Straight Dope: Stark

[Ouroboros]

Ok it's been a long time since we've had a good Stark thread (have we ever had a good Stark thread) and coincidently enough, and thanks to the demons of laziness I battle with each and every day, also a long time since we've had a straight dope. Today however that eternal battle has been temporarily won with a vicious thumb to the eye followed by a low blow while the ref wasn't looking. So while the demons of laziness roll about on the mat clutching their impacted demonic unmentionables let us get to talking about Stark.

Now there are a few basic schools of thought I've been able to pin down on Stark from the very limited discussion I've seen about him. (I'm going to say I've actually seen some "very limited discussion" so it'll seem less pathetic when I just pull the vast majority of these observations directly out of my own ass to make my thread work properly.)

Version1: The harmless loon: A lot of people seem to think Stark is just a bit unhinged, kinda goofy but not really dangerous in any serious way. He might blow his top from time to time but for the most part he's pretty cute comic relief.

Version2: OMG Hannibal Lector!: I've also seen it suggested that Stark is really a LOT more dangerous than he appears and could quite conceivably murder the entire crew in a rage sparked over a glass of spilled orange juice and then masterbate furiously over their mangled remains.


I think is also goes without saying that the man has some serious creepiness to him on the romantic front.

Number 1 His first choice was the 800 year old bald plant woman.

Number 2 Despite the above he's totally got a sticky picture of Aeryn under his matress, you all know it.

Number 3 He's supposed to be a non coporeal being in a projected shell that's not really him so why does he...

-care what his "litte guy" thinks
-have a preference for one coperal gender or ANY coporeal gender
-have a little guy to begin with
-feel sexual attraction toward a being that has as much in common with him as I do with a flashlight (*Hint: I do not typically resemble a flashlight myself)
-find it impossible to replicate an entire face for himself
-not take the coperal form of a giant 2000 foot Gecko like creature and rain cold unblinking terror down upon us all


Oh crap the demons of laziness have collected their wits once more and are now attempting to hit my with my own championship belt! I must quickly make haste for a metal folding chair and scramble their brains with before it is to late!

Oh yeah and feel free to talk about Stark while I totally ruin these little bastards again...

[Darth Buddha]

This guy is powerful. More powerful than Zhaan, it would appear, as evidenced in The Locket...

ZHAAN: But, if I join spirits with you, your mind might overpower mine.

STARK: It is possible.

Remember, Zhaan bested Maldus with some help the first time, and with a distraction the second time. She wasn't AS powerful as Maldus, but clearly could play in his league. That is pretty damned powerful.

Zhaan also had the power to cause Rygel pain from the planet surface when he was onboard Moya, in orbit!

And Zhaan is tougher than Tahleen was, as evidenced in Rhapsody in Blue, and Tahleen was apparently capable of destroying John's mind from across the room with nothing more than her mind...

Tahleen: I will destroy your useless mind.

(Tahleen attempts to destroy Crichton, but Zhaan blocks her.)

Tahleen: How did you block him from me?

Zhaan: Unity also gifted me with a part of you, Tahleen. I am now a Pa'u of the tenth level, able to protect.

So Zhaan is tougher than, or at least can match, THAT... and she's afraid this guy will overwhelm her mind? GAAAAA!

Stark is also pretty scary.... as evidenced in the first episode of Liars, Guns, & Money...

STARK: I helped the deposit designer cross over to death. His last thoughts led me to these. They're genuine.

Crichton slowly approaches Stark from around the table, looking him very closely in the eyes.

CRICHTON: ( softly ) Did you kill him?

STARK: Not exactly.

NOT EXACTLY? NOT EXACTLY? What the FRELL DOES THAT MEAN! GAAAA!

I'm not clear on the physical being/non-corporeal being stuff, nor do I really get how he can be lust-boy when he's not all on or from this plane.

I also don't get how Scorpy managed to keep him locked up for a cycle or more. Although, Scorpy (or as is the case his Pre-Harvey Neural Clone - which apparently had the same abilities at that point)

ZHAAN: Concentrate on me.

Taking his face in her hands she rests her forehead against his. From the instant of contact, the Scorpius Clone takes control of the joining, causing Zhaan no inconsiderable pain.

SCORPI/JOHN: Hello, Delvian. Tenth Level Pa'u. Pity. A Twelfth could break this bond. Time to pray.

Zhaan struggles against the bond, but she cannot break away. The clone growls and she is flung backward.

So Scorpy is no slouch in this matter either... maybe that's how he kept Stark penned up, though how mere PeaceKeeper grunts were able to withstand him I do not know.

I personally think Stark would eat Maldus for lunch and steal his memories while crossing him over, though I don't have any DIRECT way to compare them. I'd suspect at the very least, he'd have less trouble with Maldus than Zhaan did.

So we've got the uber-powerful spiritual being who is crazier than a bedbug, who is lovesick, who can fixate on NON-SPIRITUAL women like Aeryn, and is quite willing to do something approaching killing somebody to cross them over and steal their memories.

Oh yeah, this guy is far from harmless!

[Chi27]

I don't think Stark is crazy enough to slaughter the whole crew over spilled juice, but I do think he's a bit of #2 and #1. I think he can be somewhat dangerous as he retains something of the person he crosses over and no doubt some of those folks are criminal.

I've also asked that question about why he has any interest in sexuality if he's supposedly a non-corporeal being, but in a projected (whatever that means) body. The again, maybe the answer lies in the fact he retains the sexuality of those that he crosses over. We know Stark is a voyeur and was eager to listen to J&A go at it. He also was appalled at Rygel's remark about his height puts him at castration level.

[labingi]

I like Chi27's idea that Stark retains impluses from those he's crossed over. That fits with his own statement that he absorbs their darkness.

I never got the impression, though, that Stark's body is *just* a shell, though I know he does talk about it that way on occasion (so do humans in some religious/philosophical traditions). He seems to have a very definite, single physical form. He can't escape from prison by just becoming energy. He's far from certain that he'll be able to recorporealize himself after he's dispersed. He comes from a "slave race" of people who presumably also can't just escape by becoming energy. So I figure he was born into a "humanoid" body, with all the usual sexual desires, etc., but with a strong energy component that can--in great need and with a bit of luck--be separated out from that body and used to reconstitute a new version of that body. If that's the case, I don't think it's strange that he'd be physically attracted to Zhaan, who has an attractive "humanoid" female body.

[scaperbuddy]

Stark is pretty powerful if he can cross beings over to the other side and he can resist the Aurora chair. He is definitly more powerful than Zhaan ever was. Of course he is not all powerful as he was not able to save Zhaan from death.

He gets scared at times because John was able to intimidate him with a pulse pistol once by threatening to shoot him after Stark insulted him in Liars, Guns and Money.

He's got some sort of powers that transend the universe as he was able to talk to Zhaan thru his mask once.

He is very crazy in the way he talks and is very possessive of his own personal space at times. For example in the cell with John He tells John my side your side etc.

[TalynLives]

Just like us all really :p

[Darth Buddha]

Yeah, just what the frell does "retain their darkness" mean? Could be what Chi27 is suggesting, could be MORE!

He does seem to be mortal, though... because he was very concerned at HOW he was to be executed in The Ugly Truth (I think that's the episode title). He was able to survive dispersal. He might not survive a pulse pistol or other conventional means of death.

[Clarsax]

I think Stark is mostly harmless. His life has been one nightmare after another and that has definitely messed with his mind, but I think his more compassionate, healing side is closer to what he's really like. If you think about it, he's been a slave all his life, he was tortured and cut off from all contact in a little cell for two years, he met the love of his life, tried to save her and then lost her and even felt her die, then he's treated like crap by everyone and finally is captured and tortured again for over a year. So yeah, you've got to expect he's going to have some mental problems.

But I think Stark means well. He always tries to do what he thinks is most helpful to another, but because he has such a close connection with the other side he won't see dying as the worst possible thing that can happen to a person. We've already seen from Die Me Dichotomy that if someone is really suffering and there seems no hope, he will put them out of thier misery on the idea that being dead is better for them than being where they are now. That may be what his "not exactly" was all about with the depository designer. Think about it, if you were going to build a shadow depository, would you want someone who knew the whole layout running free all over the universe? The one who hired him probably is the one who led to his death. More likely, Stark found the guy already dying painfully, and decided to help him with a quicker death.

Stark is energy under the surface, but I think it's only in part. He's more like part energy and part matter, and he is tied down to his physical body just as much as anyone else, except in special circumstances. He was never sure he could die and reform until it happened and even then he said he couldn't do it unless it was a certain kind of death. It seems more like he's existing in two places at once, and is both physical in the physical world and energy on another level where there isn't such matter. He has access to great power through the portion of him that is energy, but he can't always use it or control it. Instead I see it as more something that is just a part of what he is and he may be able to focus it for a few minutes to help the dying but he could no more alter it than another could stop breathing by holding his breath forever.

He is much like anyone else with the same needs and desires, but his form as energy gives him some knowledge and makes him able to see the other side better than an ordinary person. I think he's really a decent guy who's just had a bad life that's given him a lot of mental problems.

[scaperbuddy]

He is a nice guy in that he has given people good images or feelings when they die. He did help Gilina feel better before she died.

[Spedoinkel]

Well for Buddahs remarks on Stark's PHENOMINAL COSMIC POWERS! The itty bitty living space that is his "projected shell" seems cuase a need for close proximity. We haven't seen reach out with his mind and effect things at a distance. Though imprinting the images of TJ on his Mask was preety cool.

Then there is the Stark Zhann relations ship. That can be summed up in that "all forms of life seek companionship". Someone whom they can trust and confide in, and there is nothing to say this can't lead to a close emotional bond. I agree with labingi.

As for the castration remark. We know that Stark feel pain. He is screaming most of the time.

Stark was always one of my favorite characters...sort of. Paul is a great actor and brings so much to the character. He is great comic relief some times, but the rest of the time he scares me, because I see bits of myself in him. And I get frighted and sad when he feels the lose of a large number of people. Like when Scorpy had all the Baneks killed, and even more in Different Destinations. I makes one of my favorite eps so hard to watch.

I wouldn't call him harmless. He has lashed out before. In Suns and Lovers "I'll give you something to scream about" scene with Jool. And he can be impulsive. In Green Eyed Monster, Rygel had to knock him out, or tie him up I don't remeber. And in Meltdown almost getting everyone killed.

He is not harmless but niether is he homocidal enough to go on a killing spree. I'd keep an eye on him and make sure he eats his dried frog pills...um, sorry keeps calm.

[generic_screenname]

I had a pretty interesting thread about Stark and the Stark Avatar in John Quixote about a month ago, but the server crashed an it was lost. :(

Number 1 His first choice was the 800 year old bald plant woman.

Number 2 Despite the above he's totally got a sticky picture of Aeryn under his matress, you all know it.

Number 3 He's supposed to be a non coporeal being in a projected shell that's not really him so why does he...

-care what his "litte guy" thinks
-have a preference for one coperal gender or ANY coporeal gender
-have a little guy to begin with
-feel sexual attraction toward a being that has as much in common with him as I do with a flashlight (*Hint: I do not typically resemble a flashlight myself)
-find it impossible to replicate an entire face for himself
-not take the coperal form of a giant 2000 foot Gecko like creature and rain cold unblinking terror down upon us all

I'm pretty much just repeating what others have said, but I'm gonna do it anyway. Yeah.

I think a lot of those can be explained if you think of Stark not as a non-corporeal being in a projected shell, but as a male being with two forms. Like Optimus Prime. He's not just an asexual ball of light that can take the form of, say, a bucket of water.

So we have this guy that can both disperse and reconstitute himself, but not necessarily at will and I'd imagine there's some measure of pain involved. I'm only extrapolating here, but it does seem that way or he'd just disperse any time he wanted. Lifting his mask to help the dying cross over is a different story, because it's not complete dispersal, but I think if his mask was off for an extended period of time he might revert to his non-corporeal form (more on that theory later)

And since he spends the bulk of his time as a male humanoid, he is bond to seak out companionship for him and his "little friend." Zhaan was that companion, because they shared a bond on a spiritual level. They do have a lot in common, and he seemed more calm when Zhaan was around. I can relate to that. Plus she's hot for a bald plant lady.

As for Aeryn, well, maybe he's curious about John's attraction to her. Maybe he's jealous. Maybe he's a pervert. Maybe it's all or none of these. Maybe one day we'll get to find out. And maybe we'll find out if he's acually crazy or pretending or what. I think Stark is potentially very powerful, but I don't think he would ever intentionally hurt anyone. I do think that his mental stability is directly related to A: cycles of torture, B: the death of Zhaan and C: the remnants of some of the less desirable people he crossed over bubbling under the surface. But that one could be balanced out by crossing over a busload of nuns and orphans or something.

I think two other questions that where brought up could possibly be linked. Namely, "if Stark can reform himself, why can't he fix his face so he doesn't need the mask" and "how did Scorpius manage to keep him locked up?" Well, what if Scorpius (or some PK henchman) roughed him up and left him with a scar across his face. He'd need the mask to keep the light from leaking out of his face. We definitly need more Farscape, because I think a Stark origin story is in order.

[TalynLives]

In Green Eyed Monster, Rygel had to knock him out, or tie him up I don't remeber.

Actually it was the other way around, he had to tie Rygel up so that Rygel wouldn't force them to abandon Talyn and the crew.

And in Meltdown almost getting everyone killed.

If he hadn't acted they would have flown into the sun at the start of the episode and be killed straight away. Later he went close to the sun as well out of desire to help the woman who was trapped there and succeeded. A pretty good result there. He was also responsible of course for saving all their skins in "Green Eyed Monster".

[Spedoinkel]

Okay I was backwards on that bit.

I don't think crossing over nuns and orphans would be a good idea. Too many repressed feelings and emotions.

[Darth Buddha]

Maybe THAT'S why he's so... well...

lonely. :devil:

[generic_screenname]

Hopfully, when he was intimate with Zhaan, his little guy wore a mask too. Wouldn't want to get space herpes.

[Darth Buddha]

...space herpes.

Didn't we get to see those in "Ice Pirates"?

[generic_screenname]

yes. corny goddness.

[Darth Buddha]

Somebody stop me before I cross reference again!

[generic_screenname]

Um..stop, or I'll throw Bruce Vallanche's pudgy head at you!

[ChianaGray]

Err, I thought Stark was having some kind of 'experience' rather than sex like we know it. Like sharing it into Zhaan's unity. I think he could have regular sex but I didn't get an impression he does - or has at any rate, except for more spiritual levels.

For the rest of it I agree with allot of what everyone is saying and I think Stark is first a Banik, born Stykera - so he has this very special spiritual, noncorporal form but in his particular mortal body because he has to be born, and a Banik, to be on the physical plain of things as a Stykera.
I hope that made sense.