I, ET glitches [1.02 discussion]

[gliadrachan]

If the planet is isolated and doesn't have space technology or know about aliens, how do they understand JC? Did they independently find translater microbes?

Also, the female astronomer, in a conversation with the local military, says that a previous suspected alien sighting turned out to have "terrestrial" origins. Is their language derived from Latin?

[TheBladeRoden]

She also calls her son a 9 year old instead of a 9 cycle old.

[Selena]

Relax guys, just enjoy it, don't analyze it to death.

Remember that as alien as they seem to be, :critter: Rockne, DK, Ricky Manning et al (who wrote the scripts) are humans.

[sny]

If the planet is isolated and doesn't have space technology or know about aliens, how do they understand JC? Did they independently find translater microbes?

Also, the female astronomer, in a conversation with the local military, says that a previous suspected alien sighting turned out to have "terrestrial" origins. Is their language derived from Latin?

Going back to the early episodes of Farscape, possibly the premiere, recall that the Moya crew expresses a lot of surprise that Crichton doesn't have translator microbes and needs to have them injected. They further comment, best I recall, that most people/species are born with them these days. I assumed, rightly or wrongly, that this planet is one of those places where the natives are routinely born with colonies of translator microbes already in place and do not need them injected. I also assumed that they were once not so isolated. Possibly they have a history that is lost to them when they were in contact with, say, the PK empire, and collectively, they have forgotten this history.

Also recall that we are sort of "hearing" things from John's point of view, as the audience. We hear things as the translator microbes "interpret" them for him. As he is still unfamiliar with things like "cycles" at that point, I figured it would make more sense for him to understand the term as "year". I suspect the translator microbes may take into account what terms would be "familiar" to the hearer.

Well, that, and it's a necessary plot point that translator microbes must be very versatile and pretty universal. Otherwise, all the alien dialogue would be weird gobbledygook, no one could interact with "foreign" species, and there would have to be subtitles. She's not speaking English, she just appears to be from our point of view, so our heads don't explode. Or at least all that seemed like a decent enough explanation to me at the time.

[blue]

sny-a lovely new interpretation, er rationalization? I like it a lot. The translator microbe problem always seemed like a glaring plot goof to many, I like the idea that they were once not so isolated but have forgotten the ancient history. Another possibility is that since they are in the general "area" settled by many species with the microbes, that the microbes came to their planet, either in meteorites, or in unknown visitors like our friends, or just raining down from space, and got into the population a long time before just because of proximity.

[gliadrachan]

I still have to believe that the simplest explanation makes more sense. The writers of this episode weren't keeping as close an eye on continuity as they were in later episodes and simply forgot about the microbes issue. The microbes are very necessary, but I think this was an "Oops".

Complicated explanations such as "John just happened to be in an area were microbes were naturally occuring" seem to be more of a reach. Or a rationalization, as blue said.

[sny]

http://www.scifi.com/farscape/notes/translator.html

There's the reference in the journey logs. Why would it be any harder to believe that the residents of the planet in I, E.T. also have multiple languages and employ translator microbes in order to understand each other? We've got one species and how many hundred languages here on earth? Wouldn't it be nice if we could all understand one another (at least minimally)?

Actually, this is another pretty good theory, and one I hadn't considered from this angle.

"Here’s the big problem. Crichton’s not Sebacean and TM weren’t exactly tested on humans. That it works on him, we know, but what if there are unexpected side effects? Say, for instance, that it has reacted with his unique body chemisty, mutating into an airborne version. This would explain how the pre-space flight Deneans in episode I, E.T., and the tribe in Jeremiah Crichton (who presumably couldn’t inoculate their children) could understand him.

One might wonder why they wouldn’t come up with an airborne version in the first place. No icky needles and all that. It was likely a compromise between the species. Would you want the Peacekeepers or Nebari mucking about with an airborne contagion? I shudder to think what would happen if anyone figures out that Crichton is a new Typhoid Mary, however beneficial."

From http://www.farscapeweekly.com/science.htm

It's also equally likely that some other space-going species brought an airborne strain to the planet at some point when they visited in secret. Heck, some people buy that aliens have visited this planet in secret. What's so hard to buy about them being able to do so elsewhere? If I'm willing to suspend my disbelief enough to allow for microbes that can translate languages, why would I rule out the possibility that injected or contagious TMs are common on a planet that is inhabited by a pre-space flight race? It's kind of like straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel. (If the hints about the human-like species being interconnected at some point in the past turn out to be true, then it's even less difficult to swallow that the microbes could translate most of the languages/words we've encountered so far. They would have something of a communal memory of the root languages.)

Or alternately, if Hoshi can start to unravel a completely alien language in about fifteen minutes on Enterprise, why bother questioning what a massive group of microscopic germs can do when they put their minds together? Actually, one of the things I like so much better about Farscape is that sometimes, they leave you to come up with your own explanation of the science/tech behind things. No boring, long-winded technical explanations like you tend to get on Star Trek shows. Given enough wiggle room, I figure you can come up with dozens of equally likely scenarios that explain things. If Crichton really were "infecting" all alien species with airborne TMs, that would certainly take care of most possible language barriers in short order, and in one very neat package. When convenient to the story, individuals or races could be immune to the airborne strain. It's at least as sensible to me as Hoshi's "l33t language skillz" and her "sooper dooper" Universal Translator.

The writers may not have pictured it that way, but they do seem to have the sense not to write themselves into corners with a lot of onscreen explanations of how things work. Less chance of contradicting yourself, that way. I think I prefer the cut to the chase "Hey, it works!" approach Farscape typically has. I prefer character development over a fifteen minute explanation of how, exactly, Moya acheives starburst. Those things are interesting, but they are window dressing. Fun to ponder, but not necessary to my enjoyment of the series. Every sci-fi show has to have the "magical solution" to how we all understand the aliens. On Enterprise, it's the UT. On Farscape, it's the TMs. It gets set up early in the series, and you just accept that it always works, except in cases where it makes for a more interesting story if it doesn't, because nothing's perfect. (Like the Picard "speaking in mythology" episode of TNG...) That's kind of how these things go in scifi.

[blue]

"GILINA: This should bypass the grid and hooks us directly with main control.

CHIANA: Spare me the technobabble, gadget girl. Let's just get on with it."
-Nerve

That's the Farscape version of "science." No technobabble, just getting on with it.

Farscape isn't really scifi--its fantasy in a scifi cloak. There are many elements that have more in common with magic, like Maldus, who is a magician, or other highly unlikely things--a being who lives in a sun and traps souls? beings who can be dispersed and come back together? beings who can "change their center of gravity" and walk on the ceiling? er...huh, what? How would one lead to the other? The question of how translator microbes might have ended up in the people on that planet is dwarfed by the question of how translator microbes would WORK AT ALL--and not work all the time, either--notice Scarran is sometimes not translated by the microbes, but Earth languages are, and Sizuki's race can't tolerate the microbes--

To me, one of Farscape's pleasures is how much internal consistency there IS, given the total far out premises of the story, but the real pleasure is always the emotional one--the intense interpersonal stories playing out in the fantastical backdrop.

So let's just go with it--its such a great ride.

[sny]

blue, your post just reminded me of one of my favorite exchanges in the show. The one in "I Shrink, Therefore I Am", where Sikozu keeps saying it's scientifically impossible that they were shrunk down, but still capable of functioning.

Rygel shoots back that it doesn't matter if it's possible or not, it had obviously happened, so they might as well deal with it and quit worrying about whether it was possible. It was one of the great "wise Rygel" moments of the series, on par with his romantic advice to John.

And it's a nod to the fact that even with all our scientific knowledge, there are still a lot of things we don't understand, but we know them to be true. Like light acting like waves and particles, or bumblebees seemingly violating the laws of aerodynamics, the lack of explanation for how some things manage to migrate in the same patterns year after year, and such. I tend to think of science, even in real life, but particularly in fantasy/fiction, like the "rules" of the English language. It often seems the rules exist only to be violated by the numerous exceptions. There would be no mystery to life if everything followed the rules.

Sikozu's abilities were a hoot, weren't they? Chop her limbs off, stick her to the ceiling, teach her a language in three minutes flat, she's puts those dolls you can give real haircuts to shame. I once joked that Sikozu could evidently shift her center of gravity to somewhere outside her body, but it's still attached to her, somehow, by an invisible axis. And a fulcrum. Like just above her head, or something. That, or it's one of those things that "just don't translate" to John... I haven't really tried to figure out the walking up walls thing. I'm afraid my head would 'splode on that one. I think I'll just stick with the idea that it's her sooper dooper moonboots that do the job, not her. Or summat.

[Namrat]

Farscape isn't really scifi--its fantasy in a scifi cloak. There are many elements that have more in common with magic, like Maldus, who is a magician . . . To me, one of Farscape's pleasures is how much internal consistency there IS, given the total far out premises of the story, but the real pleasure is always the emotional one--the intense interpersonal stories playing out in the fantastical backdrop. So let's just go with it--its such a great ride.

Rygel shoots back that it doesn't matter if it's possible or not, it had obviously happened, so they might as well deal with it and quit worrying about whether it was possible. It was one of the great "wise Rygel" moments of the series, on par with his romantic advice to John.

I agree . . . while it may be fun to talk about, I never let technobabble get in the way of my enjoyment of Farscape . . . (it wasn't the reason I came to love Farscape . . . so it won't be the reason on why I would hate it) . . .

(I leave the technostuff to the Trekkies ;) )

[Pip's Play Thing]

"GILINA: This should bypass the grid and hooks us directly with main control.

CHIANA: Spare me the technobabble, gadget girl. Let's just get on with it."
-Nerve

That's the Farscape version of "science." No technobabble, just getting on with it.

Farscape isn't really scifi--its fantasy in a scifi cloak. There are many elements that have more in common with magic, like Maldus, who is a magician, or other highly unlikely things--a being who lives in a sun and traps souls? beings who can be dispersed and come back together? beings who can "change their center of gravity" and walk on the ceiling? er...huh, what? How would one lead to the other? The question of how translator microbes might have ended up in the people on that planet is dwarfed by the question of how translator microbes would WORK AT ALL--and not work all the time, either--notice Scarran is sometimes not translated by the microbes, but Earth languages are, and Sizuki's race can't tolerate the microbes--

To me, one of Farscape's pleasures is how much internal consistency there IS, given the total far out premises of the story, but the real pleasure is always the emotional one--the intense interpersonal stories playing out in the fantastical backdrop.

So let's just go with it--its such a great ride.

You are correct: "...it's fantasy in a sci fi coat." Or to put it in proper terms, it's Science Fantasy, a well known and long written genre by writers combining Science Fiction and Fantasy into one. And it's a lot easier to say, too. ;)

[soyarma]

There are a few issues on I, ET that can be simply chalked up to it being episode number 2 (though it was originally aired in #8 spot - interesting eh?).

Being the troopers we are we will find our own explanations for what is up. I don't think the airborne MTs would be a feasible explanation since didn't Sik say they would harm her were she to get them?

I also recall at some point John finds some artifact with Egyptian hyroglyphics on it. I believe it was from the monks at the begining of S4 and those monks are also acredited with making the MTs arent they?

Now since the MT's need to have languages 'loaded' into them as D'Argo mentions at one point when they don't translate some words from ancient Luxan we must assume that whoever made the MTs actually got at least some ancient root languages from earth, otherwise the Moyans would not understand John. With this in mind the fact that a small out of the way planet which is still actually in PK space (they don't leave for the Uncharted Territories till after that EP if memory serves) has MTs is really not that hard to believe.

Also, Rygel said 'I cant understand why you werent injected at birth' which would mean they aren't passed down naturally.

A final pontification. All SciFi is actually Fantasy, It just uses science to explain the 'magic'.

[Namrat]

I was just watching the commentary on "Premiere" last night and one thing Ben said that reminded me of this thread (and alot of other similar threads) . . . during the scene when Rygel farted helium, Ben commented that he was on some of the internet sites in which there was a huge debate on whether it was even possible that a living being could fart helium . . . Ben chuckled at this notion and commented that it was funny that some viewers just couldn't "accept" the notion that Rygel could fart helium, but could accept the other concepts (some of which are far more farfetced) of Farscape (he mentioned Moya's starbursting) . . . but I would also add (as Blue mentioned) Maldus' magic, etc . . . it seemed to me that if one try to prove (with concrete science) everything that happens in Farscape, he/she (IMO) would be at it for a very long time and in the end would be quite disappointed . . . Farscape just isn't that kind of show . . .

P.S. it was interesting to learn that Ben does visit certain internet sites devoted to Farscape . . .

[Owlman]

I liked the part in Coup by Clam:

Evil Scientist going into a long, Star Trek like technobable rant

JC: "Cut the technobable or I'll cut your tonge out!"

[shinsei na]

its in the water. :)

[wheres my ice cream!]

The only glitch i can think is at the beginning of the episode when rygel is messing around with a control panel you can catch a glimpse of a puppeter