New I.D. requirements to obtain Driver's License in US

[zahncrelnik]

This is going to be a real pain in the eema!!

details here:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0505110247may11,0,205478.story?coll=chi-news-hed

from www.chicagotribune.com:
Under the bill, Americans likely would face longer lines when seeking a
new or renewed driver's license.

DOCUMENTS

Applicants would probably need to have the following:

- Birth certificate

- Photo ID

- Social Security card

- Proof of residency, such as a utility bill

VALIDATION

The bill requires states to confirm the authenticity of the documents.

My driver's license IS my photo id....

[freckle]

if your only 17 how do you prove where you live if you dont pay the utility bill????
eh im thinking duh!!!

[zahncrelnik]

I thought of that too. What does your name on a utility bill prove?
I changed my name and it was the old name on the utility bills
for a couple of months -the utility company doesn't care as
long as you pay them.

[grinner]

if your only 17 how do you prove where you live if you dont pay the utility bill????
eh im thinking duh!!!
um... a bank statement that has a joint account with you and your parents? Your High School records...

[grinner]

This is going to be a real pain in the eema!!

details here:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0505110247may11,0,205478.story?coll=chi-news-hed



My driver's license IS my photo id....
Nope, it is heading the way that everyone will have to have a passport. You will soon need a passport to go to Canada. An employment ID will also work, as long as the ID contains pertinent information. A High School/College ID will also be accepted because those ID's now have quite a bit of information on them...

[BrowderChick]

I know even to get a post office box you have to have all those forms of ID. What ever you do...dont lose your SS card. :rolleyes:

[freckle]

i hate red tape.my sister has lived in the US since 1996.this year her and husband have to take a month off work take the kids out of school put dog in a kennel lock up house and spend $3000 travelling all the way back to the UK to get their visa renewed! they lived in scotland so they have to live in hotel in london while they wait for the documents coz they dont have any relatives down there and there no gaurantee theyll get it within 30 days!

[Selena]

What we need is new technology.

That way everyone would have retina scans and be fingerprinted. Then the cops could make you look into the scanner and have you place your thumb on an ID pad if they pulled you over. You would never have to say I lost my license and you'd only have to show documentation once - the first time you registered ... after that, it's just show up, look here - touch here - okay .... Next! And the plus side would be that you'd never have to have one of those demoralizing and ugly photos taken ever again. :aok:

[zahncrelnik]

papers, i'll need papers to get to my job???

But will we really be safer, Big Brother?

[Selena]

You should see the pile of papers one has to fill out to get a greencard. People should get brownie points and kudos just for having the patience to fill out the required documentation.
Yet, at the same time there are hard core criminals that have free reign in the country and the government seems to look the other way.

[grinner]

CLOSE THE BORDERS

[B Sharp]

You will soon need a passport to go to Canada.

I think a passport has been required to enter Canada by air since NAFTA; not sure about border crossing. I know that most borders where I live on the West Coast (and the on the bridge at Detroit) require a passport to return to the US; if you don't have one, then you'll probably get back in, but only after a major, major hassle.

[grinner]

I have crossed the Bridge and Tunnel in De-toilet (Detroit) at least a dozen times since NAFTA and 9-11 without ever needing a passport and returned to the States without any major hassles. I went to Canada for my brother's wedding in Vancouver and didn't need a passport. Heck, I can drive straight up to Sault Saint Marie in the UP today if I wanted to and not need a passport to get back into the States. However, by the end of the summer that will change.

[B Sharp]

This is going to be a real pain in the eema!!

I agree, but I can't see an alternative.

I wonder how a Social Security card proves anything? Mine is a little piece of paper with a signature on it that I wrote when I was sixteen...

Looks like identify (theft, proof, privacy, etc.) is going to be one of the biggest issues in this decade. Not sure I want to be retina scanned or fingerprinted everywhere I go...

[B Sharp]

I have crossed the Bridge and Tunnel in De-toilet (Detroit) at least a dozen times since NAFTA and 9-11 without ever needing a passport and returned to the States without any major hassles. I went to Canada for my brother's wedding in Vancouver and didn't need a passport. Heck, I can drive straight up to Sault Saint Marie in the UP today if I wanted to and not need a passport to get back into the States. However, by the end of the summer that will change.

wow, you must be special, grinner. Last year my business partner had to stay in the Toronto airport for 3 hours while a copy of her passport was faxed to the US authorities; she had her driver license, but that wasn't adequate for them.

In 2002, the nice Canadian folks manning the station on the bridge would also not let me and my family and our RV enter Canada without seeing all passports (or birth certificates), and w/o some major paperwork adequately filled out... may have been because I was going to work in a Canada for a year, or because we were in an RV or something...

or maybe I'm on the list of pinko-commie radicals somewhere, and they just like to hassle me.

[grinner]

Don't know. I went from the Detroit/Winsor border to the Buffalo crossing 2 summers ago and then back the same way without any trouble. Just showed them my Michigan Drivers license and answered some simple questions and was passed thru without any trouble.

[La Bomba]

I can verify that as well, grinner. I've made that same trip a dozen times, and the most I've ever been asked for is a Driver's liscence, and sometimes, not even that.

[LiLOrion]

I guess I'll need to go downtown to get my "real" birth certificate cause the one I have is just a copy (I think). Although I'm pretty sure they used that when I got my license for the first time.



I do believe in the coming months (or next year or two) you will also need passports to visit the islands (Jamaica, etc.) which you never needed before.

[zahncrelnik]

They had better accept a copy of the B.C., because I don't remove mine from the
safety deposit box at the bank anymore.
I think I will just go and get a passport anyway.
'Be prepared', thats a good motto.

[Zimtsternchen]

proof of residency???? I had to get a US license because they would not accept my German one. Take the test and everything. Now if I am not a resident, and can't use my own license (now dutch)- how am I gonna drive?? Gotta get one of those world ones I guess. ???

[JadedLegend3]

CLOSE THE BORDERS


What he said. ^

[zahncrelnik]

CLOSE THE BORDERS
What he said. ^

too late, the guy who thought up the new i.d. requirements already got in...

[grinner]

off wif 'is 'ead...

[RustySlinky]

I've never been outside the country myself (if you consider Canada part of the USA;))
but I hear that people can drive into Mexico for the day and come back, by just using their California Drivers License too.
Don't need a passport usually. :)

[Lord Loser]

Ahhh liberty... I remember thee well... *sniff* :cry2:

[eta_carinae]

My best friend gets the third degree every time she tries to cross the border from Canada to the US. She's currently waiting for all the paperwork to be done so she can finally come back after almost a year of waiting for her application (residency visa and green card) to be approved. I'm not going to say why I am convinced she is having so much trouble, cause I think it would violate the forum TOS.

ETA - when I went in to get my driver license 4 years ago I had to bring my social security card.

[soyarma]

Canada and the US have treaty law which makes it so you don't need a passport to go from one country to the other. My wife and I go back and forth all the time without one.

Closing the borders to this country is rather improbable since the borders are so large. Were we to really close our borders we would have to get Canada and Mexico to close theirs as well and fund them to do so.

The best defense is a strong offense, defensive posturing only gets you France at the beginning of WWII.

[who45]

They had better accept a copy of the B.C., because I don't remove mine from the
safety deposit box at the bank anymore.
I know in my state to get a drivers license they will not take a copy.

[Kathleen]

To renew your driver's license in Louisiana, you have to have your current driver's license, your social security card and a copy of any of your utility bills. I read this thinking it was going to be something HORRIBLY bad, but this is the norm already where I live.

:shrug: ... don't know why this is such a big deal.. :confused:

[who45]

I too head rumors about in the future needing a passport if you are traveling to Canada. I found this while looking to see if it's true..


U.S. Will Tighten Passport Rules
Canada, Mexico Borders to Be Affected by 2008

By John Mintz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, April 6, 2005; Page A01

Millions of Americans will be required to show passports when they reenter the United States from Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean by 2008 under new rules announced yesterday by the State and Homeland Security departments.

The new policy, designed to thwart terrorists from exploiting the relative ease of travel in North America, means that Americans who lack U.S. passports will have to obtain them to travel between the United States and neighboring nations. It also will require Mexicans and Canadians to present either passports or another official document to enter this country, with details to be determined.


Currently, U.S. citizens in most cases need to show only driver's licenses to reenter this country from Mexico and Canada, though officials said that since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, some officials at border crossings at times have asked for additional documents.

"We're asking people to think of travel in and out of the U.S. [in this hemisphere] in the same way they would travel to and from Europe," said Elaine K. Dezenski, deputy assistant secretary for border and transportation security at the Department of Homeland Security.

Some travel industry executives predicted that the initiative could lead to long lines for foreigners entering this country and could discourage U.S. youngsters from traveling on school trips, or spontaneously, to Canada and Mexico. Much smaller percentages of young people have passports than older people do, industry officials said.

An increasing amount of travel planning is being done only days or weeks before a vacation begins because of Americans' harried lifestyles, and the new rules could discourage U.S. citizens without passports from taking quick jaunts to Canada and Mexico, tourism officials said.

"For the last-minute traveler, this could be a problem," said Hank Phillips, president of the National Tour Association, which represents the tourism industry. "We're concerned about this, but we're taking a wait-and-see attitude, because security is a top priority."

Michael Palmer, executive director of the Student & Youth Travel Association, which represents tour operators, said yesterday that the new rules also could "drastically" reduce the number of Mexican and Canadian students who visit the United States.

"I can see the student travel business [from Canada into the United States] almost drying up," said Doug Ellison, who owns a large youth travel firm outside Ontario. The regulations also will discourage Canadian cross-border shoppers, he said. "If you don't want us to come, you're giving us a good reason not to," he said.

The changes, to be phased in over the next three years, were mandated by the intelligence reform law approved last December and have been expected for months.

Sixty million Americans have U.S. passports, and officials expect to issue 10 million more this year. More citizens are obtaining passports every year because of the perceived desirability of having citizenship documents, said Maura Harty, assistant secretary of state for consular affairs.

The new policy was needed to tighten security for travelers around the Western Hemisphere in part because of heightened concern that terrorists could smuggle equipment or operatives into the United States from neighboring countries, officials said. U.S. officials also want to reduce their reliance on state driver's licenses because of the ease of obtaining fraudulent licenses.

State and Homeland Security officials are distributing cards to U.S. and foreign travelers in this hemisphere, warning that "all travelers to and from the Americas, the Caribbean and Bermuda will soon be required to have a passport or other accepted document that establishes the bearer's identity and nationality to enter or reenter the United States."

The rule's first phase will go into effect Dec. 31, 2005, requiring all U.S. citizens traveling by air or sea to or from the Caribbean, as well as Central and South America, to have passports. The next phase, which will apply these rules to all air and sea travel to or from Mexico and Canada, will begin a year later.

The last phase, which will affect the most people by far, will take effect on Dec. 31, 2007, and will apply the requirement to all air, sea and land border crossings with Mexico and Canada.

Phillips of the National Tour Association predicted long lines at land border crossings in the first months after that, however thorough the planning, because the vast majority of the 1.1 million people entering the United States every day arrive by land.

U.S. officials said they will decide later whether to accept as valid entry documents a number of types of official papers used by some Mexicans and Canadians who cross into this country frequently. Among these are the border crossing card and the Secure Electronic Network for Travelers Rapid Inspection (SENTRI) card, given to some Mexicans; and other papers given to some Canadians under the Free and Secure Trade (FAST) and Nexus frequent-visitor programs. link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28188-2005Apr5.html)

[Judith]

Isn't closing the borders one of those politics issues that we don't talk about?

[grinner]

why?

[I-am-so-Johns-girl]

When I renewed my NJ driver's licence last July...I had to have my original birth certificate, NO COPY, and I also had to show my marriage licence even though my old one had my married name on it! SS card and proof of residency. It's crazy. :rolleyes:

[Col.Batguano]

lets hear it for the bureaucrats
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/slatster/cruel_smilies/raspberry.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/slatster/cruel_smilies/eaa0611a.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/slatster/cruel_smilies/aedc398a.gif

[Emeraldcity]

Nope, it is heading the way that everyone will have to have a passport. You will soon need a passport to go to Canada. An employment ID will also work, as long as the ID contains pertinent information. A High School/College ID will also be accepted because those ID's now have quite a bit of information on them...

Here in the Pacific Northwest (Washington) a passport is required now to get out of Canada.......you can get in with your driver's license, but you can't leave Canada without proof of citizenship, you know birth certificate, passport, etc. I mean how silly is that, they let you in, but won't let you out......sigh....... Just yesterday as a matter of fact, I got a call from a friend of mine and had to go over to his place and get his passport and Federal express it to him in Canada so he could come home. Main reason I just plain carry every where I travel these days.

[Emeraldcity]

I've never been outside the country myself (if you consider Canada part of the USA;))
but I hear that people can drive into Mexico for the day and come back, by just using their California Drivers License too.
Don't need a passport usually. :)

Not any more, effective March 1, 2005 you need your passport to hit Mexico for the day....... how many people are going to get caught with that one who are vactioning and don't know that..... sigh...... what a royal pain.

[kymom5613]

I grew up having to have documentation and more (Navy brat), so I'm used to a lot of paperwork. That having been said, I have no problem with showing proper ID for anything.
Also, for those of you that are worrying about whether copies are acceptable: I'm a notary...There are notaries usually working at your bank (probably where the safety deposit box is!). Take it out, ask the worker to make a certified copy for you, bingo bango, you have documentation that is not refutable. I do it all the time on wills, contracts, title transfers, etc. I certify that this is the person who they say they are, or I witness their signature, or I saw the original document and this is an unadulterated copy of said document.
Most states will also send a certified copy of your birth certificate (which you probably have, as the originals are usually kept by the state) if you request one either by the phone or over the internet. (I've also had to do this, as my birth cert is from Virginia, I'm in Kentucky and I needed one.)
Anyway, hope that I've provided some info...This is one of those details that I'm not going to sweat, as I don't feel quite that "Orwellian" about this issue. I've always felt that there should be a national driver's license - it's an incredible pain in the behind to move from Florida to Kentucky and go through the rigamarole at the DMV. Ours, luckily, is pretty well run and you're in and out in a relatively short time, but heck, it's still time out of your day and you have a certain amount of time to get it done. Otherwise Officer Friendly will gladly hand you tickets to the State Troopers' Ball!!!

[BaseLine]

What we need is new technology.

That way everyone would have retina scans and be fingerprinted. Then the cops could make you look into the scanner and have you place your thumb on an ID pad if they pulled you over. You would never have to say I lost my license and you'd only have to show documentation once - the first time you registered ... after that, it's just show up, look here - touch here - okay .... Next! And the plus side would be that you'd never have to have one of those demoralizing and ugly photos taken ever again. :aok:

The technology is already in place for non-Americans (as in continent). The United States government already has the fingerprints of both my index fingers and a retinal scan from my visit to the United States this month. I will also have to buy a new biometric passport this October if I want to visit the States again (or apply for a visa). Every citizen who is living in a country participating in the Visa Waiver Program has to do that. The funny thing is that US citizens can enter a European country without much hassle.

On a side note with relevance to this story: The Netherlands established a law starting January 1st that requires us to have a valid ID with us (drivers license, EU Identification card, passport, etc) at all times. Failure to show an ID results in a hefty fine and could lead to a visit to the police station. I think that's also the way the United States is heading.

[zahncrelnik]

we must see :eye: your papers...

[I-am-so-Johns-girl]

I grew up having to have documentation and more (Navy brat), so I'm used to a lot of paperwork. That having been said, I have no problem with showing proper ID for anything.
Also, for those of you that are worrying about whether copies are acceptable: I'm a notary...There are notaries usually working at your bank (probably where the safety deposit box is!). Take it out, ask the worker to make a certified copy for you, bingo bango, you have documentation that is not refutable. I do it all the time on wills, contracts, title transfers, etc. I certify that this is the person who they say they are, or I witness their signature, or I saw the original document and this is an unadulterated copy of said document.
Most states will also send a certified copy of your birth certificate (which you probably have, as the originals are usually kept by the state) if you request one either by the phone or over the internet. (I've also had to do this, as my birth cert is from Virginia, I'm in Kentucky and I needed one.)
Anyway, hope that I've provided some info...This is one of those details that I'm not going to sweat, as I don't feel quite that "Orwellian" about this issue. I've always felt that there should be a national driver's license - it's an incredible pain in the behind to move from Florida to Kentucky and go through the rigamarole at the DMV. Ours, luckily, is pretty well run and you're in and out in a relatively short time, but heck, it's still time out of your day and you have a certain amount of time to get it done. Otherwise Officer Friendly will gladly hand you tickets to the State Troopers' Ball!!!

:( Notarised (so?) copies don't work kyMom....I tried that. I also tried getting a certified copy of my birth certificate online and it was very expensive and took a long time to get. Luckily, my Dad had a certified copy and mailed it to me. Goddess help me if I ever lose it! :snicker:

[Emeraldcity]

On a side note with relevance to this story: The Netherlands established a law starting January 1st that requires us to have a valid ID with us (drivers license, EU Identification card, passport, etc) at all times. Failure to show an ID results in a hefty fine and could lead to a visit to the police station. I think that's also the way the United States is heading.

Actually you do have to do that in the US already. Just ask David Franklin the next time you see him at a con........he got stopped at one of the border check points coming back from San Diego last year and kept me on his cell phone while the first of many officers chided him for not carrying his passport and work visa with him. A US drivers license for a non US resident is not valid enough ID. It was a hassle for him and almost a trip to the police station.

God, my attitude these days........carry it all!!!!! ARGH!!!

[DRD 1812]

This is all we need. Soon enough they'll want to put microchips in our skin to locate us. Welcome to the United States--where privacy is getting smaller everyday. :rolleyes:

[zahncrelnik]

What about those born outside the U.S.
My stepfather (now deceased) was born
in a sod house out on the prairie in
Alberta, Canada (in 1913)---there were NO birth certificates!!!
They had to have his sister (who was 1 year older than him!)
swear in an afadivit where he was born and that he was
who he claimed to be-- for him to collect Social Security.
He lived in the US from the age of 7 or 9, and worked
(and paid into Soc Sec) since he was 14.
But what will people born outside the US or in places where
they don't (or didn't) issue birth certificates--what will they do?

[Spedoinkel]

There were a couple years in the mid 90s when the IRS didn't think I existed. They thought my mom had just made me up (Duh), just to get some sort of tax write off. Existance is pretty hard to prove even with a Birth Certificate. She had to show school records, meidcal and dental records, pictures, all this crazy stuff. I had to take a physical ("Well I'm poking at him with a needle and hitting flesh. But I'm still not certain this is a real boy.") Huge hassle.


Welcome to back to the US. Hopefully you have brought a book for the three month decontamination period, and lubrication for the five consecutive cavity searches. We are always glad to have you foriegn trash come visit our great perfect nation. If you were born in the US please pee in this cup, and be prepared for an addition two week application period in which we will reaclimate your brain chemistry to remove any of the non-American taint you may have picked up in your travels. Thank you again, and Go Cowboys!

[zahncrelnik]

Welcome to back to the US. Hopefully you have brought a book for the three month decontamination period, and lubrication for the five consecutive cavity searches. We are always glad to have you foriegn trash come visit our great perfect nation. If you were born in the US please pee in this cup, and be prepared for an addition two week application period in which we will reaclimate your brain chemistry to remove any of the non-American taint you may have picked up in your travels. Thank you again, and Go Cowboys!


Just don't try to pull this sh** on us (Americans) if we visit your country!

[Spedoinkel]

That is the perfect adendum.

[StephX]

Great, I'm not even sure where my birth certificate is, and, I don't have another picture ID other than my drivers license. I don't have a job other than being a stay at home mom for now.

[soyarma]

The complaint that the individual states have with the proposed legislation is not that they have to see these documents, but they have to actually verify each of them to determine they are authentic, accurate, etc... The federal gov't isn't going to pay for it and the states say this will cost them billions to implement.

Also, I have a question (I'm not interested in the politics of it, just the logistics). People are talking a lot about closing the borders. I don't exactly understand how this would be done. Does anyone know how it would be achieved?

[Spedoinkel]

Not successfully.

[soyarma]

LOL. That was my thought. I think it would just end up being a waste of time and money.

[Spedoinkel]

I think you hit the nail on the head...Unless they decided to erect a nation wide dome. But then people would just tunnel under.

[soyarma]

I'm glad to find someone who agrees with me, I was starting to think I was missing something.

[zahncrelnik]

I think 'close the borders' is just an expression, now days.
'Don't let anyone in', but Spedoinkel is right: it can't be done successfully.
People will find a way in.

[DRD 1812]

Yup, always have always will. I remember hearing about such a hassle my cousin had changing his Pennsylvania DL to a Jersey one. Phew! He had to come back to my house to get the proper identification.

[AgentSun]

to renew my license, i have to have a social security and a photo id...it's not an option. especially because i was born out of the country, my school requires a copy of my birth certificate.

these are documents that one should keep track of anyways. if you don't know where your passport is, you better find it. most identity theft occurs offline, in real life. silly how many people don't shop online because they think they have a bigger chance of getting their information stolen.

[JadeScape]

I traveled to Toronto, Canada 7 times in the last 2 1/2 years and it was required that you have a Passport.....and the one time my son went with me...I had to carry his BC, Passport and a letter from his father stating that he could go with me to prove I was not stealing my own son....lol