The EPA is frelled, and your hybrid prolly isn't as good on gas as advertised...

[DentArthurDent]

sooo...looks like what you really get from a hybrid is less emissions, not so much phenomenal mileage. Though they do get GOOD mpg... I guess I was under the false assumption that the EPA actually changed their tests as needed... :rollin: what AM I THINKIN?

from wired news: http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,63413,00.html?tw=wn_story_top5

[fermicat]

I would consult Consumer Reports rather than the EPA for a car's gas mileage and other performance parameters. They use rigorous test methods, which they publish along with their reports.

It is disappointing to hear that the hybrid mileage isn't as good as promised by the EPA ratings.

[Jeff O'Connor]

Isn't it fascinating how things that are good always suck on one level or another. *sighs* The environment is doomed.

[Darth Buddha]

I would consult Consumer Reports rather than the EPA for a car's gas mileage and other performance parameters. They use rigorous test methods, which they publish along with their reports.

It is disappointing to hear that the hybrid mileage isn't as good as promised by the EPA ratings.I'm with you on consumer reports.

And I'm not sold on hybrid technology as THE answer. Some of these solid storage hydrogen options sound VERY good. Moreover the electricity to produce hydrogen AT THE STATION is readily available, can be sourced from both alternative and nuclear power.

Electric by itself just doesn't seem to have it, and hybrids seem doomed due to the weight and the duplication.

[grinner]

Uh... can I promote... Bio-Diesel again? A good friend of mine just had his 1979 VW diesel rabbit go over 400,000 miles. He has been running 100% Bio-diesel for 320,000 of those miles. He just had his engine rebuilt cause his timing belt broke... and there is absolutely NO SCORING on the cylinders. The guy that rebuilt the engine... used ALL HIS ORIGINAL parts. Only replaced the timing belt and all the gaskets. The engine looked brand new. How many cars do you know of... that at 400,000 miles... still get 43 mpg and whose engine looked like it was brand new?

[fermicat]

I was thinking about this some more and am really struck by how dumb the EPA's method is (computing mileage based on measured emissions). That is just bad science. It is ALWAYS better to measure something directly than to use an indirect method. Errors and assumptions can compound quickly and render the results highly inaccurate. It is 2004 and I cannot believe there isn't a decent way for the EPA to measure gas mileage using a direct technique. Morons.

[zap]

Right there with you grinner!

[grinner]

oh... and when emission tested... came out NEGATIVE on EVERY level. The emission tester did the test twice before calling his supervisior who tested it twice more... as they couldn't believe that nothing was showing up on the test.

[Jeff O'Connor]

I've been considering buying a Rabbit from a coworker as my first car...

[grinner]

I've been considering buying a Rabbit from a coworker as my first car...
get the diesel. even if you don't run bio-diesel... it is still more economical than the gas rabbit/gti

[Jeff O'Connor]

Yeah, makes sense, I think I definitely will.

[DentArthurDent]

and gas rabbits had a serious vaporlock problem, unless they were retrofitted... so be careful if you buy one... either way mileage is pretty good, but the diesel is about 10 mpg better...

so grin-man does the bio-d exhaust bug your asthma? 'cuz if it was clean enough I might think about it, but regular diesel... no, me not so much, but my son couldn't handle that...

AFD

[grinner]

nope. I can sit right behind it and breath it in all day. Smells like... baking potatoes... or other vegtables cooking. Very pleasant. Now, 80% soy stinks... like... soy, but it also doesn't bother me.

[DentArthurDent]

gives a whole new meaning to what's cookin' eh? :rollin: on the other hand that puts a WHOLE buncha used mercedes diesels in my reach... hmmmmm...

[grinner]

A couple years ago... there was a rallycar in the US that ran the entire series using Bio-Diesel. While everyone kept having to refill their tanks during the event... this guy would go 2 events on the same tank of fuel.

[DentArthurDent]

yeah... as I suspected, the nearest distributor is 60miles, nearest retail, like 90... and once I move to the mountains 120... hmmm, what kinda mileage does your friend get?

[Third EYe]

bio-deisel, that's all you kids think about today. Whatever happened to free love and under a dollar gasoline.

Read this stuff

Turkey Fuel? (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/11/1125_031125_turkeyoil.html)

Waste into oil? (http://www.sovereignty.org.uk/features/footnmouth/zwaste2.html)

Cleaning up with Turkey guts (http://www.glenkenner.com/archives/000003.html)

bio-deisel, you crazy kids.......

[DentArthurDent]

oh, great, you grive the car and it makes you hungry for a turkey dinner...

[Darth Buddha]

The NEW E.P.A. method isn't hard science. It is political science. In this case, left wing political science.

As a scientist, when I see outright LIES like that parading around in the guise of science, it makes me want to SCREAM. Even worse than when the WRONG statistics are quoted by politicians, newspapers, and the like.

With oil prices rising to all time highs and the Middle East on the verge of exploding, it looks like the time to find oil alternatives is long past... hybrid vehicles dont' really change that dependence.

Personally, I'm still sold on a French style nuclear power situation and solid storage hydrogen cells myself. But bio-deisel makes a hell of a lot more sense than hybrid cars, or even electrics.

[Third EYe]

If it's french, I don't want it, no matter what...

[Paul Cousins]

Most government employees of the EPA are either members Green Peace and/or PETA; they will not be happy until the rest of us are living in caves or dead (must remember their population control plans).

And if you took a look at the regulations that they have created over the past three decades you will see that I am RIGHT!

[stellar]

:)