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Jen10122
03-17-2004, 05:59 PM
(March 17) - Nancy Sherman Soleimani fears dropping her $1,200-a-month health insurance policy almost as much as she worries about how she'll continue to pay for it.

Don Clingerman says his 62-year-old mother's retiree health coverage is so expensive - $7,900 a year - that he may recommend she drop it, gambling that she'll stay well until she's 65 and can get Medicare.

Hank Sturma, 60, says he's been without a job - and without insurance - for about a year. Sturma says he can't afford the $325 a month it would cost to add him to the policy his wife has through her job at a nursing home.

Rising health care costs are increasingly pressuring the middle class, adding a large and politically influential group to the category of those who fear they may soon have to do without.

There's little hope for relief in the short term. Health spending is expected to rise well above inflation for years to come. Employers are increasingly passing on the additional costs to their insured workers, causing some workers to opt out, saying they can't afford it. And, at some workplaces, employers are dropping coverage altogether.

For those who have to buy their own insurance - or those on the low end of the income scale - insurance has long been hard to afford.

"What this country is actually doing is gradually pricing the lower third of the wage and income distribution out of health care," says Uwe Reinhardt, a Princeton economist.

The success or failure of efforts to control health care costs in the next decade will determine whether those in higher income brackets are similarly shut out, he says.

Good Job, No Insurance

Harvard economist David Cutler estimates that if medical costs rise 5% above inflation for each of the next four years, at least 3 million more U.S. residents will be without coverage.

"We're setting ourselves up for a big implosion of the health care system," says Cutler, author of Your Money or Your Life: Strong Medicine for America's Health Care System.



Many of those will be workers with good jobs and decent pay.

"These newly uninsured Americans will be a different category of citizenry: solidly and continuously employed people who suddenly find themselves totally without a health care safety net because of soaring health care premium costs," say the authors of Epidemic of Care, George Halvorson, the CEO of Kaiser Permanente, and George Isham, medical director for insurer HealthPartners.

Today's average premium for a family insurance policy - $9,086 a year- already represents 21% of the national median household income of $42,409.

If insurance premiums continue to rise about 10% a year, today's average premium could double in just over seven years. Wages, however, are only expected to grow at about 3% a year.

Some analysts say the rising cost of premiums and increasing load of deductibles and other fees will lead more of the currently insured to drop their coverage.

"People will start playing roulette with their health insurance," says Glenn Melnick, professor of health care financing at the University of Southern California. "I can see a middle-class family saying, 'We need to cover Mom and Dad, but we'll let the kids go without and put that money into their college fund.' "

Clingerman, who lives in Reedsville, W.Va., says his family faces such a quandary. His 62-year-old mom is in good health and doesn't take any prescriptions. She is covered under a policy his now-deceased father had through a former employer. But the cost has rapidly risen to nearly $658 a month, which she pays out of her pension of about $800 a month. She will be eligible to enroll in Medicare in three years.

"My suggestion is she drop it," says Clingerman, whose own policy through his job costs him $20 a month. "It's a gamble, but that's what insurance is: a gamble."

Already, 19% of those whose household income is $25,000 to $50,000 are among the nation's 43 million uninsured. The percentage is even higher among those making less than that: 23%. Even those with household incomes exceeding $75,000 saw a rise in the percent uninsured in the last Census Bureau survey.

"It's to the point where something needs to be done," Clingerman says. "In America, we should have a better system than we do."

A survey released in February by the state of South Carolina found that 19% of its population was without health insurance for at least part of the year in 2002-2003. Sixty percent of the uninsured were employed. Of those uninsured whose employers offered coverage, 36% said they did not enroll because they could not afford it, reflecting the growing bite that health costs are taking out of workers' income.

The largest group of South Carolina's uninsured, 44%, earned less than $30,000, but 24% earned $30,000 to $40,000, says Viki Fox, project manager for the survey. Their average age was 33.

"The thing that surprised me the most is that data," Fox says. "Being uninsured is becoming more of a middle-class problem. It's not just a problem for people who are poor or not working."

Insurance Costs Rising

Many employers still pick up a large chunk of health insurance premiums, according to a national survey by the Kaiser Family Foundation. Even so, last year workers paid an average of $2,412 toward their premiums, an amount equal to 5.6% of the median household income.

The percentage of the premiums workers pay is expected to rise. Employers also are requiring workers to pay more for annual deductibles and such out-of-pocket costs as doctor visits and prescription drugs. Those out-of-pocket costs can quickly add up.

According to an economic model developed by the Center for Studying Health System Change, an estimated 5% of individuals would spend more than 10% of their income on out-of-pocket health costs under an insurance policy that requires them to pay a $500 annual deductible and 20% of the health costs after that. Such policies are common among those provided by employers. For those in poor health, 25% would spend more than 10% of income on that type of policy, says the center, a Washington think tank.

A new trend among employers is to require workers to pay more toward their health insurance, with some considering offering policies that come with a $1,000 annual deductible.

Such high-deductible policies also are supported by the Bush administration, which sees them as a way to help make consumers more judicious users of health care. Congress, too, gave a nod of approval in the Medicare bill, allowing consumers with certain high-deductible health insurance policies to open tax-free health savings accounts to be used for medical care.

Hardest hit in the health insurance cost struggle are those whose employers don't offer benefits. Getting coverage can be difficult - and premiums can rise several times a year.

"I used to pay $325 a month, and then, with my new son, $529, and now it's $531," says Narah Anderson of Miami. "My husband used to pay $157 and now will be paying $192. That's $723 a month for two healthy adults in their 30s and a baby. In some parts of this country, that's a mortgage payment. It's ridiculous."

With a household income of more than $50,000, Anderson says they can afford the payments. But, she says, a year ago when their business was not doing well, they considered what essentials they would keep if they had to drop some expenses. The mortgage payment, food and electricity made the list. Health insurance did not.

Harder for Those With Poor Health

Those in poor health have an even harder time.

"We're barely making it, and part of that is because we have to spend so much for health insurance," says Soleimani, 46, who suffers from a variety of health problems, including diabetes, glaucoma and asthma.

The monthly tab for her and her husband rose to $1,200 this year, up from $800 last year. That's a large chunk of the approximately $45,000 in combined income she and her husband earn each year. Soleimani owns the Work Place, an Arlington, Va., consulting firm that assists small businesses. Her husband is an audio-visual technician for a hotel chain. His employer offers insurance, but only for those who work 40 hours a week. During slow periods, he doesn't always get 40 hours a week, so the couple cannot go on his insurance.

Soleimani knows that because of her illnesses, if she drops coverage, she may not find another policy.

"I'm staying where I'm at. I have no choice," she says.

And for the poor, health troubles only compound their financial woes.

Lisa Davis, 36, works full time as a lab tech in a Tennessee factory, but her income and illnesses allow her and her three children to qualify for the state's Medicaid program. Her husband is a self-employed carpenter and does not qualify for the program. He has a painful hernia, but Davis says they can't afford the surgery he needs.

Davis has congestive heart failure and other ailments. Because they live in a rural area, the couple had to drive to Nashville for her treatment. To get to Nashville, they had to buy a newer car because their older one was not reliable.

"We had to purchase a vehicle, and we got behind on our car payments, yet we had to have the car," Davis says.

At one point, she was taking 20 different prescriptions. Now she's down to 10. But she worries because the state's Medicaid program is targeted for cuts, including a possible limit of six prescriptions per enrollee. She credits the program with saving her life.

"Had the same thing happened to my husband, I'm not sure he would be here because he doesn't have insurance," Davis says. "What happens to people who don't get help and think, 'Do I get my medicine this month, or do I eat or do I get my electricity turned off?' "

Sturma, who says he was laid off from his last job about a year ago, says his hope for regaining health coverage is to find a job with benefits somewhere near his small town of Corsicana, Texas, about 50 miles south of Dallas.

Long term, he says the answer is "a national health policy." In the short run, he's just hoping he doesn't get sick.

"I'm a very youthful 60, and so far there have been no problems," he says.


03-17-04 10:01 EST

LadyCrais
03-17-2004, 07:13 PM
Thanks for posting this.

Jen10122
03-17-2004, 07:33 PM
your very welcome. I just thought you all would like to know.

DRD2001
03-18-2004, 05:13 PM
I wish I didn't have to know about stuff like this. But sticking my head in the sand won't help. Every year, our rates go up at work. I consider myself very lucky to have insurance, and even more lucky that my boss helps pay a very large portion of it. But I do wonder and worry about what our insurance situation will be like in another 5 years.

Kurt_eh
03-18-2004, 05:20 PM
Makes me glad I live in a country with a Health Care system... (flawed, though it may be)

Mostly free health care for everyone. Gotta love it!

And it's worth the extra we have to pay in taxes ;)

Paul Cousins
03-18-2004, 05:23 PM
Before people here start stating how we should have socialized health insurance, be aware that people are being killed by socialized health insurance in Canada and the United Kingdom by being forced to wait for a needed surgeries until after they die.

Also, ALL insurance and lawsuits are inflationary factors in prices, meaning why should someone charge $5 per visit, when insurance will pay $1000 per visit. I am NOT making this up.

Just some things to think about.

Kurt_eh
03-18-2004, 05:29 PM
Between you and me, I'd rather risk waiting 18 months for a surgery than know I'll die because I can't afford the insurance...

Nicola
03-18-2004, 05:51 PM
Another Canadian here, who would rather wait for surgery, than not get it at all.

grinner
03-18-2004, 05:56 PM
Is that why my sister-in-law's parents come to the States everytime they need an operation? I wouldn't want socialized medicine.

Harveylives
03-18-2004, 06:06 PM
I wouldn't want to wait. Waiting can only make health problems get worse. I would rather bite the bullet and pay for it myself than wait and have it payed for me. The body is an intricate system and most all of the systems overlap each other. No way am I going to risk more health problems by waiting. I'd take a loan out or pay in payments.

stellar
03-18-2004, 06:11 PM
Maybe we could invade Canada and take their healthcare system. They're just asking for it with all their offering Americans prescription drugs at reasonable prices and the like.

Antrobus
03-18-2004, 06:45 PM
Socialized Medicine may not be the answer, but what the US has now isn't the answer either!

As for waiting, I had to wait 2 months to get a needed hearing test. It took two weeks for my Dr. to get around to dealing with the results and now I have to wait 4 weeks to see and ENT Doc.

.....and they haven't even begun to figure out the problem yet!!

Furthermore, being in the healthcare field I can tell you that things aren't too rosy there either. Poor pay, bad hours and there are no new grads picking up the slack.

Do you know that in the lab that I work in the youngest person is 45!! There is only one hospital in Maine now doing Medical Technologist training for BS students. Last year they graduated 3 - that's right 3 students statewide. AND, they all moved out of state!!

There are NO healthcare professionals out there anymore!! Nursing is probably in the best shape. Lab, Respiratory, and X-ray are facing tough times!

Paul Cousins
03-18-2004, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by Kurt_eh
Between you and me, I'd rather risk waiting 18 months for a surgery than know I'll die because I can't afford the insurance...

That is a straw man agruement because by law in the U.S., they have to treat you if you have a direct life threatening injuries. This is NOT the case in countries with socialized insurance. Or do I need to remind you what France did to their senior citizens last summer.

Kurt_eh
03-18-2004, 07:03 PM
And go bankrupt in the process because your hmo won't cover the treatment...

Or by the same law, does the state pick up the tab?

Paul Cousins
03-18-2004, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by Antrobus
There are NO healthcare professionals out there anymore!! Nursing is probably in the best shape. Lab, Respiratory, and X-ray are facing tough times!

Here are a list of some of the problems in the U.S.:

1. Government regulations, laws and taxations.

2. Patent monoplies on medicines.

3. Lawsuit jacking up insurance rates.

4. Insurance causing inflation of medical prices.

5. Illegal Immigrants bankrupting medical services.

6. Outsourcing of jobs. Amercans are not going to study for jobs that are not going to be offered.

7. The high cost of education. Students having to take morgages to pay for colleges.

9. Teachers' Unions which have gutted education in this country.

Paul Cousins
03-18-2004, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by Kurt_eh
And go bankrupt in the process because your hmo won't cover the treatment...

At least you have the surgery and live. Meanwhile in a country with socialized medicine, you die because you were not allowed to have the surgery in time.

Harveylives
03-18-2004, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by Antrobus
Socialized Medicine may not be the answer, but what the US has now isn't the answer either!

As for waiting, I had to wait 2 months to get a needed hearing test. It took two weeks for my Dr. to get around to dealing with the results and now I have to wait 4 weeks to see and ENT Doc.

.....and they haven't even begun to figure out the problem yet!!


You always have the choice of going somewhere else to get your health taken care of. If you feel that your waiting too long, then go somewhere else. That's the difference between socialized healthcare and the system the US is in. Even if your HMO or other plan won't cover it, the choice is still there for you to go and get it taken care of somewhere else promptly. I personally enjoy the freedom of choice I have here in the US regarding all matters of my life. The more choices the better.

DRD2001
03-18-2004, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by Paul Cousins
Here are a list of some of the problems in the U.S.:

1. Government regulations, laws and taxations.

2. Patent monoplies on medicines.

3. Lawsuit jacking up insurance rates.

4. Insurance causing inflation of medical prices.

5. Illegal Immigrants bankrupting medical services.

6. Outsourcing of jobs. Amercans are not going to study for jobs that are not going to be offered.

7. The high cost of education. Students having to take morgages to pay for colleges.

9. Teachers' Unions which have gutted education in this country. You also forgot to mention the doctors with the overinflated egos and a desire to make cash, not care for people. They treat their patients like they are cattle, ignore what the patient says and then prescribe some nominal treatment, all so that they (the doctors) can make it to their country club in time for one last round of golf.

Paul Cousins
03-18-2004, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by Harveylives
You always have the choice of going somewhere else to get your health taken care of. If you feel that your waiting too long, then go somewhere else. That's the difference between socialized healthcare and the system the US is in. Even if your HMO or other plan won't cover it, the choice is still there for you to go and get it taken care of somewhere else promptly. I personally enjoy the freedom of choice I have here in the US regarding all matters of my life. The more choices the better.

You have watched WAY to many repeats of Chicago Hope.

Most doctors in the U.S. barely break even paying insanily high-priced mal-practice insurance.

Jul
03-18-2004, 09:36 PM
You also forgot to mention the doctors with the overinflated egos and a desire to make cash, not care for people. They treat their patients like they are cattle, ignore what the patient says and then prescribe some nominal treatment, all so that they (the doctors) can make it to their country club in time for one last round of golf. Ummmm, sorry, but there's no money to be made in medicine anymore unless you're in cosmetic surgery...

Patients are treated like cattle because the insurance companies tell physicians that they're responsible for the care of X (usually over 1000) number of patients, and they're paid barely enough to even cover the services and the equipment that it takes to treat them. And the system is made to produce even more work - tons of paperwork, authorizations, etc and people have to be hired to deal with the paperwork and keep up with it to make sure everybody gets the medical treatments they need.

On top of that, like Paul Cousins mentioned, the cost of malpractice insurance is exorbinant... in Chicago, malpractice was costing over $300,000 dollars a year... In Pennsylvania last year, surgeons went on strike because malpractice was so expensive that many doctors had to take out mortgages on their homes to pay for their malpractice insurance... many doctors don't make that much money a year. The private practice physicians are dropping out and working only out of hospitals. In CA, malpractice is better because there's a cap on how much somebody can get in a malpractice settlement.

Let me put it to you this way... your regular internal medicine doctor gets paid about $40 for you to see them by an HMO, and some people get pissy paying their copayments - I know, I sometimes sub in the front office of a medical practice. You pay your plumber $75 just to show up at your house for repairs... How sad is that...

LadyCrais
03-18-2004, 11:59 PM
Let me put it to you this way... your regular internal medicine doctor gets paid about $40 for you to see them by an HMO, and some people get pissy paying their copayments - I know, I sometimes sub in the front office of a medical practice. You pay your plumber $75 just to show up at your house for repairs... How sad is that...

I'm not quite sure where this doctor is who is so underpaid. I haven't had a doctor's appointment with any doctor of any specialty in over ten years that wasn't paid at least $100 for me to walk in the door. Most were paid at least $150 and a fair number were in the $220 range. That is excluding any and all tests, just the physician's fee. I don't think I've ever had more than 15 minutes of their time for those prices, either. And invariably they are overbooked, so besides the fact that they are seeing roughly 4-6 patients an hour at that $100+ a pop, we're also invariably kept waiting because whatever value our time has is completely meaningless to anyone. Some physicians routinely run 1-2 hrs late every single day, and instead of having the common courtesy to notify patients and have them show up realistically within the time frame they will actually be seen in, they insist that you must show up at the time of your appointment or you simply go to the end of the line. So forgive me if I lack a sympathetic ear for the woes of a medical practice with billings of at least $2800 a day per doctor, though realistically probably between $5000-10,000, if not more.

Paul Cousins
03-19-2004, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by LadyCrais
I'm not quite sure where this doctor is who is so underpaid. I haven't had a doctor's appointment with any doctor of any specialty in over ten years that wasn't paid at least $100 for me to walk in the door. Most were paid at least $150 and a fair number were in the $220 range. That is excluding any and all tests, just the physician's fee. I don't think I've ever had more than 15 minutes of their time for those prices, either. And invariably they are overbooked, so besides the fact that they are seeing roughly 4-6 patients an hour at that $100+ a pop, we're also invariably kept waiting because whatever value our time has is completely meaningless to anyone. Some physicians routinely run 1-2 hrs late every single day, and instead of having the common courtesy to notify patients and have them show up realistically within the time frame they will actually be seen in, they insist that you must show up at the time of your appointment or you simply go to the end of the line. So forgive me if I lack a sympathetic ear for the woes of a medical practice with billings of at least $2800 a day per doctor, though realistically probably between $5000-10,000, if not more.

Three quarters (sometimes more) of that $2800 a day bill goes DIRECTLY to malpractice insurance, that $2100 for malpractice insurance, $700 for doctors, nurses and the hospital itself.

Jul
03-19-2004, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by Paul Cousins
Three quarters (sometimes more) of that $2800 a day bill goes DIRECTLY to malpractice insurance, that $2100 for malpractice insurance, $700 for doctors, nurses and the hospital itself.

On top of that, take a look at how many staff that physician has to employ just to keep up with all those patients, aside from nurses: think about the following people that a lot of patients don't know about
front office staff (people who make appointments, put people in rooms, answer phones, help with medical records, etc)
the medical billers (who are specially trained to make sure that all insurance claims are submitted properly, with the correct information, before they're submitted to the insurance companies because if they're not submitted appropriately then the doctor can have his license yanked)
the medical coders (more specially trained staff to make sure that anything done to you is specially coded with the appropriate procedure and diagnosis codes)
the authorizations staff (the ones who do all the paperwork between specialists, primary care and HMOs to make sure that HMO patients get the services that are necessary, and who have to spend time harassing the HMOs when procedure requests are denied, which is pretty often)
medical records staff (who have to make sure that every bit of paper with your name on it is appropriately filed away in your chart and filed away among all the other charts all the while maintaining your confidentiality according to HIPPA regulations. They also have to purge files every year so they go to storage if they aren't used and pull medical records for things like worker's comp cases, lawsuits, etc)
office managers who have to run the offices (dealing with office staff, malpractice, credentialing doctors with different hospitals, tracking billing, accounts payable and receivable)

These are the basics on top of having a doctor and a nurse... the larger the group, the more of these staff members you need in different proportions... All these people need their wages and benefits paid ON TOP of the malpractice that needs to be paid for each physician, physician assistant, nurse, etc that needs to be covered by malpractice. On top of that, physicians need to get basic property insurance for their offices as well. This is all assuming the physician you see is in private practice or contracted to an HMO through their own office.

On top of trying to put all this together, think about the physician that has just gotten out of medical school with at least $150,000 in loans for med school, not including possible student loans from being an undergraduate... Some of them are in debt to the tune of $250,000 just getting out of school. and having a malpractice bill that costs more than the cost of your house?? How can any physician have a family and pay normal family expenses when everything else costs so much??

BlackThorn
03-19-2004, 01:44 AM
And the bigwigs at the insurance companies just keep raking it on in.

Jul
03-19-2004, 01:46 AM
yup.. they're the only ones that really make any money...

DRD2001
03-19-2004, 04:29 AM
You are right Jul. I am judging by appearances. When I see the Jags in the physicans parking lot and I hear them talking about living in the most exclusive parts of town and doing golf tournaments, I just assume they all have that lifestyle. Also, just because I have had all my doctors treat me and my friends like dirt, talk to us like we are stupid and ignore our comments, does not mean all doctors are that way. I just wish I could find one here who wasn't. But yes, my comment is definately based on my personal experiences and those of friends, and I should have been more clear about that.

BTW did anyone here read Twich's post? This is the kind of attitude I see all the time.

http://www.savefarscape.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21804

edited to add: Regardless of who or why, what we should be thinking about is possible solutions. Should hospitals be set up like schools, where everyone can go, but if you want private you pay more. However again, are not VA hospitals set up that way already for vets. And if so, I've not heard great stories about VA hospitals either.

Antrobus
03-19-2004, 07:25 AM
You always have the choice of going somewhere else to get your health taken care of. If you feel that your waiting too long, then go somewhere else.

Not really if I don't have the $s. And I'm not likely to since I'm already contributing to my health insurance which would not cover me going somewhere else.

I know a Dr. who put herself though med school after being a nurse. She is FAR from wealthy. The school loans are immense and she is a single woman! She just recently was able to buy a house. Prior to that no bank would touch her and give her a loan!! Add to that the fact that she's the Medical Director at the hospital she works at! I've heard she puts in over 80/week!

So Dr.s fall all over the "wealth" scale

LiLOrion
03-19-2004, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by DRD2001
You are right Jul. I am judging by appearances. When I see the Jags in the physicans parking lot and I hear them talking about living in the most exclusive parts of town and doing golf tournaments, I just assume they all have that lifestyle. Also, just because I have had all my doctors treat me and my friends like dirt, talk to us like we are stupid and ignore our comments, does not mean all doctors are that way. I just wish I could find one here who wasn't. But yes, my comment is definately based on my personal experiences and those of friends, and I should have been more clear about that.



Yeah when you see and hear those things, its kinda hard to be sympathetic when they complain about malpractice insurance and little reimbursement from the insurance companies. But they have a lifestyle to maintain. They could very well be deep in debt just trying to LOOK wealthy.


Its not only cosmetic surgery that does well, but being a doctor who works for lawyers (doing examinations on people who are
hurt or people who are just playing hurt) also pays well too.


And aside from all the higher ups in the insurance company raking in the cash, you can add to that high-ranking pharmaceutical people and medical malpractice lawyers.

fermicat
03-19-2004, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by Kurt_eh
And go bankrupt in the process because your hmo won't cover the treatment...

Or by the same law, does the state pick up the tab?

It is my understanding the rest of us pick up the tab, in the form of higher treatment costs and insurance premiums.

And no, you cannot be denied treatment because of inability to pay..... but you will not get the best treatments available.

DRD2001
03-19-2004, 09:54 AM
So, does anyone have suggestions on how to improve the system?

LiLOrion
03-19-2004, 10:59 AM
Anyone who can do that would get some kinda award I'm sure. :)



Personally I think health insurance should be a way for a patient to pay their doctor...

not a way for the insurance company to make an ungodly amount of money by charging the patient out the butt and paying the doctor next to nothing. The only person getting rich currently is the insurance company higher ups.


And we'll all know when someone is getting close to a good idea regarding reforming the system cause the insurance company higher-ups will be the first to complain if they see their quality of life and huge paychecks about to be jeopardized. :)

grinner
03-19-2004, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by DRD2001
So, does anyone have suggestions on how to improve the system? get rid of Lawyers

fermicat
03-19-2004, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by grinner
get rid of Lawyers

:) Sounds good, but what do you do if your doctor amputates the wrong foot?

Kurt_eh
03-19-2004, 12:21 PM
Kick him with the good one?:kick:

DRD2001
03-19-2004, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by Kurt_eh
Kick him with the good one?:kick: Great, a one legged man in a kicking contest. :lol

grinner
03-19-2004, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by fermicat
:) Sounds good, but what do you do if your doctor amputates the wrong foot? maybe I should qualify that... get rid of Trial Lawyers who only want the 'BIG SCORE' and pervert the Courts to get them. I think that there Should be a limit/cap on malpractice suits. There was a lawsuit a few years ago in Chicago that was over 13 million dollars. The Hospital closed some of its services down because the settlement cost too much money. There are many hospitals that have closed themselves to Trauma because of Malpractice suits. I am sorry to put it this way... but accidents do happen. I also believe that those that have the accident happen to them are entitled to something... but not at the expense/cost of shutting down services.

Harveylives
03-19-2004, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by Antrobus
Not really if I don't have the $s. And I'm not likely to since I'm already contributing to my health insurance which would not cover me going somewhere else.



Hospital and medical bills don't have to be paid in full. They have to accept what you can pay even if it's $5 a month. It will not effect your credit rating, and they can not send it to a collection bureau as long as your paying. I know this, because I actually had to go through this while paying my medical bills.

fermicat
03-19-2004, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by Harveylives
Hospital and medical bills don't have to be paid in full. They have to accept what you can pay even if it's $5 a month. It will not effect your credit rating, and they can not send it to a collection bureau as long as your paying. I know this, because I actually had to go through this while paying my medical bills.

I can verify this from family experience. When my Mom had her hysterectomy, the doctor took our her ovaries "while he was in there, and because of her age". Her insurance refused to pay, calling this an "elective procedure" even though the decision was made by Mom's doctor while she was out of consciousness on anesthetics. She was pretty pissed about it, and pays only $10 per month for the cost (still does as far as I know, and the operation was many years ago). It cannot hurt her credit as long as she faithfully pays something on it, and the $10 per month is affordable.

Antrobus
03-20-2004, 07:25 AM
Hospital and medical bills don't have to be paid in full. They have to accept what you can pay even if it's $5 a month. It will not effect your credit rating, and they can not send it to a collection bureau as long as your paying. I know this, because I actually had to go through this while paying my medical bills.

That may be true for hospitals, but not usually for Dr's office visits - especially specialists. They often now ask for the money upfront. Payment plans are not usually offered.

Go to a dentist and see if you can get away with paying $10/ month for a crown!! If you can you've got a very generous dentist.

LadyCrais
03-20-2004, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by Antrobus
That may be true for hospitals, but not usually for Dr's office visits - especially specialists. They often now ask for the money upfront. Payment plans are not usually offered.

Go to a dentist and see if you can get away with paying $10/ month for a crown!! If you can you've got a very generous dentist.

How true, how true! I just spent a year paying $130 a month to pay for one crown. That was not the dentist's generosity. They told me about and arranged for me to have credit with a company that goes by Care Credit, billed as GE Capitol Cons. I can charge anything health related (opthamologist, dentist, etc.) and get one year interest free to pay it off. It's a good service, albeit anything as simple as one crown (and I need three more) totally blows the budget for a year. And of course, if you don't pay it off in that one year, then you get to pay the usual usary rates of 18-22%.

BritAngie
03-20-2004, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by Paul Cousins
At least you have the surgery and live. Meanwhile in a country with socialized medicine, you die because you were not allowed to have the surgery in time.

This is not completely true-in the UK if you don't want to wait you can get private healthcare instead. You can buy healthcare policies over here if you want and they don't cost the earth. It's a matter of choice.

P.S. I work for the NHS-we are in the "business" to save lives not make money.

Nicola
03-20-2004, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by BritAngie
This is not completely true-in the UK if you don't want to wait you can get private healthcare instead. You can buy healthcare policies over here if you want and they don't cost the earth. It's a matter of choice.

P.S. I work for the NHS-we are in the "business" to save lives not make money.

Indeed, the situation is the same in Canada. If you have the money, you can pay for your treatment anywhere you want.

And if you need something done on an emergency basis it is done... elective surgery on the other hand - takes longer.

With all its faults (and they are legion) you won't find many Canadians willing to give up Universal Health Care. As various politicians have found out; from the preceived threat of Nafta to the Canadian Health Care system, to the recent brouhaha surrounding the suggestion of implementing two-tier health care.

Kurt_eh
03-20-2004, 11:53 AM
Here's a scenerio.

My grandmother passed away from Breast Cancer.
All three of her daughters have had breast cancer, and only one of my aunts survived. My mom and her older sister both passed away from it.

My sister participated in a study at the local University, and has tested positive for 'the gene.'

I'd challenge anyone to show me an HMO that would cover her with that sort of "risk factor." Or at least not at a rate they could afford on their salaries.

She's an EMT, and her husband just finished a technical program, upgrading from EMT to Paramedic. EMT's and Paramedics don't "rake in the moolah." Ironic that someone in the medical field wouldn't be able to afford health care.

Thank you, but give me Canada's system any day.

Then again, I will admit that my limited knowledge on the US system comes from 60 minutes/dateline/etc. and films like John Q...

Harveylives
03-20-2004, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by Antrobus
That may be true for hospitals, but not usually for Dr's office visits - especially specialists. They often now ask for the money upfront. Payment plans are not usually offered.

Go to a dentist and see if you can get away with paying $10/ month for a crown!! If you can you've got a very generous dentist.

That is also not true, at least here in PA. Any specialist, Doctors office, and dentist's have to take what you can give.

MJS
03-20-2004, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by BritAngie
This is not completely true-in the UK if you don't want to wait you can get private healthcare instead. You can buy healthcare policies over here if you want and they don't cost the earth. It's a matter of choice.


That's how things are here, too. But we are taxed to oblivion to keep things working. Somehow I like to pay my taxes :)

Jul
03-20-2004, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by Antrobus
That may be true for hospitals, but not usually for Dr's office visits - especially specialists. They often now ask for the money upfront. Payment plans are not usually offered.

For people that are cash patients, physicians usually take a discount and I know that many MDs in my area do payment plans...

Paul Cousins
03-20-2004, 09:12 PM
BritAngie, Nicola, most people cannot afford the inflated prices because of the high taxation in most countries. Governments are driving all of us into the poor house.