View Full Version : Karen Shaw? did I misread something here?
evilnos_unholy
05-05-2004, 04:11 PM
well, if john realy did go back in time... and he lost his virginity to karen shaw at 16.... then he would certainly remember karen shaw as chiana when he first met her right? oh why I analyzed this I don't know, but in terra firma, or kansas chiana got on the truck with young johnny crichton, and then they supposedly did the "diddy diddy what, the diddy diddy wooh!"
so when many years in the future john meets chiana again, didn't he already know her? so why didn't he ask himself why she had not aged any from their first encounter... or is he that clever that he knew he had traveled back in time and had violent teen intercourse with a grey girl from some place else in the universe?... huh?!? what?? or was all this erased from the timeline? did everyone for get about that ordeal? or did they all just slide into another dimension where events are different....
and before you say it, yes I have a chiana obsession, gigi gives me "twisted dreams"
:bowdown:
fandom
05-05-2004, 04:22 PM
That's because of Granny's powder, it made him forget everything except Karen Shaw in the 4x4.
So he rememebers it happening but he doesn't quite remember the details.
But the truth is, this is one of these things that are not meant to be analysed too much.
That's because of Granny's powder, it made him forget everything except Karen Shaw in the 4x4.
And if I recall correctly, the only reason he remembers that much is because Chi whispered it to him. Granny tells him to forget everything, and then Chi whispers "Except Karen Shaw... in the back of the 4x4..." or something similar.
Plus, it's been somewhere around 2 decades since he lost his virginity by the time he "meets" Chi for the first time. You're probably not going to remember that "Karen Shaw's Halloween costume" on the Halloween you nearly perished in a house fire looked exactly like the alien you just met, most likely, even in the best of circumstances.
We tend to remember what we think we saw, too, rather than what we actually saw. Young John thinks this is Karen Shaw in a Halloween costume. That's what gets imprinted on his mind. That's what he tells himself, so that's what he remembers. Chi saying "Karen Shaw" reinforces this. Now... if she had said "Remember Chianna in the back of the 4x4", that might be a little more suspect...
evilnos_unholy
05-05-2004, 09:59 PM
ok... so... it was granny's powder eh? that old woman needs to stay away from messing up john... about what you said "it has been 20 yrs" well I still remember vividly my first... I'll never forget it... but then again, I never almost died in some fire and in my case it wasn't a 4x4 but a volkswagen, but alright maybe john's head has been messed up since that day? damn there I go again.... must quit over analyzing farscape or I will go farbot, anyway... back to looking a pictures of gigi for me...
LAScaper
05-05-2004, 10:13 PM
You're so deep. :rollin:
trubador
05-05-2004, 10:37 PM
...Plus, it's been somewhere around 2 decades since he lost his virginity by the time he "meets" Chi for the first time. You're probably not going to remember that "Karen Shaw's Halloween costume" on the Halloween you nearly perished in a house fire looked exactly like the alien you just met, most likely, even in the best of circumstances....
I'm not so sure about that. John would at least say to Chi (at least at some point during the four arns on Moya), "You know, Pip.... have I ever told you that you look a lot like this girl I first 'did it' with?" It'd at least cross his mind after the Kansas ep, when Chi's whisper triggers the confusion between her and the real Karen Shaw from his past (if there was a real Karen Shaw to begin with). Don't want to go down that road too far... makes my head hurt. :g2f:
Nicola
05-05-2004, 10:39 PM
Don't forget - Chiana and John did the deed in the back of Betty - not his Dad's 4x4.
So while he remembers what Chiana told him to ... he is a bit fuzzy on the details. Like Karen Shaw is very pale all over - and 'the makeup' doesn't rub off..... ;)
trubador
05-05-2004, 10:45 PM
...So while he remembers what Chiana told him to ... he is a bit fuzzy on the details. Like Karen Shaw's 'makeup' doesn't rub off..... ;)
Can I be the test subject for that??? :P
Jeff O'Connor
05-05-2004, 10:49 PM
Can I be the test subject for that??? :P
Get in line, T. ;)
(if there was a real Karen Shaw to begin with). Don't want to go down that road too far... makes my head hurt. :g2f:
I think there was a real Karen Shaw, who Young John would have at least heard of (friend of a friend, maybe or a classmate of sorts), and "knew", at least by sight. When Chi makes that "Shiaah!" noise after hopping into the truck, John seems to leap on that "Did you say Shaw? Karen Shaw?" awfully quick, like he knows that name quite well. (Maybe the real Karen Shaw had quite the rep...)
And I still say, not many people are going to meet a fugitive alien prisoner not long after ending up on a living spaceship and immediately say "Hey! Is there a possibility I lost my virginity to you about 2 decades ago? Like, maybe you time traveled back, or are just really well preserved?" Not the obvious conclusion to draw . Besides, his memories are so fuzzy, thanks to Granny and the near death experience, I doubt he remembers much at all. All his mind can dredge up is the name "Karen Shaw" and the location, so he puts Karen Shaw's face and body (if he knew her that well) on the girl he remembers sleeping with. John has more of an "imaginative mental reenactment" of his session with this girl, not a true memory. He's reconstructed it from what little he does remember. (Which we now know ain't that accurate...)
That theory works for me without making my head hurt.
Much.
SabaceanBabe
05-06-2004, 12:13 PM
I think there was a real Karen Shaw, who Young John would have at least heard of (friend of a friend, maybe or a classmate of sorts), and "knew", at least by sight. When Chi makes that "Shiaah!" noise after hopping into the truck, John seems to leap on that "Did you say Shaw? Karen Shaw?" awfully quick, like he knows that name quite well. (Maybe the real Karen Shaw had quite the rep...)
And I still say, not many people are going to meet a fugitive alien prisoner not long after ending up on a living spaceship and immediately say "Hey! Is there a possibility I lost my virginity to you about 2 decades ago? Like, maybe you time traveled back, or are just really well preserved?" Not the obvious conclusion to draw . Besides, his memories are so fuzzy, thanks to Granny and the near death experience, I doubt he remembers much at all. All his mind can dredge up is the name "Karen Shaw" and the location, so he puts Karen Shaw's face and body (if he knew her that well) on the girl he remembers sleeping with. John has more of an "imaginative mental reenactment" of his session with this girl, not a true memory. He's reconstructed it from what little he does remember. (Which we now know ain't that accurate...)
That theory works for me without making my head hurt.
Much.
Yup. I agree wholeheartedly, sny. That and the stuff from Unrealized Reality that says the timeline will naturally right itself if things don't get too far out of whack.
What about this: In That Old Black Magic Maldis (at this point that "joker") tolds John "You lost your virginity to Karen Shat in back of the minivan" and John corrects "that was 4-by-4"
So did he really lose his virginity in back of the minivan? But when Chianna whispers "Except Karen Shaw... in the back of the 4x4..." it did alter his memory or what??? :confused:
Just one of those "flashbacks" in Farscape....
Nicola
05-11-2004, 12:24 PM
Well Betty (where John actually did lose his virginity) is a half ton truck - not a minivan. But Chiana told him to remember the 4x4 so that is what John remembers.
It would have been so cool if Maldis (in his incarnation as the fool) had said Betty and then John corrected him to the 4x4. Only to find out 3 seasons later that Maldis was right all along.... ;)
marandken
05-11-2004, 03:35 PM
OK, it doesn't make a lot of sense but I think that the time line where Chi was "Karen" didn't start until Kanas. That means that in the first season, when Maldis tells him about Karen Shaw, it really was that person. However, in Kansas, John may have mis-heard the Chi's name and just assumed it was Karen cuz she was a real person. Then, then new time line for young John begins.
SOOO when he first sees Chi on Moya, he doesn't have the memories of her being Karen.
Time for a drink
SweetpeaAeryn
05-11-2004, 03:45 PM
To me, Chiana is Karen Shaw. You have to think about it, normal John was hopped up on drugs and too involved in worrying about his dad and the young John was in a life-or-death situation. The reason Chiana said "4 wheel drive" was because John had always imagined his first time in his dad's 4x4.
Because of Granny's potion, the young John probably would have rationalized his remembrances with created memories filling in the blanks. But remember, he did have an immidiate fascination with Chiana. ;)
mjwillia
05-11-2004, 03:56 PM
OK, it doesn't make a lot of sense but I think that the time line where Chi was "Karen" didn't start until Kanas. That means that in the first season, when Maldis tells him about Karen Shaw, it really was that person. However, in Kansas, John may have mis-heard the Chi's name and just assumed it was Karen cuz she was a real person. Then, then new time line for young John begins.
SOOO when he first sees Chi on Moya, he doesn't have the memories of her being Karen.
Time for a drink
This is why I hope I never have to deal with Time Travel! I surely would get lost!
I like your explaination!
Selena
05-11-2004, 04:04 PM
I believe that the first time John lays eyes on Chiana he REALLY looks at her - the way someone looks at someone they think they know or they think they should know.
Young John was also in shock after that little event. He almost dies and is in hospital and has been not only under Granny's powder's influence but also an overdose of Granny's potion. Who knows what kind of effect that had on him.
And if you REALLY want to get deep evilnos_unholy just contemplate for a moment the implications of time travel and frelling with a person's past from the future and the ramifications of that.
Kurt_eh
05-11-2004, 04:04 PM
Because of Granny's potion, the young John probably would have rationalized his remembrances with created memories filling in the blanks. But remember, he did have an immidiate fascination with Chiana. ;)
I think we all did :lech: :innocent:
marandken
05-12-2004, 09:55 AM
Durka returns is on this week, right? I guess we can all re-watch those scenes with John and Chi and think about what's gonna happen !
SweetpeaAeryn
05-12-2004, 10:19 AM
I think we all did :lech: :innocent:
:lol
marandken
05-13-2004, 11:36 PM
I believe that the first time John lays eyes on Chiana he REALLY looks at her - the way someone looks at someone they think they know or they think they should know....
I dunno.... I just watched Durka again. John does seem interested in Chi; but IMO not in a 'seen you before' kinda way; more like 'oh, here's an different alien' way. I was looking for this Selena.
I'm goin' with my first thought; that the time line where Chi is Karen hasn't started yet.
Interesting question tho: Do you think the WRITERs had this all planned out; that Chi would be Karen? Were they expecting a season 4 where this would come up; back during season 1 where Maldis says the line to John? This might make the brain explode or something. :headbang:
Interesting question tho: Do you think the WRITERs had this all planned out; that Chi would be Karen? Were they expecting a season 4 where this would come up; back during season 1 where Maldis says the line to John? This might make the brain explode or something. :headbang:
Probably not that far back. I suspect this is one of those things DK (I believe) said were a combination of coincidence and planning, in an interview. He said they made it a practice to write down little tidbits that they tossed out about character pasts (like John losing his virginity to a specific girl) and about interconnections, like the Egyptian symbols on that planet, in a big binder. Then later, they would pick and choose things to use again.
I'm guessing they spotted the Karen Shaw tidbit while writing the time travel ep and thought it too priceless to pass up. Considering Chi wasn't even supposed to be a recurring character to begin with, I doubt they had it planned in that kind of detail all the way from season 1.
Makes my head explode enough that they keep a big binder...
vBulletin v3.6.0, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.