‘Ireland is lost island of Atlantis’

[grinner]

‘Ireland is lost island of Atlantis’
KEVIN SMITH

Posted online: Saturday, August 07, 2004 at 0146 hours IST

DUBLIN, AUGUST 6: Atlantis, the legendary island-nation over whose existence controversy has raged for thousands of years, was actually Ireland, according to a new theory by a Swedish scientist.

Atlantis, the Greek philosopher Plato wrote in 360 BC, was an island in the Atlantic Ocean where an advanced civilisation developed 11,500 years ago until it was hit by a natural disaster and sank.

Geographer Ulf Erlingsson, whose book — Atlantis from a Geographer’s Perspective: Mapping the Fairy Land — explaining his theory will be published next month, says the measurements and geography, of Atlantis as described by Plato match Ireland almost exactly. ‘‘I am amazed no one has come up with this before,’’ he said.

‘‘Like Atlantis, Ireland is 300 miles long, 200 miles wide. I’ve looked at geographical data from the rest of the world and of the 50 largest islands there is only one that has a plain in the middle — Ireland.’’ —(Reuters)link (http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=52598)

[Third EYe]

smoking too many green clovers I think

[who45]

Well this is certainly a different take...hhhmmmm..interesting.

[scrape_medic]

Hah!...I knew it

[stellar]

Reminds me of the Family Guy, when they looked at Ireland before the discovery of alcohol and it was a hugely advanced civilization. Then someone discovered whiskey and it turned into a huge barfight. Maybe that's what happened.

[LiLOrion]

Yeah, I think Family Guy was onto something there. :D

[TalynLives]

Scary that was exactly what I posted when someone mentioned it on another forum I view :)

By the way practically every country in the world has been identified as Atlantis so far. It's more of an honour for a country to be mentioned as "not Atlantis" :)

[Kurt_eh]

One wonders if he takes into account that sea level was several 10's of metres lower 11,500 years ago. Ireland would have been a lot larger than that at the time...

[Mickie]

I'm reading a rather fun book called "Uriel's machine (Christopher Knight & Robert Lomas). These authors think that Noah's flood was an actual, historical event caused by meteor strikes in the atlantic ocean in 3100 BC. They think that Ireland/Scottland was Atlantas as well, not due to its geography, but based on some astronomical descriptions in the dead sea scrolls that could only have come from that latitude and a really advanced stone observatory found in Maes Howe.

[Kurt_eh]

Here is one man's interpretation:

link (http://www.grisda.org/origins/52053.htm)

LOCAL CATASTROPHES,
OR A WORLDWIDE DELUGE?
L. James Gibson
Geoscience Research Institute
Origins 52:53-56 (2001).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The story of Noah and the flood has sparked intense interest and seemingly endless discussion for hundreds of years. The historical reality of a global deluge was accepted without question by most Christians until the beginning of the 19th century. Until the early 1800s, geological information was, more often than not, used as evidence of the biblical flood.

Belief in the traditional biblical account of the flood changed radically during the period from 1800 to 1850.1 As geologists explored the sedimentary record and debated its meaning, the flood gradually became reduced from a catastrophic global deluge responsible for the stratigraphic column to a more tranquil flood responsible for only a surficial layer of "diluvium." By about mid-century, the flood had been reduced to a local event that affected only humans. By the end of the century, it was even doubted that the flood affected all of humanity, and was restricted to the Mesopotamian Valley.2

Various factors were suggested as possible causes for a local flood. Rising sea level might have flooded the Mesopotamian Valley,3 or perhaps it was flooded by a tsunami generated by volcanic activity in the Mediterranean. Melting glaciers might have supplied water for a local flood.4 In an interesting repeat of history, new forms of these ideas have resurfaced recently, with some new twists.

The idea of inundation by rising sea level in the Persian Gulf has recently been revived by an international team of geologists.5 They attribute the rise in sea level to glacial melting, which is believed to have raised sea level more than 100 meters. As the Persian Gulf is only about 100 meters in depth, it would have been dry land during the height of the Ice Age. According to the proposal, it would have taken some 1000 years to fill the Persian Gulf, but the rising waters would have driven the inhabitants from their ancestral land and provided the basis for stories that were handed down through the generations. It is not clear how seriously this theory will be considered. The gradual rise of sea level seems difficult to reconcile with the catastrophic event described in Genesis.

Another flood theory has been suggested by Glen Morton.6 Morton proposes that the biblical flood occurred when the Mediterranean basin was catastrophically filled during the Pliocene, some five million years ago. According to the Mediterranean flood theory,7 the Miocene collision of Africa and Europe sealed off the Mediterranean basin. The basin eventually dried up, leaving a deposit of salt on the basin floor. Then, at the beginning of the Pliocene, the dam broke, and Atlantic Ocean water poured through the strait at Gibralter, cutting through the dam, and filling the Mediterranean in a hundred years or so. Morton's proposal is that the Mediterranean basin was populated by primitive humans in the form of erectines, or possibly australopithecines, and this accounts for the story told in Genesis. It is doubtful that this theory will become accepted, since australopithecines are not generally regarded as humans, and there is no evidence for the presence of either erectines or australopithecines in the area at the beginning of the Pliocene.

A more widely known flood theory was published in 1998 by William Ryan and Walter Pitman.8 Their theory is similar to that of Morton, except for the location and the timing. In their theory, the catastrophic filling occurs in the Black Sea, and occurred over seven thousand years ago. Because Ryan and Pitman have attracted considerable interest in their theory, presented in a video and a book written in a popular-style narrative, a more detailed review of their arguments follows.

In their book, Ryan and Pitman survey the history of flood exploration, beginning with the deciphering of cuneiform writing and ending with attempts to link the biblical flood to Woolley's discovery of a clay layer in the city of Ur.

The authors then lay out their own theory of a rapid inundation of the Black Sea basin when sea level breached the natural barrier separating the Black Sea basin from the Aegean Sea. They present evidence that the Black Sea was once a freshwater lake, much smaller than the present Sea. The argument is built from data collected from underwater currents, seafloor sediments, fossils, and paleomagnetism. Their conclusion is that about 7600 radiocarbon years ago, the lake was rapidly inundated with sea water, cutting a channel through the former barrier, and raising the level of the lake to that of the global ocean.

Archeological evidence, cultural legends, and considerable speculation is invoked to support a story of destruction of a lake-shore farming community due to sudden flooding of the Black Sea basin. The former residents migrated away from the Black Sea, scattering throughout Europe and southwestern Asia. Finally, the authors review the story they have created and compare it with ancient Mesopotamian flood legends.

I was struck by the story-telling ability of the authors — their book reads more like a novel than a scientific report. The personal stories of the authors add to the captivating writing style. The basic story line seems plausible. The Black Sea basin once held a freshwater lake, isolated from the sea by a narrow land barrier. The barrier was breached by the sea, presumably by rising sea level. Inflowing sea water cut through the barrier, creating the present connection between the Black Sea and the Mediterranean, and converting the lake into a brackish sea. This flood might well have made a lasting impression on any human inhabitants of the region. However, it is a long stretch to identify this event with the biblical flood.

Several features of this and other alternative flood scenarios are in conflict with the biblical flood description. Most obviously, the biblical flood ended, while the Persian Gulf, Mediterranean basin, and Black Sea basin each remain flooded. The biblical flood left no refuge for escape, and so killed all but eight of the human race. The other proposed flood locations are virtually surrounded by potential refuges, and the proposed floods would have killed at most a small proportion of the human population. The biblical ark landed in the mountains of Ararat, which is geographically distant from the Black Sea or the Mediterranean Sea. In the biblical story, the human population was given advance warning of the impending flood. An ark would be unnecessary to escape a local flood, since the population could simply migrate to a new
area.

It seems clear that catastrophic floods have occurred on a scale not seen in modern history,9 and their stories are interesting and informative. However, these local floods do not explain important features of the biblical flood.



LITERATURE CITED

1. Stiling RL. 1991. The diminishing deluge: Noah's flood in nineteenth-century American thought. Unpublished PhD Thesis. University of Wisconsin-Madison.
2. A local Mesopotamian Valley flood theory enjoyed a period of popularity resulting from discovery of a layer of clay in the city of Ur, but this was eventually shown to be too localized to be linked to the biblical story.
3. Stiling, p 152, citing: Smith JP. 1840. On the relation between the Holy Scripture and some parts of geological science. NY: D Appleton and Co.
4. Stiling, p 340, citing: Wright GF. 1889. The glacial period and Noah's deluge. Bibliotheca Sacra 46:466-474.
5. Teller JT, Glennie KW, Lancaster N, Singhvi AK. 2000. Noah's flood and its impact on the Persian Gulf region. Geological Society of America Abstracts with Program 32(7):A276. Annual Meeting of the Geological Society of America, 9-18 November 2000. Reno, Nevada.
6. (a) Morton GR. 1995. Foundation, fall and flood: a harmonization of Genesis and science. Dallas: DMD Publishing. See especially p 128-145; (b) Morton GR. 1997. The Mediterranean flood. Perspectives on Science and Christian Faith 49:238-251.
7. Hsü KJ. 1983. The Mediterranean was a desert: a voyage of the Glomar Challenger. Princeton NJ: Princeton University Press.
8. Ryan W, Pitman W. 1998, 2000. Noah's flood: the new scientific discoveries about the event that changed history. NY: Simon & Schuster.
9. Several prehistoric catastrophic floods have been identified. The most famous may be the Missoula Flood, for which an interesting history is given in: (a) Allen JE, Burns M, Sargent SC. 1986. Cataclysms on the Columbia. Portland, OR: Timber Press. Other examples are given in: (b) Barber DC, Dyke A, Hillaire-Marcel C, Jennings AE, Andrews JT, Kerwin MW, Bilodeau G, McNeely R, Southons J, Morehead MD, Gagnon JM. 1999. Forcing of the cold event of 8,200 years ago by catastrophic drainage of Laurentide lakes. Nature 40:344-348; (c) Baker VR, Benito G, Rudoy AN. 1993. Paleohydrology of Late Pleistocene superflooding, Altay Mountains, Siberia. Science 259:348-350. A more recent example is described in: (d) Worsley P. 1997. The 1996 volcanically induced glacial mega-flood in Iceland — cause and consequence. Geology Today 13:222-227.

[Kurt_eh]

I won't comment on any of the above theories, except to point out a few notes...

*Most of the mythologies/religions that formed in the mediterranian/black sea have a flood of some sort, from Egypt to Rome, to Christianity.
*there is archaeological evidence of flooded villages in the Black Sea.
*In the last 5 Million years, (ie. since humanity sprung up) sea level has fluctuated vastly due to the advance and retreat of the glaciers/ice ages.
*The Earth is presently in an interglacial period that began 15 000 years ago (right about when humanity started 'recording' history). Sea level was several 10's of metres lower. (cf: flooded cave paintings in France)

http://www.geosci.unc.edu/faculty/rogers/sealevel.gif
source (http://www.geosci.unc.edu/faculty/rogers/climate.html)

For more intel on sea-level change google: Vail Sea Level Curve

[mrswattsfresh]

Hey, now Ireland can't be Atlantis-I've seen that city for the last 4 friday nights, and it's totally not in Ireland.In fact, it seems to be in the Pegasus galaxy. Go figure. :)

[MrVesham]

Damn, if true. I was really pulling for Santorini.

[AgentSun]

man, who stole his lucky charms?

[scrape_medic]

The authors then lay out their own theory of a rapid inundation of the Black Sea basin when sea level breached the natural barrier separating the Black Sea basin from the Aegean Sea. They present evidence that the Black Sea was once a freshwater lake, much smaller than the present Sea. The argument is built from data collected from underwater currents, seafloor sediments, fossils, and paleomagnetism. Their conclusion is that about 7600 radiocarbon years ago, the lake was rapidly inundated with sea water, cutting a channel through the former barrier, and raising the level of the lake to that of the global ocean.
I have watched a TV program on this and admitedly it was a 'popular' program but that sounded to me as plausible a story to explain the flood as any. I have also seen the same or similar versions of this kind of event to explain Noah's flood and have heard that the 'tale' may be 1000 years older (Mesopotamian?) than the supposed time of Noah. What I liked about the explaination was the use a mixture of scientific fields to explain it, geology, geophysics, history archeology and mythology amongst many.

It seems that this approach may for the first time uncover the truth about many so called mythical stories, including Atlantis....and if it turns out to be Ireland, I for one will be laughing my socks of, (in the most respectful way of course).