I missed something

[gellad]

Quick Question

On the last show the Scarens were going through the wormhole to earth. Why wouldn't they turn to goo? I thought JC was the only guy who could navigate them safely?

[janey_13]

Good question, I don't know :confused:

[FieryHands]

Only prowler pilots turned to goo. The other Moyans flew through wormholes in Lo'la and were perfectly fine, Moya herself has gone through and no one melted. Its the prowlers that aren't safe, possibly because of faulty shielding or what they're made out of. Its never been explained why.

[Doc Holiday]

What is that? Goo!? I don't put no electric on my face.

[PK2003]

Possible Spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!







I believe there was an episode where Crichton had damaged his module and met up on a planet with "Furlow" who would do the repairs. She deduces that he has some interest in wormholes. Keeps asking Crichton if he wants to sell the module or trade it for a Prowler. I even think he sort of fesses up about wormholes to Furlow in order to get his module back as she is holding it "hostage" for payment.

Anyway a think in a later episode, it is learned that the Scarrans either have Furlow on the payroll or something like that. So they may have garnered some technology from her to make it possible for them to travel in wormholes.
Someone out there keep me honset with this and maybe even cite the episodes!

[FieryHands]

I haven't seen Till the Blood Runs Clear in a long while, but I recall John had to trade wormhole data to pay for Furlow's services. He didn't know Furlow's connections with the Scarrens until Infinite Possibilites and the Scarrens/Charrids never gained access to the wormhole data because John made their dreadnaught go kaboom. Furlow designed a device that allowed a charrid to fly safely through a wormhole in the module copy, but I think (not sure) the point was to make the flight stable through a proto-wormhole, not a fully formed wormhole.

Scarrens don't know anything about wormholes. They're only interested because the PKs are and have been boasting about big powerful weapons they don't have.

[Mike@Pilots Chamber]

Hmm... this is a puzzling question. Why is it so far, only Prowler pilots turn to goo? Species doesn't matter - Linfur turned to goo as well (Incubator).

Let's see... so far we've got -

John Crichton - survived in just a space suit (Unrealized Realities)

Farscape 1 - John, Rygel and Scorpius have been through wormholes in it, with no adverse affects. Also, a Charrid has gone through, and apparently Furlow.

Lo'laa - D'Argo, Rygel, Aeryn, Noranti, Chiana travelled through, with no effects.

Moya - Moya seems to be able to travel through, but not for a sustained period. It seems long exposure to wormholes does start to rip her apart, perhaps the same effect that turns Prowler pilots to goo.

Pathfinder vessel - since the vessel was regaining dimensionality at the time, it doesn't seem to matter. But when fused with Moya, the vessel didn't exhibit any signs of wormhole stress, and all aboard were not affected.

Prowlers - all who go through turn to goo. Linfur managed to fix some of the shielding apparently, but this only delayed it.

Scarren Striker - everyone aboard was seemingly fine, until the wormhole closed up on them.

Transport pod - fine.

As such, a question needs to be asked. When do the people inside turn to goo? The Prowlers manage to get back to the Command Carrier somehow - maybe they turn to goo as they leave, and manage to pilot the ship back? As such, we don't know if the Scarrens in the Striker would turn to goo, as they never came out the other side.

Also, how did John manage to survive without any form of shield? Perhaps Einstein made the wormhole stable without any of the fluctuations (rantax flux, I think it was referred to as) in order to safely capture any vessel that went through. After all, there was no sign of damage on Moya due to the wormhole.

So it seems to come down to shielding, or possibly biologics. Or maybe even shapes and mass. Seems Prowlers don't have the correct shielding. We don't know about the Scarren Strikers. John said he has an idea why Farscape 1 survives and Prowlers don't (Terra Firma) but so far its either the shape, or the shielding. Furlow's Farscape module needed some sort of device, maybe because she can't find the same alloy that Farscape 1 was made of (being from Earth and all). Moya began to slowly succumb to possible liquification, but she is much larger and her shape was curved, like Farscape 1. Also, she would be the first to succumb, and all those inside are in a controlled environment. When enough of her succumbed to compromise the direct environment, then those inside would succumb. The transport pod is an odd fusion of metal and biologics, and would act the same way. Transport pods have only made short trips through wormholes. And we know Lo'laa has a forcefield and has only travelled through shortly.

I think I've asked more questions than I've attempted to answer...

[Kaiwaz]

There's more problems with it than just that they shouldn't be able to survive entering a wormhole: They also shouldn't know WHEN THE WORMHOLE WOULD OPEN! This should have been a huge factor on Crichton & company's side... it just "coincidentally" happens that when the Scarrens arrive the wormhole opens.


Basically bad timing LESSENS the entire impact of Crichton having "wormhole knowledge", since apparently only Prowlers can't go through a wormhole. Hey, why not take a marauder instead?!

What exactly "wormhole knowledge" is seems to change a lot too. First it was the equations to create a wormhole, then it was to predict a wormhole, then it was to make an engine that will get you through a wormhole, then it's to make a big fiery ball of destruction that destroys ships, then it's the ability to send signals through time and space, and finally it's the ability to do something it seems everyone else can do just fine.

Incidentally: I do believe the reason that Lo'la could navigate the wormhole was because they had Crichton's signal on the other side. Oh, and when Aeryn drives the ship through: where's D'Argo's DNA?!

The whole show has LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of plot holes. BUT it stays enjoyable despite that.

[jcrocker8]

I forget how did the worm hole blow up the Command Carrier and what episode was it?

[Kaiwaz]

A wormhole didn't blow up a command carrier, Talyn did. The wormhole blew up the Scarren Dreadnaught (same thing, 'cept Scarrens instead of PKs).

It blew up the Dreadnaught by spinning around in front of a wormhole placed in front of the sun and making fire shoot out of it (?)

[Mike@Pilots Chamber]

I believe the Dreadnaught was destroyed by the engine on Furlow's Farscape module having the ability to bend or distort wormholes. Therefore, they can be targeted, perhaps.

Thus, John was able to target the other end of the wormhole at a small sun, or a part of a sun, or maybe just a convenient flaming bit of rock. How John managed to target it at this in the infinite void known as space is something we'll perhaps never know.

This checks in with Stark saying, just as the Dreadnaught is about to be destroyed, something about the wormhole "touching the star".

[Perfect_Tommy]

I think it all comes down to the fact that they needed to get people through the wormholes to get the plot to where they wanted ;)

[the_cadpig]

Originally posted by Mike@Pilot's_Chamber
I believe the Dreadnaught was destroyed by the engine on Furlow's Farscape module having the ability to bend or distort wormholes. Therefore, they can be targeted, perhaps.

Yes, and the displacement engine was built by John (not Furlow) from the knowledge that the Ancient (Jack) had placed then unlocked inside his brain. And the engine was subsequently destroyed so that nobody else could replicate it.

Oh, and about the Scarrans arriving just as the wormhole was opening... I was always under the impression that the wormhole remained open when John and Aeryn passed through. D'Argo and the others seemed to be waiting just on the cusp of it when the Scarrans showed up and dived in. I'll have to look at that again.

As for the original topic, I have no idea. But I always assumed prowler pilots turned to goo because the prowler was deficient in some way. As for a marauder, well... I'd also assumed that the materials used to build a prowler would be the same used to build a maurader, since the architects of both craft are the PK's. I can't see how the outcome of sending a marauder through would be any different. But since we never saw one go through... who's to say?

[CeRell]

My guess is shape. Somehow the prowler design gets caught and catapulted in a never ending spin.

[FieryHands]

Its a good thing Aeryn's never flown her prowler near a wormhole...

[Kaiwaz]

Honestly, life explaining Farscape gets easier once you accept that S4 doesn't follow much in the way of LOGIC. Instead, it tries to build on a sense of "thrills and excitement", which it does admirably.

But the wormhole in BT is the same one as in Kansas & Terra Firma. Which we were already told was unstable. And I don't recall ANY wormholes that just sat open all the time in the history of Farscape. Even the one Scorpy was working with in S3 was not ALWAYS open.

I'd like to see the Scarrens come out the other side and end up in weirdo land (where everyone was all mishmashed). Or would that be weirder weirdo land?

Bottom line (and I've said this since the ep aired): Bad Timing is entirely built on a faulty premise. The logic is NOT firm for what happens throughout the episode, but as someone else said it's a NECESSARY turn of events to get the story where the authors wanted it. It is not internally consistent with the rest of Farscape.

Don't make stuff up and say "well, I figure it should because...", but I would LOVE it if somebody could show me ANY other point in Farscape where:
-A Scarren could successfully travel through a wormhole
-A Wormhole stayed open all the time
-Somebody could use a Wormhole to go EXACTLY where they wanted to go (in both Kansas and Terra Firma characters used signals being transmitted from others to find their way... don't give me that Lo'la's navigation crap. Are you telling me she memorized the wormhole paths?!)
-Pilot could see a wormhole about to open (if so, why didn't he know it was opening up in Natural Election?)
-Since when does Moya enjoy landing in atmosphere, in water?! (yes, I know she swept through in Liars, Guns & Money, but I recall in I ET the idea of a leviathan landing was subject to a LOT of speculation).


Again, I'm not looking for fanlogic... I'm looking for examples from the actual show.

[the_cadpig]

I watched BT again last night and I have to say that I was wrong about the wormhole staying open. It did close after John and Aeryn went through and reopen as the Scarrans were approaching. Now "I figure it should because..." :) Well, John does make reference to the fact that the opening and closing of the wormhole is cyclical. However, the wormhole opening at that most opportune moment is awfully convenient, I must admit.

No, no Scarran has been shown to successfully navigate a wormhole. They didn't successfully navigate the one in BT, either. And we can speculate but we can't assume that they would have made it through had John not collapsed the wormhole on them, or that things would have been all hunky-dory for them if they had made it.

As for someone using a wormhole to get exactly where they wanted to go. Well, John has. In Prayer, he travelled the wormhole to get to Bizarro Moya. Granted, he jumped on the feeder road a bit early, but he did make it.

Good point about Pilot not sensing the wormhole in NE. But, then I felt they misused Pilot in several places in S4 for the sake of plot convenience. Like having him fail to detect the intruders on Moya in WSS:La Bomba so they could nab Chiana.

And Moya making a landing in I,ET WAS subject to speculation but now we have been shown and the characters know that it can be done. And we know that Noranti's treatment methods are somewhat unorthodox, anyway. For all we know, she was the one who suggested it and poor Moya was too bruised and abused to give a frell. (Yes, I know this is speculation)

And I am not disagreeing here that BT may have been built on a faulty premise. I just don't find that some of the logic nitpicks here are totally inconsistant with what has been set up before.

But, the truth is, Farscape has always left a lot of room for speculation and "fanlogic" in how they get from point A to point B. Filling in all the little details is never what it's been about. Telling a good yarn... is.

And I know we can all agree on that :D

~cp

[marandken]

I thought that the melting wormholes were artificially generated and that 'naturally occurring' wormholes were OK.
The whole point of the PK weapon is that they could point wormholes at things and make bad stuff happen. I figured they (the WH) had to be artificially conjured up.

John doesn't turn to goo because he can tap into the naturally occurring WH.

(I keep reading this post and can't get it to make any sense or grammer so I hope I'm saying what I think).:confused:

Of course, I could be missing something else, too.

[gill_za]

Originally posted by marandken
I thought that the melting wormholes were artificially generated and that 'naturally occurring' wormholes were OK.
The whole point of the PK weapon is that they could point wormholes at things and make bad stuff happen. I figured they (the WH) had to be artificially conjured up.


Well actually it was said that passing through the protowormhole turns you into goo. If one passes through the stable wormhole it is ok. Command carrier in Into the Lion's Den, Part 1-2 was placed near the protowormhole and the entire ship was used as a stabilizer, it kept the wormhole open, and it did seem to stabilize it. So there is definitely something wrong with PK's prowlers that makes pilots turn to goo. Or maybe it did not stabilize it and PK were just not very lucky cuz kept messing with unstable wormhole :). Well in any case Furlow's device could help travel through any wormhole without nausea, vomiting and other side effects.

[DamonAO]

I agree with gill_za. There is definitely allusion to the fact that Stable wormholes are different than proto wormholes. That wormhole to earth is pretty much open all the time, at least that is what Jack Crichton said. Also, John states that the command carrier is being used as a giant repeater or amplifier to manipulate the appearance of a wormhole. This must mean that the wormhole the PK's are working with is an unstable Proto-womhole they are forcing the wormhole to stay open. Of course, one can reason through almost anything when your dealing with make believe science and the best answer may in fact be that consistency on this issue has suffered for plot development needs. Again, make believe folks.

[marandken]

OK... sorry I'm so dense on this. Do you mean the "Proto" means artificially generated like I thought?

[DamonAO]

I think it's literal meaning is "First Formed" like "Prototype" as the first version of something or "Protoman" as Early-man. In this case it would be the reverse of an established wormhole, or one that remains fixed.