everything to make the sacrifice of his life for everybody else's sake. In the end he even thinks of a nice message for his twin on Moya. He's a true hero and a gentleman, how not to like him ? ;)

For Aeryn i understand her reaction after T-John death. Actually i think she sees them the same way we see 2 twin brothers. Imagine a woman whose husband has a twin brother, if her husband dies she won't go with the brother, he's another person and that's it. I don't say it's the truth in the show but possibly what's in Aeryn's head.
So when T-John dies, she just can't go with M-John because he's not the guy she loved. He's just someone else.
One year later, after a break away from Moya and after her heart has healed, she'll aknowledge she was wrong, that T-John and M-John are the same and she'll tell him "There's no distinction in my mind any more".

[Latvik]

My wonder is if T-John was the real one, I'm guessing this has been brought up in some previous thread, (but since I just recently watched all 4 seasons in the past month (thank you netflix and blockbuster 2 week trials x4))

because The Ancient comes for him and not the other one, states there is a link b/w their minds from the sharing in the previous seasons episode.

so if thats the conclusion then T-john is probably the better one since he's "real" but then again its sci fi who cares

though I think the mask stark prepared for him should have contained like a memory link of all that T-john had experienced, that would have been cool.

[Alliecat]

I've tried to read this thread without stumbling over too many spoilers, because I've only seen as far as "Icarus Abides", so far. (Yes, I cried.:cry2:) I like them both, I mean, they're both John Crichton... etc etc...
But I was wondering if there's a clue in that episode, about which one was the clone. With Scorpy/Harvey finally out of his head, John says something like, "It's like being in pain your entire life" and now it's gone. Now, having something like that in your head would seem like forever, I'm sure, but how long has it been since he arrived through the wormhole? -- A year or 2, at this point? Which can seem a long time but is really a small fraction of John Crichton's entire life. Why wouldn't he say "being in pain for years" or "being in pain for ages" or something like that, rather than "your entire life". But the twin's "entire life" has been just since the twinning, & he has had Scorpy in his head all that time. So is this a little clue?
Then again, if he's "the same", and has all John's memories of his prior life, then he too should remember a time when there was no Scorpy.
This seemed like an interesting idea till I thought of too many "on the other hands" & confused myself... :tired:
Thoughts anyone?

[Nhoj]

M- John. I lost respect for T-John when, after recieving a blood donation from M-John, that may very well have saved his life, he repaid the other John by taking all of "John Crichtons" stuff. Sneeking it over to Talon while the other John was down on the planet cleaning up T-Johns mess. T-John made sure he was the one who would be with Aeryn on Talon and if Talon's small docking bay had been large enough, he probably would have taken the Farscape I with him too, leaving M-John with nothing. This is also why in the back of my head M-John is the original John, he is the one who is always on Moya with the Farscape I. In Fact the only times John is ever seperated from Moya for any length of time he still has Farscape I. This John is Farscape because this John always has the modual. You only have to remember what happened to those Peacekeepers who got twinned too many times to know that the copying isn't perfect. The fact that T-John is able to screw his other self over without a second thought shows there is a serious flaw in this John. The John we came to know and love wouldn't deliberatly hurt another to get advantage for himself.

[leda0000]

I don't think T-John was purposely screwing over his twin. M-John pretty much admitted he'd have done the same thing. They didn't trust Crais; if T-John had not left with Aeryn when he did, she would have been alone with Crais/Rygel/Stark - all of whom are potentially unreliable for one reason or another. Also, T-John was in a real hurry when he left Moya, I doubt he really thought about splitting up the material goods, because they had always been "his stuff." Also, I don't really think M-John was that upset about the stuff - his main concern was Aeryn. Complaining about the stuff gave him an outlet for the general suckiness of the whole situation. I have to agree with the people who say you can't really choose a favorite, because to me they were both always John.

[AerialPuma]

I think I felt more sympathy for Moya-John. Eventhough the John on Talyn sacrificed his life (and broke Aeryn's heart), he had Aeryn, body and soul. while the M-John suffered on Moya practically alone.

Poor Moya John...:(

[marandken]

There's some interesting comments on this VERY SUBJECT! on the episode of the Scapecast that's being released late tonight. It's our Season 2; episode 20. It's usually available about 11pm CA time.

www.scapecast.org

[crichton_iasa]

There's no option for " like them both equally". In my mind they are both John Crichton and only their experiences in the short time they were part separate them. I have no doubt if the situations were reversed each Crichton would have done exactly the same as they double. :)

[sweetsamurai]

Both Johnns. M and T john. Both are the same but in different circumstances. I wish there were men out there in RL that were like JOhn, since there are a few women who are like Aeryn.

I love M-john since he is hilarious and his realtionship with the crew and I love, love T john for his loveing with Aeryn.

Man, I wish John was real.... It's a pity.. :(

[SaphirJD]

Definitely Talyn-John - flying around with the heavy armed Talyn, Has Aeryn, get rid of Harvey and finally dies a heroic death - ok... the last one is perhaps not so great but all in all it is really a life on the hot road :)

[UnixWarrior]

Both Johnns. M and T john. Both are the same but in different circumstances. I wish there were men out there in RL that were like JOhn, since there are a few women who are like Aeryn.

I love M-john since he is hilarious and his realtionship with the crew and I love, love T john for his loveing with Aeryn.

Man, I wish John was real.... It's a pity.. :(

Don't feel bad, a lot of us guys wish Aeryn was real!!!

[sweetsamurai]

Don't feel bad, a lot of us guys wish Aeryn was real!!!

Ah, whoops, I was typsy when I posted last night.

Boost me into a wormhole onto a strange alien infested Ship and a pulse pistol, grenade launcher thingy, some leathers and I'll be Aeryn for you! lol.

I think my favourite John would be M-JOhn since I love the episode Scratch 'n Sniff. "We're not talking about the window," ROFL.

JOhn in suspenders? Bizarrely, he looked hot! lol.

Ah but the way T-John is with Aeryn is so beautiful. It's a hard one to choose. I'll ponder awhile before I choose, lol.

[shelton]

I haven't seen the season 3 John episodes. "The John" is so associated with Moya, that it almost seems like a betrayel for Aeryn to be off with another one.

Having said that, what everyone else is saying reminds me of the good Kirk/bad Kirk episode in Star Trek. Kirk was twinned coming out of the transporter, the only difference was in the distribution of the personalities. But when reunited, he had the memories of what each one had done.

Maybe the reason it seems like John is getting access to the TJohn memoris is because after TJ dies it sort of heals the two halves.

Like I said though, I haven't actually seen the episodes, and to be honest I don't know that I will.

[Nicola]

I haven't seen the season 3 John episodes. "The Like I said though, I haven't actually seen the episodes, and to be honest I don't know that I will.

They are awesome episodes Shelton. The TalynJohn/MoyaJohn arc is brilliant. And it isn't the slightest bit like the duplication of Kirk in Star Trek.

Twinning storylines are a staple in Science Fiction. But Farscape always takes those old sci fi tropes and gives them a new, fresh spin. Which is exactly what they did this time.

It was brilliant.

[BillFrugge]

Twinning storylines are a staple in Science Fiction. But Farscape always takes those old sci fi tropes and gives them a new, fresh spin. Which is exactly what they did this time.

It was brilliant.

Oh, so true! Just look at Farscape's take on body swap stories! :D

[shelton]

They are awesome episodes Shelton. The TalynJohn/MoyaJohn arc is brilliant. And it isn't the slightest bit like the duplication of Kirk in Star Trek.

Twinning storylines are a staple in Science Fiction. But Farscape always takes those old sci fi tropes and gives them a new, fresh spin. Which is exactly what they did this time.

It was brilliant.

I didn't mean that it was literally like the Kirk episodes. Farscape does a fantastic job of changing up the standard SciFi plot lines. I was thinking more along the lines of MJ and TJ being merged into one John after TJ dies. Someone had mentioned earlier in the thread that it seemed like MJ was beginning to have TJ memories. I already know that these aren't good John/bad John episodes.

Now that I've bought the series and am rewatching it I found out I've seen a lot more of them than I remembered, including the TJ/MJ episodes.

[dadon316]

That is a great question! Hmmm I warmed to talon-john because of his selflessness and heroic death. Please let me go like that! And he uttered my favourite quote ever "Dont worry about me, i've never felt better." Even writing that sends a shiver up my spine, i'd have to watch Cleopatra to get quotes that good!

But Moya-John gets my sympathies. The way he deals with missing the big dance and Aeryn's dismissal is heroic in its own way. And i've always had a soft spot for the characters who are really up against it.

Sooo, i cant decide right now. I need to watch 'Infinite Possibilities' and 'A dog with two bones' again then i might be able to choose.

Thanks for posing the question mate.