So, I've got to watch a couple of Farscape episode, and...

[Pitry]

Oooh, me realy likes!

Episodes watched - Infinite Possibilities p.1 to Dog with Two Bones. (okay, that's more than a couple.)
First off, I must say it wasn't very hard to follow. Of course, I've been lurking here for a while so it might have had some affect on the matter... but I think I actually managed to get most of the stuff. I did have blunders such as "Tallin insane? What's the point if bringing that out of the blue?!" Only to see an episode later it prolly wasn't out of the blue... but I don't think these things hurt too badly.

So, second thing (er, I'll stop numbering.)
Wow, visual!. Farscape's strength is definitely on the visual side. Visual humour, visual metaphores, visual effects... :) I guess it's jsut beautiful to the eye. Even if I found the episode so-so, it usually had enough eye-candy concerning sets and effects to give a good sensation... which leads to the obvious question, what the hell was the budget of this show! Seems huge.

Writing... writing looks pretty good. I :bowdown: to David Kemper, honestly. (sigh, why didn't he offer more stories\actually wrote SG-1 episodes...) more on that later, tho. What I did have a problem with is a somewhat over-dramatisation of the scripts, as I've seen it. Yeah, I know, Farscape is a show high on emotions, relationships, etc. But I think they crossed the line between achieving the goal and over-doing it... In more than one episode I've seen what could have been a fantastic dramatic top achieved halfway to the episode, and then the drama kept on escalating... which is a shame, because it hurt the effectiveness of the initial - perfect - scene, and the episode as a whole. (What mainly comes to mind is the episode with Aeryn on the dead-people planet... Fractures? Or was that the one afterwards.... And Infinite Possibilities part 2. As for Infinite Possibilities 2, does anyone know why they chose to how Scorpius instead of John when he takes over John's body (beginning of the episode). I'm honestly intrigued, because it gives such a feeling of missing what could have been a very good dramatic scene.

I got a bit of a problem with Rygel, too, I guess. I love the idea of a Muppet as a main characer. But.. well, maybe it's jsut the episodes I've seen, but he seems to be mainly there for the comic relief. And it seems the actors sometimes are a bit too-well aware he's a muppet. I dunno, I got sometimes the feeling of "Claudia talking to the Muppet" rather than "Aeryn talking to Rygel". Could just be the episodes I've see, tho.

Humour as a whole, loved it. They're not taking themselves too seriously, it seemed, which is good, especially in a show that's so heavy on the drama.

Oh, yeah. I'm not going to mutter about all the episodes here... but is it indeed possible I've landed on the... er... 9\88 chance to get the best episode of the show? Revenging Angel was witty, funny, perfectly written, extremly cleverly done. Loved it from almsot the begnning to the end, every bit of it. Now I'm definitely going to try and get the entire show, if only to see if they ever topped that one :) Damn you, Farscape people, I have exams coming in a month and a half! :P

[sny]

Spoiler warnings, obviously.


I think if you had seen the series from the beginning, the depth of drama and emotion in those eps you saw wouldn't seem out of line at all. Particularly Aeryn's storyline. See, Aeryn has been nothing but a soldier, born and bred. The army was her family. It was the only family she knew. She knew nothing about making yourself vulnerable, or risking any emotional attachment. Wasn't allowed. She sees that as weakness, foolishness. Then, she gets unexpectedly ripped out of that environment, and thrown together with this man who is, really, pretty comfortable with his emotions. And he starts prying her out of that shell.

And we start to see that Miss Ubersoldier really did have some sneaky little emotions and vulnerabilities lurking back there all along. Especially in regards to her parents. She harbored, held onto, treasured, even, the idea that her mother had told her she was conceived in love with her father Talyn, not just as an ordered birth to fill the ranks. She's kept this in the back of her mind all this time. Held onto it as some small proof that she's worthy of love. Of being loved.

By the time she's on that planet, she has had every iota of emotional safety ripped away from her. She put herself on the line and risked thinking her mother and father must have loved her. Then her mother comes along and really wants to make her miserable. Hates her. Detests her. Wants her dead. Tells her she never loved her, that she's weak. Would that not rip anyone's heart out? She's also risked finally admitting she loves John. Or at least the John she's with. And just as she starts to get comfortable with risking that, he's ripped away from her, and she's thinking the other John is nothing but a fraudulent copy, not the real John Crichton.

In that episode, Aeryn's lost the only man she's ever completely and unreservedly loved. She's lost the idea that her father and mother loved one another and created her in love. She's lost the idea of her mother being proud of her, caring for her. She has lost everything that she has painstakingly earned in all the prior episodes. All her emotional progress has just been stripped away. She thinks she can't go back to John, she can't go back to the Peacekeepers, and she can't go back to the way things were. Ever. She has, literally, no place to go where she fits. She resolves by the end to never love again, because it's just too painful.

Oh, and as for Rygel. Trust me, he isn't just there for comic relief. There are episodes where he's every bit as formidable, dangerous and vulnerable as all the human characters. But I'll try not to spoil the eps by telling you how and when. Let's just say Kermit would never dream of doing some of the things Rygel does. Rygel even has his own less than successful love affair of sorts.

[eleuthera]

Sny - Beautifully stated. Infinite Possibilities part 2 is both one of my favorite eps and the one I have the hardest time watching.

[Pitry]

Thanks for the spoier warning, although having the first episodes watched at the end of season 3 makes it a bit pointless to try and avoid them :)

I did get a tad bit of the emotional part, mainly from Into the Lion's Den and also the end of The Choice (ah! that's the name of the ep.)
I think we're on a differnet wavelength here, tho... Now, while I do prefer the drama I watch to be more tongue-in-cheek, that wasn't the problem. I understood a bit of the importance of the drama, and also I understand the importance of it as a whole to the show and the nature of the show, and still really liked what I've seen.
What I meant in over-dramatic was... how can I put it.

Okay, The Choice has a beautiful, beautiful, I daresay near perfect scene, halfway into the middle. Aeryn sitting on the window, and the memory\ghost\combination of the two of John comes to her. Then you have a beautiful interchange between scenes where Aeryn kisses John and John kisses Aeryn. After this scene I was going "wow".
Thing is, after this scene, there's another John-Aeryn scene. It's a good scene, I'm sure. But it pales in comparisment to the earlier one, thus making itself look probably not as good as it was. It also gives a feeling of over-melodramatic. The writers reached the peak, as far as I felt, with the original scene. Having another one afterwards creates some sort of de-sensitisation of the entire episode, giving me the feeling of "oh, please", and all in all probably making me like the episode a lot less than I would have, say, if they were the other way around, the window scene near to last. That's what I meant about the drama - they reached a peak, a very strong, beautiful peak, but they just couldn't leave it alone at that, and had to add some more.

The Choice is the most blunt example I remember, I suspect I felt a bit like that also in Infinite Possibilities 2 but that episode's ending scene was very strong and kinda made up for it - because it was so dramatic. because it was the dramatic scene of the episode...
Hope I made myself more clear here..

As for Rygel, I'm glad to see they do take him seriuosly, and definitely waiting to watch those episodes :)

[Bargaintuan]

Rygel is not a Muppet!

Jim Henson's Creature Shop does a lot more than Muppets, and in fact the Hensons don't even own the Muppets anymore.

Aeryn tends not to talk to Rygel like she does the other characters because she doesn't really like him.

[rinnicbob]

You're right about Farscape's visuals. There's so much eye candy that even the lesser episodes have something great to look at. The set design and art direction are fantastic, the costumes are perfect, and the CGI is second to none.

I don't know that I agree with you entirely on the drama side. I've seen every ep' multiple times, and been on this and other 'Scape bboards for some time now, and I've never felt that any of the drama or dramatic tension was overblown, or overacted.

The Choice, however, is such a difficult episode to quantify, in that regard. I don't know how it could have been done better. How do you portray a woman, a soldier since birth, who's been indoctrinated that emotional attachments are tantamount to death, who's lost the only man she's ever really loved? Then to put that in the context of a planet where the supernatural is part of the everyday waking world, and it leads you down a very dark and difficult path.

No, Farscape's not hard to follow. But, it does take some thought, some effort. But, it's also very well worth it.

By the way, about the puppets. A lot of people confuse them with muppets, since this is a Henson TV production, but they're actually very sophisticated animatronic creations. Rygel and Pilot (my personal favorite), are astounding in how well they're puppeteered. They show, and evoke, emotions, and their voicing is so dead on perfect, after a time I've come to think of them as real characters.

Bargaintuan is right. Aeryn's interactions with Rygel are always a bit testy, because she considers him a self-absorbed coward, two things any soldier would detest.

Stick around, the fun is just beginning for ya! Once you get through the series from where you are, start over. There's so much in this series that you'll find you can pick up something new almost every time. And you may also find that certain ep's you may not have liked much at first get better after the second or third time around, and your perspectives on them can change. Sometimes a great deal!

[Pitry]

Actually - while I agree the set-design is amazing - in "visual" I meant more the entire visual "concept" of the show. Like all of the visual metaphores, the roller-coaster in Infinite Possibilities, the WW1 scenes in Into the Lion's Den, the Earth scenes in Dog with Two Bones, all of Revenging Angel.. ;) the writers of the show knew very well they're writing for television, and have used each and every benefit of the medium, ti would seem.

I don't know that I agree with you entirely on the drama side. I've seen every ep' multiple times, and been on this and other 'Scape bboards for some time now, and I've never felt that any of the drama or dramatic tension was overblown, or overacted.


Hmm... well, maybe it's jsut my personal taste. I must admit the dramatic scenes I did enjopy best were the ones in Revenging Angel, the Scorpius-John scenes near the tombstone. They had a lot of tongue-in-cheek in them... but they were also very deep and very, very strong. Maybe that's just my fvaourite type of drama ;)

By the way, about the puppets. A lot of people confuse them with muppets, since this is a Henson TV production, but they're actually very sophisticated animatronic creations. Rygel and Pilot (my personal favorite), are astounding in how well they're puppeteered. They show, and evoke, emotions, and their voicing is so dead on perfect, after a time I've come to think of them as real characters.


Hmm, I didn't even realise Pilot wasn't all CGI :)

Stick around, the fun is just beginning for ya! Once you get through the series from where you are, start over.

Ah, I'm starting over anyway, don't have the channel in my university flat, only at my parents' house! Holidays are sucha good thing... but I will defintiely stick around :)

[Lindsay White]

Hi Pitry! It's wonderful to hear from a new FARSCAPE fan! That Aeryn and John scene you loved so much in "The Choice" IS very special indeed! I would strongly suggest that you try to watch season one's "A Human Reaction," for an even better enjoyment of that scene! I hope you keep watching FARSCAPE and sharing your thought-provoking ideas!

[hypnotoad]

What I meant in over-dramatic was... how can I put it.

Okay, The Choice has a beautiful, beautiful, I daresay near perfect scene, halfway into the middle. Aeryn sitting on the window, and the memory\ghost\combination of the two of John comes to her. Then you have a beautiful interchange between scenes where Aeryn kisses John and John kisses Aeryn. After this scene I was going "wow".
Thing is, after this scene, there's another John-Aeryn scene. It's a good scene, I'm sure. But it pales in comparisment to the earlier one, thus making itself look probably not as good as it was. It also gives a feeling of over-melodramatic. The writers reached the peak, as far as I felt, with the original scene. Having another one afterwards creates some sort of de-sensitisation of the entire episode, giving me the feeling of "oh, please", and all in all probably making me like the episode a lot less than I would have, say, if they were the other way around, the window scene near to last. That's what I meant about the drama - they reached a peak, a very strong, beautiful peak, but they just couldn't leave it alone at that, and had to add some more.


I have the same issue with Heroes part 2 that you have with the Choice. The drama peaked when the audience finds out that Dr. Fraiser has been killed, but episode continues on with the obligatory military funeral and flag waving in front of the stargate.

Stargate probably works better when it emphasizes the comedy instead of the straight drama. Speaking of the comedic aspects of Stargate, is Daniel Jackson the equivalent of Kenny on South Park? His multiple deaths appear to be a running joke with the fans.

Sam: Oh my God, they’ve killed Daniel!

Jack: You bastards! ;)

[Pitry]

Hehem hey Lindsay White, as I said, I'm definitely planning on watching the entire show... ;)

I have the same issue with Heroes part 2 that you have with the Choice. The drama peaked when the audience finds out that Dr. Fraiser has been killed, but episode continues on with the obligatory military funeral and flag waving in front of the stargate.



LoL, I so had it coming, I know :)

Actually I agree with you about the Heroes funeral scene. I found the infirmary scene with Daniel and Bregmann by far the strongest in the episode.

Stargate probably works better when it emphasizes the comedy instead of the straight drama.



I think the strongest part of Stargate is exactly what I liked in Revenging Angel - maybe that's the reason I liked the episode so much, as I said in my previous posts. That tongue-in-cheek drama, the jokes that accompany a lot of the drama is a key factor in Stargate, and somethnig I really, really love - which is one of the things I find so apealing in SG-1 and Atlantis.
Actually, there are dramatic episodes and scenes, and some of them are some of the best in the show (a good example is actually my favourite, Meridian)... But they're usually not 100% serious 100% of the time.

Speaking of the comedic aspects of Stargate, is Daniel Jackson the equivalent of Kenny on South Park? His multiple deaths appear to be a running joke with the fans.

Sam: Oh my God, they’ve killed Daniel!

Jack: You bastards! ;)


teehee ;) Yes, it is.
(season 8 spoilers)



Not only most people's reaction after Reckoning 2 was "Daniel's dead. again.", but O'Neill's reaction in the next episode was "I'm not falling for it this time". And that's actually a very good example of what I said above, the three episodes (Reckoning 1-2-Threads) are very dramatic, even overlly a bit, but they have that Stargate humour none-the-less.

[ixchup]

I'm glad you got your toe wet in the Farscape universe but I'm sorry that you started out in Season 3 because the twinned John storyline is really really messed up--Moya!John is on a binge of bad luck and wormhole obsessing and TalynJohn and Aeryn are perfect which means that TalynJohn has to die. I think that John's story arc takes him from goofy wise-ass "tongue in cheek" astronaut to snarky, sarcastic, angry warrior during the seasons and thus so you get more drama then comedy in Season 3 than you do in earlier sesons.

You haven't really met Harvey so you couldn't really see where John morphed into his neural clone in the beginning of Icarus Abides. Harvey isn't nice although he does help John periodically, as you saw in Wolf in Sheep's Clothes. Harvey is not Scorpius.

I think the Choice is also a really difficult ep to jump into because Aeryn does not act like Aeryn. The point of the repeated visions of John in different "historic" roles (mostly from an ep in the first season called A Human Reaction that Aeryn remembers for really special reasons) is to show that Aeryn has been drinking extremely heavily and she is trying to "put John to bed" if you will--get him out of her mind. So you do have what you saw as a dramatic peak and then another. But isn't grief like a roller coaster? That last scene with Aeryn as the PK again looking backwards to John who is in the back of the scene--dismissing his ghost, is one of the most sad and amazing scenes in the ep. So, no I don't thnk that the show overdramatizes but it does take different tactics than classic theater is "supposed to"

Keep watching, Dog With Two Bones was my favorite ep of Season 3, although I also loved Revenging Angel.

By the way, go back and watch Seasons 1 and 2 before attempting Season 4. Just a suggestion.

[UTChick]

Hmm, I didn't even realise Pilot wasn't all CGI :)





None of Pilot is CGI!! He's an 8' foot animatronic creation. Many of the creatures on Farscape are animatronic and not CGI! Cool, ain't it!!??

Enjoy all the eps - there's plenty to discover & discuss!

[sny]

I can't think of any of the critters or aliens that were totally CGI, except for the "hound" on Elak. I'm pretty sure it was referred to as CGI in the commentary (at least in the attack shots), but best I recall, CGI was pretty much reserved for the various ships and planets. And beautiful CGI work it was, indeed. The "plunge" shot from the mini still gives me chills every time I think about it. It's amazing how they gave Moya such a real feeling of mass and weight.