Should I go to Live 8?

[JadedLegend3]

I can't decide. There are good reasons for going, and good reasons for not going. It's very close and I could stay with my friends in the city so I wouldn't have to worry about parking, but I just can't decide.

So what do you guys say?

[AgentSun]

YES, GO TO LIVE 8! this is a historical event, go!!

[AyuRocks]

YEEEESSSSSS.

[Kurt_eh]

I think the real question is "who thinks JL3 and AYURocks should come to Westercon 58?"! ;) :D :innocent:

[AyuRocks]

;)

[janey_13]

1. I think you should go.

I think the real question is "who thinks JL3 and AYURocks should come to Westercon 58?"! ;) :D :innocent:

2. Hey! What about me!?! ;)

[Kurt_eh]

And Janey_13! ;)

[JadedLegend3]

Hey baby you pay my way and I'm there! :kotc:

[I-am-so-Johns-girl]

My only answer to you Jacqui is that I saw on the news that they are expecting 1,000,000 people and there will only be 440 Port-a-potties there. :rollin: Can you "hold it" that long? :P If you can, I say...GO!

Uh Kurt....you're getting greedy. :lol

[Kurt_eh]

A man can dream, can't he? :innocent:

[AgentSun]

eh, who needs to pee? just don't drink that much water.

[JadedLegend3]

haha I know. 440, huh? I heard only 400.

Plus they're expecting a million peeps and the parkway holds 400,000.

And it's going to be hot.

But Brad Pitt is cohosting. :thud:

[AgentSun]

that's worth EVERYTHING. just don't eat or drink for the whole night beforehand. it's okay.

i don't see any bad reasons for going. it's a concert and it's a festival, what are you expecting, valet parking?!

i had a friend who went to a festival and she came back really angry and when i asked her why, she went on a tirade on how it was too hot (an oversight by God, apparently), the bathrooms were dirty (oversight by Mr. Clean) and they charged too much for water.

NO DUH.

it's a concert! if you aren't willing to get sweaty, then just go home and listen to the radio or something. not saying you're going to complain or anything, i'm just saying i get frustrated at people who don't understand that they're going to get a little dirty when they go outside.

[I-am-so-Johns-girl]

A man can dream, can't he? :innocent:
Sure...if you're gonna dream....dream BIG! :aok:
You're so damn cute Kurt! :hug2:

[TalynLives]

and they charged too much for water.


If it was a hot day, the concert organizers should really be providing free water at least by the first aid tent. Whatever about comfort, the organizers have a responsibility towards the safety of the concertgoers. And that includes offering water to prevent severe dehydration and heatstroke.

[AgentSun]

i think the day she went it was like 80 but if you're in a crowd of like 20,000, you know? it'll be hot no matter what. i'm just saying that if you're going to go to a concert expecting to come out looking pristine, you're better off giving me the tickets and going home. i tend to wear one layer at concerts. if it's cold, too bad. generally it'll be hotter than it is colder at concerts. i wear cargo pants cause then i can carry things and i wear pants that i don't mind being muddy i never wear shorts at concerts. i wear boots or sneakers. never sandals.

i never walk out the door without a bra. ugggh that annoys me when girls wear the little tank tops with the shelf bra. if you're going crowd surfing, at least the bra protects you a bit from wandering hands.

someone should really let some people out there know about these things.

[JadedLegend3]

LOL I rarely wear a bra and I live in tanks with the shelf bra in them. To each her own. :D

[fiona-maria]

you should go, as it's a once in a lifetime kind of thing.

You will always kick yourself for the things you didn't do.

[LiLOrion]

Just dont body surf in the "mud" if anybody dumps the port-a-potties. :D

mmmm...Brad :love:

[Clarsax]

I say if it's something you really want to do, then go for it. If not, you may end up regretting missing your chance.

[AgentSun]

LOL I rarely wear a bra and I live in tanks with the shelf bra in them. To each her own.

yeah i can't do that. i just feel too free hahaha. i don't have big boobs either, i just can't do that. like right now i'm wearing a tank top with a bra underneath. i don't care whether my bra strap shows or not. i like my bra, i can show the straps off.

[JadedLegend3]

I hate the lines you see when you wear a bra under a thin shirt...and I refuse to wear anything but a padded bra when I wear one.

I like the free feeling. Goes with my hippie nature. :D

Hey, you still work for VS?

[AgentSun]

no i stopped afte the christmas break. i got this internship and i didn't want to get stuck with crappy hours (i'd work nights). i'd rather have a social life.

but if you get the t-shirt bras from VS, you don't get any lines.

[JadedLegend3]

See I have some of their cotton bras and I get the cut my boobs in half look which I hate, too.

[AgentSun]

it could be that you're just wearing the wrong size. one size in one brand doesn't mean it is the same everywhere else. in fact, sizes can even vary between collections at VS. if you're wearing VS push up bras, you go a size higher. if you're wearing plain satin Angels bras you might even try going a size lower since they're thinner.

i personally hate most cotton bras, doesn't matter the brand. i do have one VS cotton bra though. it's black and it's got a pink bow. when i saw it, it reminded me of a french maid uniform and i thought it was too twisted cause it's part of their 'Pink' collection that's aimed at teens and younger crowd...so that was kind of twisted and i had to have it.

[JadedLegend3]

...I've gotten the same size in the push up and the cotton bras and the cotton ones are too tight and the push ups gap sometimes. My breasts are so damn difficult! LOL

[AgentSun]

that they are!

come to think of it, i think mine are too.

[JadedLegend3]

:lol Maybe we should just start shopping at Frederick's! LOL

[AgentSun]

i bet fredericks would fit us perfectly.

[scrape_medic]

Yes you should go...silly question

[AgentSun]

now you've got me looking at frederick's, wondering if there's anything i should get!

[trubador]

Shouldn't this be in the woebegotten "Underwear" thread. :shrug:
:flee:

[AgentSun]

which one? there have been at least 3.

maybe someone wants to dig it up.

[TheBladeRoden]

Why didn't I stumble upon this thread earlier?

[I-am-so-Johns-girl]

Jacqui, I was discussing this with not-John this morning. :D He said that you must have a ticket to attend. The tickets don't cost anything but you must have one to get in. I don't know where you get them though. :shrug:

[freckle]

GO.
ITS A DISCRACE THAT IN THE 21ST CENTURY PEOPLE STILL DIE OF HUNGER.SHOW YOUR DISGUST AT THIS AND GO.

[JadedLegend3]

Jacqui, I was discussing this with not-John this morning. :D He said that you must have a ticket to attend. The tickets don't cost anything but you must have one to get in. I don't know where you get them though. :shrug:


That was a vicious rumor. :D You don't need a ticket to get in. At least that's what NBC 10 is saying.

[I-am-so-Johns-girl]

Cool! :aok:

[TalynLives]

That was a vicious rumor. You don't need a ticket to get in. At least that's what NBC 10 is saying.

Are you sure? I remember a big online raffle thing they had for tickets.

[JadedLegend3]

In the US there are no tickets, but I think I heard that over in Europe you need to have a ticket.

[TalynLives]

Ah that explains things. I live in Europe myself so it was a big raffle with free tickets for us.

Makes more sense from the point of view of crowd control I think.

[JadedLegend3]

Yes, it would be smart for us to have tickets, but this is in Philadelphia which never does anything smart. :lol

[stellar]

Do it... do it.

[AgentSun]

doooooooooooo it!

[trubador]

Yes, it would be smart for us to have tickets, but this is in Philadelphia which never does anything smart. :lol
:rollin::rollin::rollin:

[Twich]

You are such a crazy spaz. You forgot to mention that it's not just a million people. It's a million Philly-ans. That's like ten million...(insert noun here.)

And do me a favor...do not skip eating and drinking! We don't need you getting heat stroke! I don't care about the toilets...you wanna see nasty? Downtown ER. 'Nuff said.

[AgentSun]

i say you go. this is a once in a lifetime experience. think about it. Live Aid was in 1985! What if Geldorf doesn't get another good idea for another 20 years?!

[AgentSun]

WELL? are you going to go?

cause the votes are overwhelming. and if you want to go...you should leave now and get in line.

[I-am-so-Johns-girl]

Since JL3 didn't answer....she must have gone! :D

[scrape_medic]

She better have!

[AgentSun]

if she posts here during the concert and she's not there at the concert, i'm going to drive up there and smack her silly.

[scrape_medic]

:lol.....go easy on the girl AS....

[JadedLegend3]

Dude it's not like they're even collecting a dime. There is no place for donations. Not even the sale of food is going to charity. It's bullsh!t and I'm not going to be a part of it. When I found out they weren't raising money I decided not to go, and I'm glad I didn't.

I hope they get their point across but 99% of the people going (at least to the Philly one) are going to see the bands and don't give a rat's ass about the debt in Africa.

[TheBladeRoden]

An interesting turn of events...

[scrape_medic]

Its not about raising money for africa or any other place around the world in particular.....its about the G8 meeting in Edinburgh on the 7th July and letting the leaders of the eight richest countries in the world know that millions of people support ridding the third world of their debts, therefore allowing them to spend their own money on their own people rather than having to pay off impossible debts for eternity.

Its not about giving them a "quick fix" moneytary band aid........its about giving them a long term future.

Ita about raising awareness of the thousands of kids who die everyday because of poverty, malnutrician and treatable diseases.

You should read what its about on their site here (http://www.live8live.com/)

If you want to give money, set up a regular payment to a major charity.

Maybe YOU haven't been listening to the message, but some will, and some attitudes will change.

[JadedLegend3]

I know what it's about, I do watch the news. The point is, I watch the news and know that the nations are meeting soon to discuss cancelling Africa's debt but they're just going to rack up more debt unless we do something actually productive and provide them with education and medicine and food and such to help them take better care of themselves and provide for themselve better.

I am more than happy to donate money or send food or educational materials or whatever they need, but going to a rock concert that is doing nothing really to help the people of Africa is not worth it.

Cancelling the debt will only matter if they are given aid to start anew once the debt is gone.

ETA: I feel like my post sounds pissy and it's not meant to. :)

[AgentSun]

aww man you didn't go... ;(

scrape is right. the point was NEVER to raise money so you got misinformed when you decided not to go because nothing was being donated. that wasn't their point. their point was to raise awareness for the G8 summit, not to raise money.

sigh.

[JadedLegend3]

See my post above. I know what the thing was about.

How about all you people make the trip to go to one of the concerts and get off my case about it?

ETA: this post was meant to sound pissy.

[scrape_medic]

unless we do something actually productive and provide them with education and medicine and food and such to help them take better care of themselves and provide for themselve better.

Cancelling the debt will only matter if they are given aid to start anew once the debt is gone.

ETA: I feel like my post sounds pissy and it's not meant to. :)
Thats the whole point.......its not about us giving them anymore charity.....its about them being in a position to help themselves...

How about a world where each country is able to provide for themselves rather than relying on hand outs from the rest of us.

[AgentSun]

a lot of people out there don't even know what G8 is. people assume that the problems of the world should be solved by now but they forget that there are people out there who really don't have access to all the information some do. there are people in the US that don't understand the G8 and what it is. to some people in this country, african poverty is a background thought because there are issues they are facing -- and now that issue has been pushed to the forefront, whether anyone likes it or not and these people have to pay attention.

this concert was to help them understand in a coherant manner, via music and people telling them what it's about. otherwise, they wouldn't have ever thought 'hey, i'll research the G8 summit today'.

[JadedLegend3]

Trust me, nobody in Philly is thinking that now.

And what's so wrong with raising money AND awareness?

Just because I didn't attend because I don't think this is going to do anything does not mean I was misinformed.

[AgentSun]

one of the good examples is tsunami aid. after the tsunami, how many people donated money and food and materials? i did? how many people are doing that all the time, to this day? i know i can't.

this isn't about getting people to make a one-time donation or even one large donation, it's about making people care enough to do something about it whether it involves money or not. people don't care about money, ultimately...sure it's nice to donate but past that, people don't think twice a few months later. this concert is to raise enough awareness so that people CAN'T forget.

there isn't anything wrong with raising money and awareness...but the two don't always go hand in hand when it comes to America. see what i wrote above. a lot of people are more willing to give money rather than their time or energy or thought process. this concert wants to make people think about it and to act on it based on their thoughts and feelings, not just hand out a hundred dollars to feel better about themselves for a few months or to say to their friends, "yeah i went to live 8 and donated"...

[JadedLegend3]

So why don't they help educate these poor people and teach them to take better care of themselves physically, financially, etc? Cancelling their debt will not solve this problem. Once they cancel the debt will they have another concert to help raise money or gather supplies or raise money to send missionaries or whathaveyou over there? I think not.

[JadedLegend3]

Well this concert is a one time thing, by next week everyone will have moved on to the next cause. Sad, but true.

And I disagree about more people being willing to send money than give their time. At least in my area people donate their time quite a bit because we don't necessarily have the money to send. But I have a limited view on these things so you may be right about the vast majority of people, this is just my experience. :)

[scrape_medic]

See my post above. I know what the thing was about.

How about all you people make the trip to go to one of the concerts and get off my case about it?

ETA: this post was meant to sound pissy.

You asked if you should go...look at the poll results....overwhlemingly we thought you should.

This is a major worldwide event.... bringing nations together in one voice....yeah there will be people there who don't give a rats arse about poverty or kids who die alone in makeshift houses because their parents died of AIDS and no one would take them in and help them.

This isn't going to happen again next week, next year, maybe not again for the next twenty years.

If I could have gotten the day off, or gotten a ticket I would have loved to go...to stand with everyone else in the world, but alas my boss wouldn't give me the day off. (No surprise there really)

You had the chance to go......you will have to give us a bit of leaway if we think you blew the chance to be a part of it.

[AyuRocks]

Umm... This concert is a one time event as well.

And even if they didn't do donation stations (or the like), they couldn't give money from food sales or something for aid? That way the people wouldn't have gotten off just by donating money and the concert would still be doing something concrete to help people, as well as raising awareness.

You have to go to the concert to be a part of something? Doesn't that ruin the point of raising awareness :rolleyes:

[AgentSun]

many of them CAN'T teach themselves or provide for themselves. they're dying too fast to do anything about it. and if you're dying from AIDs, your thoughts probably don't go in line with 'i think i'll pick up a book today'. it's more like 'i wonder where i'm going to get food' or 'how am i going to get rid of this pain'. a lot of what is going on is to educate people who DO have the ability to finacially provide for these people, even a tiny bit, and ask them to give a rat's ass about people that are dying and are 10x more likely to die from both poverty and AIDs. it isn't just cancelling debt -- it's making the G8 understand that they shouldn't just sit on their bums and forget africa until the next summit comes up. that they have to do something because they've got a lot of power.

re: the concert...i think it's one of those movements. there are methods of making donations everywhere. people can donate to oxfam or red cross. they constantly make the point of the entire event donation-less. their point is, they want YOU to do something and it's not about donating at the concert.

[scrape_medic]

So why don't they help educate these poor people and teach them to take better care of themselves physically, financially, etc? Cancelling their debt will not solve this problem. Once they cancel the debt will they have another concert to help raise money or gather supplies or raise money to send missionaries or whathaveyou over there? I think not.
Thats a fairly patronising comment.....they can't educate themselves without our help?

The fact that they are even still here against a lot of the adversity that they face on a daily basis suggests they have got a bit more intelligence and skill and ability.

[JadedLegend3]

You asked if you should go...look at the poll results....overwhlemingly we thought you should.

This is a major worldwide event.... bringing nations together in one voice....yeah there will be people there who don't give a rats arse about poverty or kids who die alone in makeshift houses because their parents died of AIDS and no one would take them in and help them.

This isn't going to happen again next week, next year, maybe not again for the next twenty years.

If I could have gotten the day off, or gotten a ticket I would have loved to go...to stand with everyone else in the world, but alas my boss wouldn't give me the day off. (No surprise there really)

You had the chance to go......you will have to give us a bit of leaway if we think you blew the chance to be a part of it.


I see what you're saying, I really do. And I don't disagree what the point of this concert is, I just think the point should have been something slightly different.

And you'll have to give me a bit of leaway if I don't believe that going down to stand around with a million drunk Philadelphians is really going to change anything in the world. :)

[AgentSun]

one butterfly fluttering halfway around the world changes everything, according to chaos theory.

so one person among millions in philly can't change anything?

[JadedLegend3]

Thats a fairly patronising comment.....they can't educate themselves without our help?

The fact that they are even still here against a lot of the adversity that they face on a daily basis suggests they have got a bit more intelligence and skill and ability.


And so getting people to cancel their debt isn't patronizing? You're (the collective you not you specifically) the one saying they need help and it should be our (the finacially unburdened west's) responsibility to wipe away their debt and then leave them to fend for themselves and come back to us asking for more money?

Obviously they're not educated well enough to take care of themselves better, because like AS said so many are dying of AIDS and starvation and other diseases, but maybe if they were more educated about AIDS or were provided with better farming equipment or whatever they wouldn't have this problem.

[JadedLegend3]

one butterfly fluttering halfway around the world changes everything, according to chaos theory.

so one person among millions in philly can't change anything?


What's one person in Philly going to do if they aren't given the opportunity to give money or their time? Can one person in Philly make AIDS go away? Can one person in Philly make starvation go away? Can one person in Philly take away the debt?

[AgentSun]

i think what scrape means is that it's up to the western world to give the Africans a foot in the door. and through aid, help them get to the point where millions aren't dying every single day. they can't do it on their own, they have nothing to start with. it may be up to the others to help. but it's about 'help', not control. they should want to change their own minds and change their lifestyles (one of the biggest reasons why there is so much AIDs death is people not caring who they sleep with and not caring where the disease goes).

[scrape_medic]

NO I am saying that if we wipe their debts.....some of which are debts they acquired before even you mother was born.....they would have a good chance of not having to come back to us ( the financially unburdened west) to ask for more charity.

Please go look at the site I linked.

[AyuRocks]

I think that we all realize that an education system requires money, if the government is trying to pay off debts that they'll never be able to pay off, then they're not spending it on things that will benefit the people - education, food, a health care system, a infrastructure to get aid to the people of their country.

And it's not a patronizing comment to educate people, religion there for the longest time was teaching people that using condoms and birth control was wrong. That doesn't help anything. If you educate people then you can help control the spreading of AIDs in that manner. And as far as proverty, there are things as simple as teaching people how to properly care for work animals so that the can live longer and help them make money (Gambia Horse and Donkey Trust). It's not that these people are ignorant, it's a lot of that they're been misinformed, especially on the subject of AIDs. I don't think it's patronizing at all to say that education will help.

And yes, they will come for more money. That's largely what the G8 is about, not only debt relief but also givving money in the form of grants that won't have to be repaid as long as it goes to helping the people in specifc countries that it's granted to.

[JadedLegend3]

Why is it I am so uninformed? I watch the news three times a day. I read news websites everyday. I guess because I didn't go to some concert that I just have no idea about the affiars of the world.

And AS, you just said, "through aid." Well we're not giving aid, we're singing songs. Subtle difference.

I think what they are trying to do is awesome and I really hope it works. I just think they need to raise money too. Aid=money, any way you slice it.

[scrape_medic]

One person in Philly stands next to another person, who in turns stands next to another who in turns stands next to two more, and before you know it you have 1 million people standing together in Philly .....who stand with the 250 thousand in London this evening and the thousands in France, Italy, Japan, Russian.....

and before you know it you have a couple of millions of people standing together and letting tony blair, george bush and the other leaders of the G8 countries that there really are people out there who want to have a voice, who want them to do the right thing and give impoverished countries a right, a human right to provide for themselves.

If everyone thought the way you did this whole thing would be a big damp wet squib......luckily its not.

[AgentSun]

aid is not just through money. yes money resolves some issues and provides for things but money will run out unless people are motivated to act long-term, not just give money.

a lot of people complain about my generation, about how we don't care about anything. well there's Green Day, a band of my generation, telling people my age that it's important to care about Africa. somewhere, that changed someone. and that's worth it.

[JadedLegend3]

Oh well I'm glad my opinions are the ruin of mankind. :rolleyes:

[Owlman]

A lot of Africa's problems come from the fact that the US/UN made mercenaries in Africa illegal. Mercenary armies can keep the peace and prevent genocides far better than US or UN troops.

Aid doesn't mean a damn thing if you don't have the guns to back in up.

[scrape_medic]

Next time....don't ask

[AyuRocks]

How many people there actually care about this? I've been watching MTV since 12 and every time they've cut away to the audience and asked them why they were there, they shouted about bands and their friends - not about g8, not about africa, and not about political pressure.

Not that there aren't people there that care, but I question how many people tehre actually know what the concert is even about.

[JadedLegend3]

Next time....don't ask


I asked before I knew the truth.

[scrape_medic]

oh....it must have been a conspiracy then

[AgentSun]

MTV singles out specific people. they're under a lot of fire today due to their shoddy coverage ability. in fact, more people are watching on AOL because it doesn't censor and it doesn't give any crowd responses, only the artists and nelson mandela, who is great.

i'm not going to be naive and say that everyone is there for a cause. i know that it's good music and hell, i'd be haivng fun there too, and not because of african poverty. but it has changed my view a little bit about africa and i have learned a lot today. if i've learned a lot, imagine how much others have learned also.

my point is that if it's changed a few people and if it's motivated one or two people to act in ways that may change a lot of things later on down the road, it's worth it.

every little bit counts -- if we gave up because a few people weren't worth something, we wouldn't have a lot of things like civil rights or women's voting. cause a few people were changed to start those too.

[JadedLegend3]

WTF is your problem? Because I don't agree with how they went about it you have the right to be beligerent?

Scrape, if I've offended you that was not my intent. I was defending myself from those who were saying I had "better have gone" to the concert. I know AS was joking when she said it, but I knew if I posted that I didn't go I would get bitchslapped and look what's happened?

We all have our own opinions and mine has just as much credit as your's.

ETA: AS you posted too quick, this wasn't at you but to scrape. :)

[AgentSun]

it is a tough issue because geldof got a lot of heat for how he went about it. and i understand why some people have problems with live 8. but ultimately i think the heart is in the right place. it may have been carried off better, more here less there but the heart was in the right place and i just think that from my generation's standpoint, a lot of kids my age don't care. so if scott weiland or maroon 5 can get them to care even a little bit, maybe it'll snowball.

[AyuRocks]

Oh well I'm glad my opinions are the ruin of mankind. :rolleyes:

Damn you :rolleyes:

And yes, every person counts, so why the does it matter if she went to the concert or not as long as she's aware? Honestly.

[JadedLegend3]

it is a tough issue because geldof got a lot of heat for how he went about it. and i understand why some people have problems with live 8. but ultimately i think the heart is in the right place. it may have been carried off better, more here less there but the heart was in the right place and i just think that from my generation's standpoint, a lot of kids my age don't care. so if scott weiland or maroon 5 can get them to care even a little bit, maybe it'll snowball.


I've never said their hearts aren't in the right place, in fact I've said I think their intent is good. I just think they could go about it better.

ETA: I've learned more about G8 since the mention of this concert and that's good. But it's not like I can vote to change things there. I can write my senator, but it would be much more effective if I could send money to help educate. IMO.

[scrape_medic]

I only get offended by things that really matter.......like when I watch programs about how poverty is killing people, like when I meet the victims of conflict and poverty (through my work here in London, I have met many a refuge, victim of torture and people who have lifetime illnesses caused by conditions in the contries they came from).

These are the victims of poverty, whether directly or as a result of coruption, these are the people who suffer.

THAT offends me.

When you said you didn't want to be a part of this BS then it would on face value seem like you missed the whole point. That is a shame, but not offensive.

[JadedLegend3]

I didn't say I didn't want to be a part of G8. I never said that. I said I didn't want to be a part of a Live 8 concert.

[AyuRocks]

She meant the CONCERT. Because she didn't feel they were doing ENOUGH. NOT aid for Africa.

:rolleyes:

[scrape_medic]

Here (http://www.live8live.com/whattodo/index.shtml) is what you can do.

[Owlman]

Its not BS that they wrap up a huge money making scheme in the veil of a charity event?

AOL, MTV, and others are making assloads of money off of this, with none of it going to charity.

[JadedLegend3]

So how is signing a petition better than sending aid? Wait, here's a novel idea, how about we do both?

[AyuRocks]

Yeah, I would say that's BS, Owlman :hug:

Also, it's patronizing to say we should help to educate people in Africa? The highest literacy rate in Africa in 85% in Zimbabwe, the lowest is 13% in Niger. But they don't need any education.

[AgentSun]

I've never said their hearts aren't in the right place, in fact I've said I think their intent is good. I just think they could go about it better.

and i never said that you didn't say their hearts weren't in the right place. it was me saying that i thought their hearts were in the right place. please don't inform me of what i thought you said.

[JadedLegend3]

and i never said that you didn't say their hearts weren't in the right place. it was me saying that i thought their hearts were in the right place. please don't inform me of what i thought you said.


Once again with the not in response to you but to scrape. But thanks for yelling.

[AyuRocks]

Then stop calling her misinformed simply because she doesn't agree with you. You're allowed to have your opinion as long as other people are allowed to as well.

[scrape_medic]

She meant the CONCERT. Because she didn't feel they were doing ENOUGH. NOT aid for Africa.

:rolleyes:If they hadn't done this then we wouldn't even be having this conversation.......and if anyone else is reading this then more people are becoming aware of the argument both for and against wiping out third world debt.

Literacy rates are not a ruler of intelligence or the ability to become literate.......low literacy rates are indicative of the poverty that disallows education.

[AgentSun]

did i yell? i didn't yell at you for anything.

[AyuRocks]

No one said they were dumb and couldn't learn.

Education doesn't just mean books and math - it means educating about AIDS, Farming, to help themselves earn money and keep healthy (as Jacqui and I both have said)... what's wrong with that that's so incredibly patronizing?

[scrape_medic]

Because there are people within those countries who already know, but just need the chance to disemminate the information.....and they dont necessarily need us teaching them like her post implied

[AgentSun]

or rather, it's a hybrid. some people do know but don't have the methods of proliferating the helpful information and need help to make their knowledge widespread.

[JadedLegend3]

So I should have gone to a concert to show support instead of sending money to fund aid and relief workers and to help rebuild the infrastructure of these nations so they can get the word out?


ETA: Again, not meant to sound pissy.

[scrape_medic]

Yes

beacuse if the debt is wiped then they won't need your charity.

[AyuRocks]

Yeah, that was the entire point, to provide money for an education infrastructure..

If everyone in the world said "We support this" but did nothing to back it up, how would anything get done?

ETA: Dude, posted before the edit of the post above, so don't tell me I missed the point.

[AgentSun]

i could care less whether you went to the concert or not -- to each his own. but i think that it was important that the concert took place. it educated a lot of people who do have the power to act but who had no idea what any of it meant until elton john, bon jovi or sting got up to say something. keith urban (i think it was him) wore an anti-poverty shirt. how many of his fans are going to see that and be slightly motivated? maybe one. but that one person might commit time and energy long-term to helping the cause.

:shrug: i just think it was important it took place because some people, somewhere, got something out of it.

[scrape_medic]

Point missed again.(to Ayu's last comment):(...sorry girls but I got to go to bed....my boss wants me back in the morning..

Its been good, finally a decent discussion without offence I hope. I still think you should have gone J, but thats me..

One final point about how would one voice make a difference, You vote dont you? Thats one voice added to another one voice.

Night night, enjoy the rest of the concert.:)

ETA: one voice here added to 8000 voices and we got farscape back didn't we.

[AgentSun]

i sooo voted. it took a heck of a long time to get my absentee ballot and i have a funny story about that.

[AyuRocks]

Yes

beacuse if the debt is wiped then they won't need your charity.

Then why are they talking about grants for African countries at G8?

It was Blair's plan not only to eliminate the debt but to also provide more monetary aid in the form of grants that wouldn't have to be repaid as long as they were used for specific purposes.

[AgentSun]

well, i think it's constructive that we're civil about this, though i am disappointed we haven't had a Kelly Clarksonesque food fight yet. Lets just go trash some hotel rooms.

[scrape_medic]

Then why are they talking about grants for African countries at G8?

It was Blair's plan not only to eliminate the debt but to also provide more monetary aid in the form of grants that wouldn't have to be repaid as long as they were used for specific purposes.Exactly....its about trying to get the G8 to agree to help without strings attached..

Now I really am going to bed...:snore:

[AyuRocks]

Yeah, but why can't people donate if they choose to as well?

I realize that the concert isn't necessarily a bad thing because yeah, we wouldn't be talking about this right now.. but I don't like the idea of people making money from it without money going to hep the cause as well.

[Jul]

How bout we all take a step back for a couple of hours??? seems like you've all gotten overwrought on a few points here and it would be an interesting discussion if you all weren't yelling at each other ;)

eta: Go ahead and open up another thread, if you'd like, with the topic of the how to build awareness, feel free. Keep in mind the ban on partisan politics while you have your discussions please.