Were they there [spoilers for 1.16 A Human Reaction]

[Fyodor]

In A Human Reaction, were D'Argo, Rygel and Aeryn in the simulation.
I know that the ancient said something of the sort, but what caught my eye was when John realized that he knew everyone, Aeryn started smiling and telling him it's allright. This is where my old-school sci-fi nerve was struck, because every scene like that always ends up with the 'friends' turning out to be the bad guys' puppets or the bad guys themselfs.

And what did D'Argo mean with "Enough is enough"

[TalynLives]

D'argo, Rygel and Aeryn were in the simulation for real. Aeryn refers back to it a few times in later seasons.

[MaveZ]

I didnt want to do another thread about this, so I will put it here..

I watched the premiere couple days ago, and suddenly found this little conflict with another episode...

In human reaction, Aeryn says something like 'peacekeepers wouldnt even kill their prisoners to study them...'
but in Premiere, you can hear Crais saying
'A human, it will require some study.. I will personally enjoy pulling you apart to see what you are made of.'
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......... Interesting......

Peacekeeper lies?

[Jeff O'Connor]

Crais lies.

[Fyodor]

"You have my oath, as a peacekeepper"

Don't make me laugh my guts out, PLEASE!

[NYPinTA]

I didnt want to do another thread about this, so I will put it here..

I watched the premiere couple days ago, and suddenly found this little conflict with another episode...

In human reaction, Aeryn says something like 'peacekeepers wouldnt even kill their prisoners to study them...'
but in Premiere, you can hear Crais saying
'A human, it will require some study.. I will personally enjoy pulling you apart to see what you are made of.'
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......... Interesting......

Peacekeeper lies?

Nice catch... and although Aeryn might not think so, I bet Peacekeepers would be perfectly OK with gutting and studing another race. They just haven't run across a race they didn't already know in a long long time.

[JrMissToughChick]

Nice catch... and although Aeryn might not think so, I bet Peacekeepers would be perfectly OK with gutting and studing another race. They just haven't run across a race they didn't already know in a long long time.
Crais is not a scientist He wanted to simply do it for fun...

[NYPinTA]

Crais is not a scientist He wanted to simply do it for fun...
True, but that doesn't mean it isn't done either.
& also, at this time I think Aeryn still believes in a lot of the Peacekeeper propaganda that she grew up with... the "Peacekeepers fight for those who cannot" and all that dren. Crais however, as one of the higher ups, knows exactly what the PKs are willing to do.. and that is a lot more then they let on.

[ChrichtonKicks]

Remember, when Crais says "I will personally enjoy pulling you apart to see what you are made of" He was under the impression that Chrichton had just killed his brother... And he later went awol to chase Chrichton, ignoring First Command... I guess he was ignoring them then too?

[NYPinTA]

Maybe. But he said that in front of a whole lot of other PKs as if it were the norm, only I think maybe Aeryn kind of ignored those parts of the PK mentality. They were all she had ever known, and the idea that they were somehow wrong or unhonorable didn't enter her mind until much later.
So, I think it might be just a matter of her 'soldiers honor' that she makes that statement in 'A Human Reaction', that true soldiers wouldn't study their prisoners the way humans did. Higher up PKs aren't that honorable. :shrug:
But, I am just guessing. :)

BTW- I totally agree he would have done it just for the pleasure of it, even if John had been a species they were well acquainted with. ;) He would have smiled, and laughed, and did a jig in his ruby red slippers. :lol

[soyarma]

I don't think that he meant study Crichton's physiology, I think he meant study the expression of pain on his face as he tortured him to death.

Aeryn was probably also exagerating a bit in an effort to convince them not to chance the conflict with the PKs

[Spedoinkel]

Crais is a scientist, the Hybrid project was his design. And remeber whe he helped Jool put the Boolite back together.

[squidgey]

back to the OP question,
i'm also curious about the simulation. i understand they were really in it (living matter) but were they aware that it was just a sim? or did they think they were really on earth? and it wasn't until they were 'taken away' seperately they found out the truth?

[soyarma]

I was always under the impression they were really in it due to how D'Argo and Rygel were together at the end.

[squidgey]

I watched the ep again last night, I don't think they were 'in' on the scheme until the end. the way they reacted, d'argo, rygel & aeryn I really think they thought they were on earth. Of course after the guards(or ancients) took them away (ie they came for rygel, then for d'argo) they were let in on what was really happening. Probably told to wait until john was done. that's why at the end d'argo says "enough is enough" pretty much meaning, time to stop playing and go home. I suppose aeryn would have been in on it to, if she stayed and was taken away. Instead, she was all PK about it and busted out of the cell.

[NYPinTA]

What I want to know is, once the Ancients knew that Earth was not the place for them, why did they continue with the simulation? It was pretty much clear once the humans kept D'Argo, Rygel, and Aeryn locked up that aliens would not be welcomed with open arms and allowed to co-habitate. Why keep John in the sim? Was it because he came through a wormhole and they decided to keep testing him? Just to see how smart he was?
And to me, it seemed that Aeryn was in on it a bit near the end. Was it what Jack said to her, or from before I can't tell. It's a mystery! :D

[Spedoinkel]

I'm sure they were still testing John.

[fellip_nectar]

...And to me, it seemed that Aeryn was in on it a bit near the end. Was it what Jack said to her, or from before I can't tell. It's a mystery! :D

Yes, that's correct.

When Jack said "Thank You, Aeryn Sun" to Aeryn, she recognised that the translator microbes were not used (that is why she paused and turned around), therefore Jack spoke those words in Sebacean, thus triggering Aeryn's suspicions. Although not actually seen by the veiwer, I suspect that Jack explains the situation to Aeryn at this point.

[Spedoinkel]

I don't think he said it in Sebacean, or John would have heard it and questioned what was going on. It was just that Jake didn't know Aeryn and was being so kind and trusting to her, that made her take pause. She haddn't had anyone thatnk her before.

[fellip_nectar]

Yes but John appeared to be out of earshot at this point

[Spedoinkel]

Yes but John appeared to be out of earshot at this point
Yes so?

[so-much-4-sanity]

Well, I think the real issue with "Jack" and Aeryn understanding each other, wasn't that Aeryn understood Jack, but that Jack understood Aeryn when he shouldn't have been able to. It's possible that Aeryn only wanted John to calm down so they wouldn't risk being uncovered by the "bad guys". She was confused as to why he was freaking out (hmm...not the first or last time on that one, aye?).

As to PK's studying their captives...well, we know a certain scientist would never chase someone across the galaxy to capture them and disect their brain for wormhole knowledge! :cool:

[Spedoinkel]

As to PK's studying their captives...well, we know a certain scientist would never chase someone across the galaxy to capture them and disect their brain for wormhole knowledge! :cool:

Two even.

[Hope]

What I want to know is, once the Ancients knew that Earth was not the place for them, why did they continue with the simulation? It was pretty much clear once the humans kept D'Argo, Rygel, and Aeryn locked up that aliens would not be welcomed with open arms and allowed to co-habitate. Why keep John in the sim? Was it because he came through a wormhole and they decided to keep testing him? Just to see how smart he was?
And to me, it seemed that Aeryn was in on it a bit near the end. Was it what Jack said to her, or from before I can't tell. It's a mystery! :D



I believe the Ancients saw what kind of person John was and decided then to pass their knowledge on to him because they were a dying race. I figured the rest of the simulation was to make sure he was the one to give the knowledge to. I am sure they wouldn't want to give it to just anyone. :rolleyes:

[pkgrl]

This is the episode in my DVD player right now! Cool!

What I want to know is, once the Ancients knew that Earth was not the place for them, why did they continue with the simulation? It was pretty much clear once the humans kept D'Argo, Rygel, and Aeryn locked up that aliens would not be welcomed with open arms and allowed to co-habitate. Why keep John in the sim? Was it because he came through a wormhole and they decided to keep testing him? Just to see how smart he was?
And to me, it seemed that Aeryn was in on it a bit near the end. Was it what Jack said to her, or from before I can't tell. It's a mystery!
They couldn't know that Earth wouldn't welcome them until the sim with John was finished. That's why he was there. None of the "humans" in the sim were real... they were sims themselves, reacting like John thought they'd react (which is why he's so frustrated in WGFA), so the Ancients couldn't get a clear picture until John was finished... until he either figured it out or gave up.

In the American broadcast version, all Jack said was "Thank you, Aeryn Sun." Seemed to me that Aeryn was surprised by this because she had spoken to him in Sebacean and John's dad wouldn't have been able to understand her (at this point). I don't think he told her what was "really" going on, though.

I believe the Ancients saw what kind of person John was and decided then to pass their knowledge on to him because they were a dying race. I figured the rest of the simulation was to make sure he was the one to give the knowledge to. I am sure they wouldn't want to give it to just anyone.
I don't think that the Ancients as a race ever intended to pass on wormhole knowledge. I think that was all "Jack's" decision, 'cause he knew that his race was dying and might need aid from "lesser species" (who might still be on the rise) later on... and he'd just seen into the deepest depths of John's mind and knew he could be trusted. Naw, the sim wasn't a test to see if John was worthy... just to see how the average human would react to aliens wanting to share Earth.

[Owlman]

What I want to know is, once the Ancients knew that Earth was not the place for them, why did they continue with the simulation? It was pretty much clear once the humans kept D'Argo, Rygel, and Aeryn locked up that aliens would not be welcomed with open arms and allowed to co-habitate. Why keep John in the sim? Was it because he came through a wormhole and they decided to keep testing him? Just to see how smart he was?
And to me, it seemed that Aeryn was in on it a bit near the end. Was it what Jack said to her, or from before I can't tell. It's a mystery! :D

Don't we learn later (in "Unrealized Reality" I think), that the whole Ancients thing was bull, and it was really just a few aliens using Crichton to do there biding in the later Seasons, it wasn't about some big alien migration. IE their plan all along was to turn Crichton into the Neo of wormholes so they could use him, not so he could return home.

[pkgrl]

Don't we learn later (in "Unrealized Reality" I think), that the whole Ancients thing was bull, and it was really just a few aliens using Crichton to do there biding in the later Seasons, it wasn't about some big alien migration. IE their plan all along was to turn Crichton into the Neo of wormholes so they could use him, not so he could return home.
Hmmm. I'll listen to Einstein again, but that's not what I remember him saying. Sounded to me like he was kinda peeved that "Jack" had given John so much info to begin with.

Maybe I'll turn on the closed captioning. ;)

[stlscape]

<snip>In the American broadcast version, all Jack said was "Thank you, Aeryn Sun." Seemed to me that Aeryn was surprised by this because she had spoken to him in Sebacean and John's dad wouldn't have been able to understand her (at this point). I don't think he told her what was "really" going on, though.<snip>
Per the AHR script, when Aeryn speaks to Jack in Sebacean just before she walks out of the door, she tells him that John was right, they (J&A) can trust him (Jack). *That's* what he's saying thank you for.

[pkgrl]

Watched UR again and what Einstein said was that the Ancients (an altered version of Einstein's race) existed in "John's realm" to watch over others... not necessarily John specifically. John said they were "narcs", but Einstein never said that they were in "John's realm" to spy. When contact with the Ancients was lost, Einstein's people investigated by pulling Moya (which they thought would be a Pathfinder vessel --remember the beacon?) into a wormhole. When they found that none on board knew anything about wormholes, but all spoke of John Crichton, they released Moya so she would lead them to Crichton. It didn't sound like any of them actually intended to imbue John with any knowledge OR manipualte him... he wasn't important enough to them. ;)

Definately watch UR with the closed captioning ON! :D

[Spedoinkel]

Don't we learn later (in "Unrealized Reality" I think), that the whole Ancients thing was bull, and it was really just a few aliens using Crichton to do there biding in the later Seasons, it wasn't about some big alien migration. IE their plan all along was to turn Crichton into the Neo of wormholes so they could use him, not so he could return home.
I think you have mis inturrpreted Einstein.

[ralfschumacher]

This is good stuff. I just love reading this. I've only watched these ep's twice, once on TV and once DVD but now I really want to watch the whole of season 1 again. My seas two box will come today so maybe I'll watch seas 1 before it. This ep was really good cos I thought that he was really home and then obviously it turned out that it was just a creation of what was in his head or something.

[Dangermousie]

I never understood why Jack saying "thank you" was such a big deal. He could have been thanking her for taking care of his son, or because even though he did not understand the words, it was plain she was saying something nice to him. In retrospect, it's suspicious, but at that point in the sim, I don't think Aeryn would have picked up on this.

[Spedoinkel]

Ha ha Danger Mouse!

[Doc Holiday]

I agree they believe they are on Earth until taken away.