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scrape_medic
07-03-2005, 01:45 PM
Case you missed it, the biggest world wide concert took place yesterday, with a message to the G8 summit to be held in Edinburgh this week.

That message is to Make Poverty History.

Poverty kills one child every three seconds.

This is not just a problem belonging to Africa, but to many areas of the world.

Whilst concerts were held in London, Philadelphia, Paris, Berlin, Rome, Barrie,Tokyo, Johannesburg, Moscow and at the Eden Project in Cornwall (UK), 225,000 people marched through the streets of Edinburgh and formed the largest human white band around the city, (the white band being the symbol of the Make Povert History movement).

On the eve of the G8 summit, The Final Push will see a concert held at Murrayfield and the Long Walk to Justice will see the photos and petitions of people who have signed up to show support carried from Murrayfield to Gleneagles, the location of the summit.

Read more here (http://www.live8live.com/)

What the Make Poverty History group expect from the G8 summit have been set out in three key areas; MPH are calling for urgent and meaningful policy change on three critical and inextricably linked areas: trade, debt and aid.

1. Trade justice
• Fight for rules that ensure governments, particularly in poor countries, can choose the best solutions to end poverty and protect the environment. These will not always be free trade policies.
• End export subsidies that damage the livelihoods of poor rural communities around the world.
• Make laws that stop big business profiting at the expense of people and the
environment.

2. Drop the debt
• The unpayable debts of the world’s poorest countries should be cancelled in full, by fair and transparent means.

3. More and better aid
• Donors must now deliver at least $50 billion more in aid and set a binding timetable for spending 0.7% of national income on aid. Aid must also be made to work more effectively for poor people.

Make Poverty History Manefesto - low res pdf (http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/docs/manifesto.pdf)

The G8 is a meeting of the leaders of the worlds most powerful countries – the USA, Canada, Great Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and Russia, the eight countries represented by concerts on saturday. This year they meet from 6th – 9th July in Gleneagles with Britain’s Prime Minister, Tony Blair hosting the summit.

This movement is a reaction to the promises made to halve global poverty by 2015, a target which it would seem will not be met.

Your views please, keep them respectful and moderately intelligent. Do you think its possible to end global poverty, do you think it is possible to see a world where all children can go to fee free schools, get health care where and when they need it, and have the expectations of employment or a sustainable way of life?

If you are interested, you can find out how to add your voice to these events here (http://www.live8live.com/whattodo/index.shtml)

Jul
07-03-2005, 02:07 PM
and just an admin reminder here, before you get started on your discussions, please remember that partisan political discussion is not allowed on the board.

scrape_medic
07-03-2005, 02:08 PM
Thank you Jul, I knew I left something out:lol

Jul
07-03-2005, 02:09 PM
no problem ;)

Pk_Ranger
07-03-2005, 02:47 PM
I just want to say one thing, while I applaud the purpose of live 8, I find it quite ironic the purpose of live 8, but the preformers are recieving 12,000 dollar gift packages for preforming. Until I see some of those preformers donate some of their own money to the cause, I do not want to hear anything about it. That stays within the non-partison political discussion right?

scrape_medic
07-03-2005, 02:54 PM
I take your point, and though its a little off the topic about global poverty, $12,000? Okay assuming that is true, it would probably cost them something like that to fly the atlantic first class. So in reality that is not really a great deal of money for performers that would normally expect to make closer to a million for one performance. So in a way they have donated, by performing for a damn site less than what they would normally expect to earn.

The event however is not about another rush to raise money from donations by the public. Its about raising awareness of the plight of the millions of people who live in poverty, and about asking the leaders of the most powerful countries to address the issue of global poverty in a constructive, achievable and sustainable way.

Scaper_S
07-03-2005, 03:03 PM
I just want to say one thing, while I applaud the purpose of live 8, I find it quite ironic the purpose of live 8, but the preformers are recieving 12,000 dollar gift packages for preforming. Until I see some of those preformers donate some of their own money to the cause, I do not want to hear anything about it. That stays within the non-partison political discussion right?
I'm not sure what partisan even means (I'm not really a lecturer) however I somewhat agree with Pk_Ranger. The irony of the collective fortunes (see the Times Rich list) of the performers being enough to clear probably the entire debt and/or reduce the poverty gap seems completely lost of Geldoff & co. In addition to that, I heard only one person - a charity worker - mention that until the weak and corrupt governments are dealt with nothing will change. I've been saying that for years. No matter how much money is pumped into the affected countries, nothing will change until there are good governments in place with strong leadership. Whilst its good that the worlds richest countries are recognising a problem, the solution needs to be far more than just throwing money at it.

scrape_medic
07-03-2005, 03:17 PM
The irony of the collective fortunes (see the Times Rich list) of the performers being enough to clear probably the entire debt and/or reduce the poverty gap seems completely lost of Geldoff & co

I would have checked the times rich list but its subscription only...:rolleyes: However where did you get that figure from.

The world's most impoverished countries are forced to pay over £30 million EVERY DAY to the rich world in debt repayments, while poverty kills millions of their people.
source (http://www.jubileedebtcampaign.org.uk/)

Madonna and Guy Ritchie rank 208th overall with £235m
source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4405379.stm)

so madonna could make the payments for 8 days before she goes broke.

scrape_medic
07-03-2005, 03:22 PM
Some figures for you.

Debt burden

Total external debt of low-income countries -$523 billion
Total debt service being paid every day by low-income countries -$100 million
Africa’s total external debt -approx $300 billion
Low-income countries needing total debt cancellation to meet MDGs - -At least 62
For every $1 received in grant aid, low income countries pay: -$2.30 in debt service
Many African countries spend more on debt than either health or education. (Eg Cameroon, Ethiopia, Gambia, Guinea, Madagascar, Malawi, Mauritania, Senegal, Uganda and Zambia all spent more on debt than health in 2002 (latest figures))

source (http://www.jubileedebtcampaign.org.uk/?lid=247)

Scaper_S
07-03-2005, 03:43 PM
I quoted no figures, but the times rich list shows lists of many fortunes of worldwide business people and celebrities many of whom have promoted 'make poverty history'. Add up those fortunes and the total runs into tens of billions. Yes it's good to raise awareness, but the click advert was more beneficial to me than a few concerts. And I'm still interested to know how they are going to solve the problem of the corrupt and weak governments (e.g. uganda once received £30 million in aid which was spent on an airliner (that was featured on GMTV and came from a Ugandan minister who refused to discuss 'such blunders' as he called it). That should be the first thing they do otherwise the poverty cycle will be neverending. Also, what about poverty within the richest nations? Even in the UK, we have people living in and dying in extreme poverty.

Good to keep up the discussion though Scrape - I think we all recognise the problem, but the long-term solution is the hard part. Couple with poverty the pollution we cause in the western world which affects the climate in much of the developing world and we have a double problem.

(I'll get off my soap-box now).

scrape_medic
07-03-2005, 03:51 PM
It is sadly true that kids in this country die from the effects of poverty so yeah, maybe we should start in our own backyard.

You bring up the issue that has been many times quoted, of corruption. And that is a serious issue, that area is covered by some of the strings that have already been attached to debt relief and aid programs. Obviously there would be many problems guarenteeing that the additional funds, whether from aid or from debt relief, is used where is shoud be.

Two things, this last week in South Africa, a former high ranking government minister was arrested on corrruption charges. Things can change, internal security can find a way to deal with corruption. Its a small step, but needless to say a step in the right direction. It also demonstrates that the more stable South Africa becomes, the better able it is to deal with internal corruption issues.

Secondly, should the population of a country with corrupt leaders be condemned to poverty for that one reason alone?

DRD 1812
07-03-2005, 05:28 PM
I guess the whole awareness thing can count. The first one contributed to raising money. But that can only go so far. It'll get the eyes of the G8 I suppose. It's not us who always can make the changes.

Lord Loser
07-03-2005, 06:07 PM
Secondly, should the population of a country with corrupt leaders be condemned to poverty for that one reason alone?Yes, because it's the leaders that have condemned them to poverty. To paraphrase P.J. O'rourke -- God creates shortages, governments create famine.

scrape_medic
07-03-2005, 06:37 PM
Just like that LL....they were born in the wrong country so tough.

Maybe you want to expand on that statement a little, in your own words.

waltersgirl
07-03-2005, 07:01 PM
i closed this thread after reading LL's reply.