This has been bothering me for a while

[Athlantis]

Hey guys, I don't know if this has been asked before, if it has, so so sorry!!!
Anyway,
there's two things that has been bothering me for a while now, One thing is In A perfect Murder when the guys with the white hair told Crichton Aeryn was temperamental or something(is that even a word???...anyway) he told him he should have met her mother. Moya's Crichton knew about Xhlax at all??? didn't Crais show the vid to Aeryn on board Talyn???
And the other question is in John Quixote, who was the one who made the game??? cause in the ep it says that it was Stark, but I find it a little out of Character, not to mention the fact that by that time he could have already been captured by the scarrans, well not captured captured cause supposely he used to work for them, I know the the robot (I don't know how to spell the actual word so) and everything, but still, who the hell made that game???? was it Stak, the scarrans, Maldis???
What do you guys think?

[Jeff O'Connor]

Oh, man... I never caught that line in A Prefect Murder. That's sort've saddening... wow, very keen of you! That's an incredibly good point. Was there some part in the story where Moya-John got all the memories of Talyn-John? I don't remember that.

As for the game... I think it's anyone's guess. I like to think Maldis is gone because he hasn't shown up again - dead, finito. Maybe the Scarrans... or maybe it was the Biloid Stark? Hmm.

[Ouroboros]

Aeryn told him.

[Jeff O'Connor]

Oh, okay, she did... Ouroboros, when did she tell him? I guess I did miss that part, and now I'm curious as frell.

[Athlantis]

Me too, when did she tell him??

[mjwillia]

I don't remember Aeryn ever telling Moya-John about her mom -- Awesome Catch on that one!!!

Although, I personally would like to see Maldis come back every now and again; I think the real Stark must have made the game. I would agree that it doesn't really "fit" Starks personality to have been the one to make the game. It would have been more like Maldis to have made the game. However, only Stark new all of John's memories (or, at least that is what I presume since he helped Talyn-John "cross over" and carried T-John's message via his mask to Moya-John) about fairy tales and Don Quote' to have made the game in the first place... Unless, is it possible that when John was in the aura chair could Scorpius have recorded and saved that info? Could Scorpius have made the game as a trap? Wasn't Scorpius in the game trying to get the wormhole formula? Is that possible?

[Athlantis]

Wow, I never thought Scorpius was the one who did it mjwillia. but now that you mention it, it really smells kile a peacekeeper thing, though Scorpius was a minion, so I'm not sure if he was the one who did it, but Grayza deffiniyely would, but again, how did she know about Zhan for example, cause when Scorpius put John on the Chair was long before that. Still, when John told Aeryn game she got her back or something, she acted stood still as she didn't understand what he meant by that, so in the game it seems, IMO, that it wasn't aware of Aeryn leaving.
Anyway, if Stark was the evil, the how come when he returned to Moya, La Bomba nobody mention it?

BTW Jeff O'Connor and mjwillia thanks for the words! :D But honestly, I just watched both episodes like wo days ago, even though Stark question has been bothering for a long time, I just realized about John knowing about Aeryn's mother.

Anyway, thank's for the guesses, though I'm still counfused :rolleyes:

[mjwillia]

Aw - Man! Athlantis! I didn't think of Grayza! However, you are right about how would she know about Zhan dying. Does anyone remember if Zhan, Moya and her crew came into contact with any Peacekeepers before Zhan died?

Is it possible that Stark (the real Stark) worked with Scorpy to make the game inorder to get his revenge on John?

I am will to bet that the Mini refers back to this episode!

[scrape_medic]

Moya's Crichton knew about Xhlax at all??? didn't Crais show the vid to Aeryn on board Talyn???
Crais showed the vid of Xhalax coming to visit Aeryn when she was a child, to Aeryn when they where on Moya, after Crais returned with Talyn after the retrieval squad attacked them. Talyn John met her face to face.

It doesn't take much imagination to see that Aeryn told them both before the got seperated. :shrug:

[mjwillia]

OOOO! I forgot about that sceen! Crais and Aeryn were alone though - weren't they? Didn't Crais show the "vid chip" to Aeryn after John left the "sick bay?"

I'm sure both Johns knew about Aeryn's mom but the mom on the Vid Chip was a loving woman visiting her child. Moya John wouldn't have known about how nasty Aeryn's mom was on that "healing planet." EXCEPT - now that I think about it - both Johns knew that Aeryn's mom was heading up the retrevial squad and she was pretty darn ruthless to Talyn.... So maybe, both Johns WOULD know what Aeryn's mom would be like...

Confused? I am!

[Nicola]

One thing is In A perfect Murder when the guys with the white hair told Crichton Aeryn was temperamental or something(is that even a word???...anyway) he told him he should have met her mother. Moya's Crichton knew about Xhlax at all??? didn't Crais show the vid to Aeryn on board Talyn???

Well, that is the question, isn't it?

I am pretty sure that talking about her mother would have been the last thing that Aeryn would have shared with MoyaJohn. Of all the things that they had to talk about - Xhalax would not have been on the list. Plus, Aeryn does not easily share things like that. If Aeryn ever did volunteer something about her mother it wouldn't be for cycles and cycles after they had been together.

The actual lines in that scene were:

Prefect Falaak: "Seems a bit moody."
John shakes his head: "Man, you should'a met her mother."

MoyaJohn never met Xhalax, and no matter what he had heard about her - those are words that would not have come from his lips. Even if Rygel, Stark or Crais had filled him in on the details of Xhalax (which is possible) John wouldn't have phrased the comment that way.

So... that is the question isn't it?

And the other question is in John Quixote, who was the one who made the game???

Good catch. If you listen closely in JQ, John actually does ask that question of Stark and Stark's response is "Yoti".

Who the heck is Yoti you ask? Well, so did I.

Apparently Stark sold his memories (when he was short of cash) to Yoti and based on Stark's memories, Yoti built the game.

The vast majority of the Uncharted Territories do not perceive John and his merry band of escaped prisioners as the good guys. In fact, considering the body count they have left behind them of innocents - they are probably considered by a large percentage of the populous as Number One on the Most Wanted List.

So I think that 'Yoti' whoever s/he was, was only expressing the anger and resentment of "Joe Everybody" toward Crichton.

in the ep it says that it was Stark, but I find it a little out of Character, not to mention the fact that by that time he could have already been captured by the scarrans, well not captured captured cause supposely he used to work for them

It was out of character for Stark to behave the way the Stark/Avatar did. Although Stark is not a predictable character, I think that we can fairly safely say that he wouldn't have felt the resentment and hatred towards Chiana, Jool, D'Argo and even Aeryn that this Avatar did. (Chiana could have very well died in the game - and even if Stark did hate John enough to kill him, he wouldn't have hated Chiana the same way.)

Plus, this Avatar had Stark's mask on the wrong side of his face. A difference meant to remind us that he was not the Stark we know. While Stark was the Avatars likeness, I am pretty sure that 'Yoti' (whoever 'Yoti' is) provided the motivation and hatred.

I am willing, however, to entertain the idea that maybe s/he was in the employ of Scarrens or Peacekeepers or anyone else who is after Crichton in an attempt to capture or kill him, rather than just a vigilante working to purge the universe of undesirable elements :D.

[mjwillia]

Nicola - My hat is off to you!

Excellent analysis! (And excellent memory!)

The Yoti thing slipped right by me! I wonder if we will ever learn who Yoti is?

[fandom]

The vast majority of the Uncharted Territories do not perceive John and his merry band of escaped prisioners as the good guys. In fact, considering the body count they have left behind them of innocents - they are probably considered by a large percentage of the populous as Number One on the Most Wanted List.


Maybe they do consider them the good guys, when Grayza first appears she mentions something about how the moyans were getting legendary status at the expense of the peacekeepers, who don't seem to have many fans in the UT.

[Nicola]

Season five? Please? So many, many questions that need to be answered. *sigh*

In Canada, Space The Imagination Station is running Farscape week days and we are just finishing up Season Four (in fact, Bad Timing is today :cry2: ). So it is fairly fresh in my memory. Plus, lots of us get on the Space board and discuss the episodes after they air and that comment in Prefect Murder and JQ really did prompt a lot of discussion.

So ... don't give me much credit for the memory or analysis thing. JQ was only last month for me, and Prefect Murder was three weeks ago. :D

And they are starting again from Premiere tomorrow. :joy:

[mjwillia]

You Lucky Duck!

[Nicola]

Maybe they do consider them the good guys, when Grayza first appears she mentions something about how the moyans were getting legendary status at the expense of the peacekeepers, who don't seem to have many fans in the UT.

John Dillinger, Bonnie and Clyde and Jesse James all got legendary status during their lifetimes. And they were all violent criminals that most people felt needed to be dealt with. Permanently.

[Jeff O'Connor]

You Lucky Duck!

You took the words right out of my beak. :aok:

*coughskiffysucks*

[mjwillia]

Jeff O'Connor - You are too funny! Thanks for the laugh!

[Nicola]

We are very lucky in Canada. Space really, really supports Farscape. During "The Spacey's" they had Ben on to present two awards (and they explained that Farscape wasn't eligible for an award because it didn't have a full season last year - rats). Plus they have interviewed many members of the cast and they run clips of the interviews periodically.

They are a very approachable bunch and do actually listen to the fans. They really rock. :D

[Athlantis]

We are very lucky in Canada. Space really, really supports Farscape. During "The Spacey's" they had Ben on to present two awards (and they explained that Farscape wasn't eligible for an award because it didn't have a full season last year - rats). Plus they have interviewed many members of the cast and they run clips of the interviews periodically.

They are a very approachable bunch and do actually listen to the fans. They really rock. :D

Wow, I¡' so jelaous!!!! The day one of the Farscape crew visists Chile wpuld be... the day before never!!! :cry2:

Anyway, I totally forgot about Yoti!!! now I can lay in peace (of course there's the little thing about Aeryn's mother, but waht the heck... for now :smokin: )

Speaking of which, that's exactly my point. Aeryn barely shares her feelings, much less after Choices, so it was really strange to hear that from him...maybe the writers slip it, or maybe they just writted that to put more fun into the ep, cause IMO, it was pretty fun that particulary line, anyway, the question remains, and I'm almost sure it will, unless they are planning on pointing it at the mini which I seriously dout

[Imlego]

I think it's quite obvious that Aeryn has told Moya-John about her mother since they've been together many months after Relativity. This is the stuff that happens between the episodes and can therefore be easily explained away. A continuity problem.

But good catch - I didn't notice that.

[Nicola]

I don't think so. MoyaJohn and Aeryn have only been travelling together since "Fractures" - and Aeryn wasn't talking to MoyaJohn then. Only about very superficial stuff.

Then Aeryn didn't come back to Moya until "Promises" at which point John was the one who wasn't talking.

I don't really see any time in the four episodes after "Promises" when Aeryn would have confided in John her extremely painful experience with her mother. Especially since John was not really in any kind of receptive mood.

[mjwillia]

I agree. Aeryn was mourning T-John's death on that "Spirit Planet" when her mom tracked her there. They were about to "reconcile" with each other and BAM! Crais shoots her! Way too painful to tell the "Copy" of the man she loves about mourning the two deaths... That's not like Aeryn.

I really hope the Mini clears up the inconsistancies in Season 4. Farscape's writers have been too good to make dumb mistakes like the ones in Season 4. They must have planned to "clear them up" in Season 5... The Mini is suppose to be Season 5 squished into 4 hours... I really hope they manage to clear up some of these questions...

[Jeff O'Connor]

They must have planned to "clear them up" in Season 5... The Mini is suppose to be Season 5 squished into 4 hours... I really hope they manage to clear up some of these questions...

I really, really hope so, too.

[generic_screenname]

Good catch. If you listen closely in JQ, John actually does ask that question of Stark and Stark's response is "Yoti".

Who the heck is Yoti you ask? Well, so did I.

Apparently Stark sold his memories (when he was short of cash) to Yoti and based on Stark's memories, Yoti built the game.

Are you ready for a stretch? Okay, the Stark avatar's mask is on the wrong side of his face, like a mirror image. So what if Yoti is actually Itoy? Or something. I just have this thought that it might be a play on words of some sort.

[Jellyfish]

Remember that it is not just Aeryn that could have told Moya John about Xhalax it could have been Rygel after all he was stabbed by her. And John had been asking the others from Talyn about what had happened whilst they were away beacause Aeryn says 'ask the others' and he replies 'I did and they said talk to you' or something to that effect.
So he had been talking to them about events on the Talyn trip and although M John had often seen Aeryn get annoyed with Rygel she never stabbed him so the 'you should have met her mother' comment would be a realistic one. (In my opinion)

[trubador]

Are you ready for a stretch? Okay, the Stark avatar's mask is on the wrong side of his face, like a mirror image. So what if Yoti is actually Itoy? Or something. I just have this thought that it might be a play on words of some sort.
An i-Toy (as in "interactive toy"). Hmmmmmmmm.....

[Ouroboros]

I meant Aeryn told him off screan, it's the most logical option. I for one am greatful for not having to witness yet another one of their time devouring moments. They should do more things off screan.

[Jeff O'Connor]

I meant Aeryn told him off screan, it's the most logical option. I for one am greatful for not having to witness yet another one of their time devouring moments. They should do more things off screan.

Oh... true. That's the plothole filler most people would probably utilize, as it obviously makes the most sense. I guess I'm glad too, although if they cut down on some of their moments and replaced them with others, I think this should have definitely been one of the moments we saw instead of "sexual feeling". But that's just me. :rolleyes:

[Nicola]

I meant Aeryn told him off screan, it's the most logical option. I for one am greatful for not having to witness yet another one of their time devouring moments. They should do more things off screan.

I disagree. On screen or off, Aeryn would not be talking about her mother to MoyaJohn. Not after she comes back in Fractures, and not after she comes back in Promises.

She just isn't the type to talk about such a painful and difficult relationship. Not with John (not for cycles and cycles anyway) and not with anyone.

I don't think that any of the other characters would have talked to John about it either. Especially since many of the same conditions apply. Rygel and Crais did not spend any time with MoyaJohn until after Fractures, and Stark had already left to search for Zhaan. Rygel and Crais told John that they weren't willing to talk about the situation (any of it) and told him to talk to Aeryn directly. And we all know what happened when he tried that.

Then Crais died and Rygel and Aeryn left in Dog with Two Bones.

The only person who could have told John about Xhalax was Rygel after Crichton Kicks. And if you remember all he ever said to John was "For once, listen. When a woman-- whether she's your wife, your lover, or a slave you purchased to be your wife or lover-- leaves you repeatedly, take the hint. " He wasn't willing to talk about Aeryn (and by extension Xhalax) either.

Besides - look at the words that Crichton says to the Prefect. "Man, you should've met her mother."

If MoyaJohn was actually going to say something along those lines (which I doubt) he would have said something along the lines of: "Apparently you should have met her mother."

This is either a mistake by the writers who forgot which John had met Xhalax (and Ben would have caught that one in rehearsal) or they were setting something up to be explained later.

But character analysis and an understanding of character motivations does not support that Rygel (or Crais in that brief period between Fractures and his death) would have told John enough detail about Aeryns relationship with her mother that he would have made this particular off-hand comment about Xhalax - especially phrased that way.

Just ... no.

[jayelsee]

This is either a mistake by the writers who forgot which John had met Xhalax (and Ben would have caught that one in rehearsal) or they were setting something up to be explained later.I agree 100% with Nicola's statement. I DID notice the comment about Aeryn's mother in "A Prefect Murder" and had an instant "ah ah" moment. I, for one, do not believe that this was a writer's mistake. They ARE setting us up. I think we will learn, in the mini, that MoyaJohn now has TalynJohn's memories.....and that they are, indeed, a "reintigrated" being, with memories of both Johns intact. Remember how they were beginning to introduce the "forgotten" memories from "The Locket" (the specific most obvious example was Aeryn memories brought to the surface in "The Choice"). I think MoyaJohn is "remembering" TalynJohn memories in "A Prefect Murder" without being conscious of it....yet.

Can't WAIT for the mini!

[trubador]

I think you all are forgetting that Talyn-John left Moya-John a message in Stark's mask. I'm sure T_John would've updated M-John about these types of details in that recorded message.

[Nicola]

We saw the message that TalynJohn left for MoyaJohn. I don't recall anything about Xhalax in it.

[trubador]

Was that the complete message that we saw, though?

[Nicola]

Was that the complete message that we saw, though?

Well, I thought so. :dunno: But ... that is one of the best things about Farscape. The writers deliberately leave things a bit amiguous - open to different interpretations - so that nothing is predictable and nothing is set in stone. Just in case something more devious occurs to their evil machiavellian minds. :roflmao:

[jfranka]

T-John HAD to get M-John up to speed on their adventures. In fact, I got the impression that T-John "poured his memories" into Stark's mask. (That is a direct quote from JQ). So that M-John pretty much watched a movie, so to speak, of T-John's adventures, thus knowing her mother's charactor. I think that there is a throwaway line that states M-John gain all the memories that T-John had when he gave them to Stark in another episode.

Further, the Avatar Stark in JQ outright told M-John that the creator of the game are both Johns and Stark himself.
From the transcipts:

JOHN
Stark.
( beat )
Huh.
( beat )
So, how'd you do it? Who helped?

(Big Zhaan stands, moving closer, still speaking with Stark's voice. John backs off slightly.)

BIG ZHAAN
( with Stark's voice )
You did... you and that tragic brother.
( tsks )
Pouring his heart out on his deathbed.

JOHN
Bull. This game has crap he couldn't know.

BIG ZHAAN
( with Stark's voice )
It's crap you gave me along the way.
( beat )
You talk so much.

JOHN
( realizing )
Oh, God... no Sikozu, no Noranti...
( ironic laugh )

...then at the end of the ep......

JOHN
And you're...?

ZHAAN
Zhaan.
( slight shrug )
For all that matters.
( sighs )
This Stark wishes to keep you here. He blames you.

STARK
No!

ZHAAN
Believes I died for the love of you.

(A blink, a swallow; pain badly veiled for the sake of others. An admission near confession.)

JOHN
A lot of people have died because of me.

ZHAAN
What is it that you wish of me, John Crichton?

(He needs prompting, mesmerized by this exchange.)

ZHAAN
( soft )
A kiss.
( tenderly )
Have you wasted my death... and the deaths of so many others?

JOHN
( painfully uncertain )
I don't know.

(She steps closer, the embodiment of compassion.)

ZHAAN
Then I suggest you find out, before anyone else dies for the love of you.

So it looks like that the guilt that both Johns felt and the anger felt by Stark was the cause of the game's malfuction. The game bulids on memories of the players (that's why in the beginning, Gillina appears in the Gamment Base), but in this case John's head fried the game.

That's what I got out of it.

[Nicola]

Maybe. But we didn't see it. And it was never confirmed.

And even if it was TalynJohn who told MoyaJohn about Xhalax - that still does not explain why MoyaJohn would phrase his off hand comment to the Prefect the way he did.

As though he had personal experience with Xhalax. He did not.

The writers on this show are no dummies. Neither is Ben Browder. This was their job. And unless this was an overlooked point on everyone's part (which I cannot believe) they had a specific reason for setting it up this way.

What reason? I don't know. And I refuse to speculate 'cause I have been wrong before. Especially with Farscape.

One of the reasons I love this show :D

[jfranka]

I hit the send button before I finished my post. So you only got the title. I've just edited it so I actually say something.... :)

[Nicola]

T-John HAD to get M-John up to speed on their adventures. In fact, I got the impression that T-John "poured his memories" into Stark's mask. (That is a direct quote from JQ). So that M-John pretty much watched a movie, so to speak, of T-John's adventures, thus knowing her mother's charactor. [snip]

Further, the Avatar Stark in JQ outright told M-John that the creator of the game are both Johns and Stark himself.
From the transcipts:

JOHN
Stark.
( beat )
Huh.
( beat )
So, how'd you do it? Who helped?

(Big Zhaan stands, moving closer, still speaking with Stark's voice. John backs off slightly.)

BIG ZHAAN
( with Stark's voice )
You did... you and that tragic brother.
( tsks )
Pouring his heart out on his deathbed.

JOHN
Bull. This game has crap he couldn't know.

BIG ZHAAN
( with Stark's voice )
It's crap you gave me along the way.
( beat )
You talk so much.

JOHN
( realizing )
Oh, God... no Sikozu, no Noranti...
( ironic laugh )

Yeah. That is one distinct possibility. Although as far as the creator of the game goes, "Yoti" created the game from TalynJohn's memories only. 'Cause no Sikozu and no Norianti. Although I think the game did pick up a few things as it progressed - but nothing really significant stood out for me. Although I am willing to be proved wrong.

While Stark would have been able to access TalynJohn's memories, I am not sure that MoyaJohn would have been able as well. We did only see one message and there were no indications that MoyaJohn ever connected with anything more. At least I didn't notice them.

So it looks like that the guilt that both Johns felt and the anger felt by Stark was the cause of the game's malfuction. The game bulids on memories of the players (that's why in the beginning, Gillina appears in the Gamment Base), but in this case John's head fried the game.

That's what I got out of it.

I don't think the anger was Stark's - or at least not the lethal anger that would have killed Chiana as well as John had the game succeed in its goal.

I don't think the vast majority of the populous in the Uncharted Terriroties are very fond of John and his Merry Band of escaped prisioners.

I think the anger was Yoti's (whoever he is) - and why the game malfunctioned is anyone's guess.

I think that there is a throwaway line that states M-John gain all the memories that T-John had when he gave them to Stark in another episode.

Could you give me an inkling of where this throwaway line might be? I have just finished watching the entire Season Four on the Space Channel and I don't remember this line at all.

But if that is the case, that would explain why Aeryn said to John that she doesn't see any difference between the two of them (TalynJohn and MoyaJohn) now. That was a huge surprise to me and how Aeryn had figured it out is beyond me. Made me wonder what the heck (besides assasinations) Aeryn had been up to during her summer vacation! :shocked:

[Nicola]

Oh and by the way :D This is so much more entertaining a conversation than some of the others I might mention (but won't). More please :joy:

[AyuRocks]

I noticed this too.. and it bothered me as well.

Either it was a mistake.. or there is something else planned. It doesn't make sense he would say it as if it were him just because he may have been told about it... I'm thinking it was mistake. We'll see I suppose.

Ashley

[Athlantis]

Wow! I was just curious about the eps, and this turned into a damn serous conversation! this is so krell!!! :D (I just was at Farscape Enciclopedia, it's amazing the things you learn!!!, bad thing they don't have the meaning of what Aeryn told 'Jack' in AHR )

Anyway, the thing about if both Johns expieriencies and feelings (after the separetion) it's highly unrealistic (IMO!!!) why? well because before t-John died, Harvey was removed from his head (not the chip, but the clone) so idf indeed M and T Crichton were to share everything, wouldn't scorpy be of M-John mind as well?

I completely overlook T-John and the Mask, so maybe he told M-John (isn't this t and m annoying or what???) though I really don't think he would, but even so, M-John didn't meet Aeryn's mother so still what he said would be strange. I don't know, maybe the writers planned that line to be funny or to leave us intrigued, or maybe Ben thought of that line for the same reasons, still.
I 'm with jayelsee, I can't wait for Peacekeeper war, I just read some spoilers given by Kemper or was it Rockne?, anyway, and it sounded beyond damn interesting!!!!. (btw, I'm such a fahrbot, I just ralized, like two weeks ago, that DK is short for David Kemper) the time is killing meeeee!

Btw Jeff O'Connor:

"When money and mathematics came into play, we lost Farscape. When strong bonds and willpower arose, we got it back. Hey, pessimists... here's the proof that good can triumph over evil. We got our frelling show back."

AMET

[zen98034]

But if that is the case, that would explain why Aeryn said to John that she doesn't see any difference between the two of them (TalynJohn and MoyaJohn) now. That was a huge surprise to me and how Aeryn had figured it out is beyond me. Made me wonder what the heck (besides assasinations) Aeryn had been up to during her summer vacation!

I didn't really see this as much of a revelation. I think that she realized that she was in love with John Chriton period. She loved him even before he was twinned and she realized that MJohn is the same person that she loved before spending the time that she did with TJohn. (This is sounding a lot better in my head btw) I think that by his actions since they got back together that he is just as honorable and deserving of her love as his counterpart. She realizes that it is not his fault that he was left behind and should not suffer the loss of her for events he had no control over.

At least that's my take. :)

[sny]

there's two things that has been bothering me for a while now, One thing is In A perfect Murder when the guys with the white hair told Crichton Aeryn was temperamental or something(is that even a word???...anyway) he told him he should have met her mother. Moya's Crichton knew about Xhlax at all??? didn't Crais show the vid to Aeryn on board Talyn???

Actually, I think people may tend to overanalyze that line. It's just as likely that John was making a weak "mother-in-law" joke of sorts. Ever since I read that explanation for that line (here, maybe, a few months ago) I've been rather fond of it. I've heard the line in several movies, when someone says "Gee, your wife sure is being unreasonable/angry/cranky/temperamental/whatever." and the husband responds "You should have met/should meet her mother!" It's an old workhorse joke. Almost as old as "Take my wife... please!"

[Reefrunner]

sny, thank you. That is more or less how I see that line myself.

Just a thought, but TJohn saw Aeryn's mother for all of, what, two minutes? Long enough to know that she was in a murderous rage, spitting hatred at Aeryn, but not nearly long enough to know if she was 'moody'. On the other hand, MJohn would have gotten the stories about what happened from Rygel, who could accurately have told him about Xhalax's mood swings and behavior on Talyn, while TJohn and Crais weren't there.

As to Rygel not being willing to talk about Aeryn--I took his remarks in CK to mean that he thought John was wasting his time waiting for Aeryn, not that he was unwilling to talk about her. And Rygel is always willing to talk about himself. It would be very out of character for him not to talk about his big adventure getting slit open and about how Stark sewed his robe into his chest, which would of course involve telling about Xhalax, since she was the one who stabbed him. He wouldn't necessarily have to tell it as being something that happened to Aeryn at all.

[Athlantis]

sny, thank you. That is more or less how I see that line myself.

Just a thought, but TJohn saw Aeryn's mother for all of, what, two minutes? Long enough to know that she was in a murderous rage, spitting hatred at Aeryn, but not nearly long enough to know if she was 'moody'. On the other hand, MJohn would have gotten the stories about what happened from Rygel, who could accurately have told him about Xhalax's mood swings and behavior on Talyn, while TJohn and Crais weren't there.

As to Rygel not being willing to talk about Aeryn--I took his remarks in CK to mean that he thought John was wasting his time waiting for Aeryn, not that he was unwilling to talk about her. And Rygel is always willing to talk about himself. It would be very out of character for him not to talk about his big adventure getting slit open and about how Stark sewed his robe into his chest, which would of course involve telling about Xhalax, since she was the one who stabbed him. He wouldn't necessarily have to tell it as being something that happened to Aeryn at all.


Maybe, though I'm not so sure Rygel, or an of the others for that matter, sould have told him anything about that time, because well, it was pretty hard to all of them, after losing (or was it loosing???) T-John, so I really don't think any of them was willing to talk about that time.

That's what I think, but if my thinking is wrong, then your explanation would completly answer that question :D

btw Sny, maybe that's exactly why he said it, but then again... I don't know, it just sounded, to me, that he was more aware of Xhalax, maybe he wasn't aware at all, that's basically why that line sounded funny(not funny ha ha, more like funny mmm strange mm) to me

[MrX]

I don't know. I think that Rygel may have told MJohn. Especially if John kept bothering him about it. He'd tell him just to make him shut up.

[mjwillia]

I don't know. I think that Rygel may have told MJohn. Especially if John kept bothering him about it. He'd tell him just to make him shut up.


I think TJohn's halogram told MJohn the whole story. We didn't get to "see or hear" the whole message that TJohn's halogram gave. We only heard what Aeryn heard....

[Athlantis]

I don't know. I think that Rygel may have told MJohn. Especially if John kept bothering him about it. He'd tell him just to make him shut up.
:D good point

[Spedoinkel]

the white hair told Crichton Aeryn was temperamental or something(is that even a word???
Yes, tempermental means moody.
And the other question is in John Quixote, who was the one who made the game??? cause in the ep it says that it was Stark, but I find it a little out of Character
I'm really sure it was made by Stark, and not at all out of character. Stark is after all insane. And his anger and remorse at lossing Zhaan, would have driven him to find some mode of vengance. Though why he chose to use a game, I don't know.

Does anyone remember if Zhan, Moya and her crew came into contact with any Peacekeepers before Zhan died?

What? Are you joking or just forgetting the first two seasons?


I think that we can fairly safely say that he wouldn't have felt the resentment and hatred towards Chiana, Jool, D'Argo and even Aeryn that this Avatar did. (Chiana could have very well died in the game - and even if Stark did hate John enough to kill him, he wouldn't have hated Chiana the same way.)
I don't remeber anything saying the Stark Avatar hated them. As for trapping Chi, it was just another way to keep Crighton in the game, or the Avatar didn't know about the switch.

[Nicola]

I'm really sure it was made by Stark, and not at all out of character. Stark is after all insane. And his anger and remorse at lossing Zhaan, would have driven him to find some mode of vengance. Though why he chose to use a game, I don't know.

No. The game wasn't made by Stark. Stark sold his memories to a game designer by the name of Yoti. And Yoti made the game. So while I am prepared to accept that Stark is angry with John Crichton, I do not think the murderous rage that the avatar felt for John was Stark's alone.

John Crichton (and the rest of the crew) have been gaining quite the reputation in the Uncharted Territories. And not everyone likes them. In fact, the vast majority regard them with deep suspicion at the very least. So booby trapping the game so that it would trap and probably kill John Crichton would be consistent with some vigilante justice felt by this Yoti.

[Spedoinkel]

Hmmm, what if Yoti misspelled his name in the code of the game....Yoda?

[Athlantis]

Hmmm, what if Yoti misspelled his name in the code of the game....Yoda?

:D mmm crossover??? :rolleyes:

Yes, tempermental means moody.

Yay! I taped it right!!! Thanks forthe clarification!

I don't remeber anything saying the Stark Avatar hated them. As for trapping Chi, it was just another way to keep Crighton in the game, or the Avatar didn't know about the switch.

good point! Though I'm still uncertan...

Nicola, I really hope your explanation is correct, cause I really can't imagine Stark as the evil guy who is looking for revenge!

Do you think maybe the mini will tell??? I suppose if on it, John doesn't mention it to Stark, that would mean he doesn't think he did it; and if John does mention it, he would be suspicios and maybe we'd get our answers :D !

[Spedoinkel]

I would like to see John confront Stark on it.

[Athlantis]

Me too!!! I'd love to see Stark's reaction about it!!

[PKTechDude]

Personally, I don't think we saw the entire message in "Fractures." Didn't Talyn John show Moya John how destructive wormholes can be? Additionally, when they start showing the message, it really doesn't feel like the beginning of it to me.

My guess is that Moya John was shown several of Talyn John's memories to help convince him of the destructive nature of wormholes. Additionally, I think Moya John was shown more than just the wormhole stuff.

[Scapekid]

Hey guys. Sorry for cutting to the end here, but I'm pretty sure no one has mentioned the two cut scenes from Fractures that prove *everyone* on Moya knows about Xhalax.

They're on the Region Two Disk set, so I don't know if you guys got them in the States.

Scene one is between Crais and John when they're going into the broken transport pod to look for the Boolite. We come in halfway through their conversation. John says, "So you killed Aeryn's mother?" Crais replies, "In the end, Xhalax wanted to die." Then John asks Crais about Aeryn and the other him and Crais tells him to ask Aeryn that question. Then they begin speaking about something else.

The second scene is when Crais and Jool are trying to reassemble the Boolite. Jool is expressing her disbelief that Crais can lie about the retrieval squad being after Talyn when they were really after him, and say he'd killed Aeryn's mother when in fact he made a deal with her, and still have the crew put up with him when she tries to be nice to everyone and they still want her gone.

I transcribed the scenes in the "Man you should have met her mother," thread over at Kansas, though I think it's on the second or third page by now.

So there's the proof that MJohn knows about Xhalax.

[CeRell]

We do know that the mask can hold memories...Stark sold TJ's memories to the game maker in John Quixote, which Ben, of course, wrote. We also know that the dying pass onto Stark, a Stykera, their life's memories as they pass. Of course, when TJ passed, only Aeryn was with him. So...just how many and what memories did TJ impart to Stark during their conversation before TJ's death?

[Nhoj]

The game could have been quite innocuous and not ment to trap anyone, but as an iteractive game drawing on the gamers own memories it may have picked up on Johns' subconcious guilt and incorporated it into the game. It was Johns own sense of being responsible that traped him into the game untill this was resolved, Chiana got traped because she was in the game with John and couldn't leave till he resolved his own conflicted sense of guilt.

I see the "Man, you should have met her mother.", as one of those quick retorts John often makes. It not only has a long history in movies (as previously mentioned by another poster) and other TV shows (which John often refrences {one of the things I enjoy about Farscape}) but a line I've used myself. I don't see anything incongruous about it. I think you're reading more into it then is there, but I could be wrong, and where Farscape is concerned we all often are!!

[Athlantis]

Hey guys. Sorry for cutting to the end here, but I'm pretty sure no one has mentioned the two cut scenes from Fractures that prove *everyone* on Moya knows about Xhalax.

They're on the Region Two Disk set, so I don't know if you guys got them in the States.

Scene one is between Crais and John when they're going into the broken transport pod to look for the Boolite. We come in halfway through their conversation. John says, "So you killed Aeryn's mother?" Crais replies, "In the end, Xhalax wanted to die." Then John asks Crais about Aeryn and the other him and Crais tells him to ask Aeryn that question. Then they begin speaking about something else.

The second scene is when Crais and Jool are trying to reassemble the Boolite. Jool is expressing her disbelief that Crais can lie about the retrieval squad being after Talyn when they were really after him, and say he'd killed Aeryn's mother when in fact he made a deal with her, and still have the crew put up with him when she tries to be nice to everyone and they still want her gone.

I transcribed the scenes in the "Man you should have met her mother," thread over at Kansas, though I think it's on the second or third page by now.

So there's the proof that MJohn knows about Xhalax.

Wait, do cut scenes count? :eek: I didn't think about those!!! now that line it's more clear to me, thanks for clarification Scapekid, I'm run(n)ing to read the transcript!!!!