Katrina's Coming!!

[Ka D'Argo]

Well My town is going to be run-over by Tropical Storm Katrina in about a day. According to news reports it should make landfall on our opposite coast by late tonight. And the projected path is right over my city. So luckly it isn't supposed to be a hurricane until it hits the gulf on Sunday but still its a tropical storm. I'm not too worried though, been through worse than this last summer ;) .

The projected path (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7845030)


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9063708/
________
Club Royal Condominium Pattaya (http://pattayaluxurycondos.com)

[scrape_medic]

Ooh no..double whammy..

[mfa96]

As it moves right now, the center will be over my house when it hits land (I am in north Broward county).

We're already getting squalls coming through.

[Ka D'Argo]

Yeah we are already getting heavy wind everywhere.

mfa96 you guys be careful. Even though this is just a tropical storm its still nothing to mess wtih. You guys will be in my prayers. See you on the other side of the storm eh?
________
WEB SHOWS (http://livesexwebshows.com/)

[mfa96]

They are saing the slow down in movement will let it gather strength and become a hurricane before it hits land.

We'll be fine- just cooped up for a couple of days. Time to break out the DVD's and books...

Stay safe everyone in the path.

[Ka D'Argo]

I hate it how these storms always come during a weekend!!! every time. So this weekend will probably be the same, staying at home watching dvds, reading books. Hurricanes suck. But i am used to them now so no biggide Be safe everyone.
________
Kyra18 (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/Kyra18/)

[Boron]

I hate it how these storms always come during a weekend!!! every time. So this weekend will probably be the same, staying at home watching dvds, reading books. Hurricanes suck. But i am used to them now so no biggide Be safe everyone.

Ka D'Argo!!! Hurricanes don't suck, far from it, man!! They BLOW!!!!

[mfa96]

It is now officially a hurricane.

[Ka D'Argo]

Ka D'Argo!!! Hurricanes don't suck, far from it, man!! They BLOW!!!!
:lol3: hehehehehe...so true...my mistake.


It is now officially a hurricane.

oh man, well i'll be feeling it in a about a day. a hurricane on my b-day i can't believe it. oh well, ironically i was born during a hurricane, or is that coincidentally? anyways be careful everyone in the path,
________
TrickyAss (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/TrickyAss)

[cybergal]

The bad thing about it slowing down is not just about it building up in strength, but anyone on the rainy side of it will get continous fainfall, therefore total ground saturation and flooding in places where is never floods.

We experienced that a few years ago with Tropical Storm Allison. :umbrella: Houston had some of the worst flooding ever in it's history.

So be careful out there! :boat:

[arthurfrdent]

well, now we know where 'Trinamic's been lately... sunning herself in the so. atlantic... :rollin: Stay safe you'ins, and everyone in FL.

[mfa96]

You know, it's kinda windy out...


They say the center should be onshore in a couple of hours, and then the back half is supposed to be worse than what we are getting now. There are whitecaps on the lake out my window. :boat:

[mycattoldme]

well, now we know where 'Trinamic's been lately... sunning herself in the so. atlantic... :rollin: Stay safe you'ins, and everyone in FL.


:lol: I thought this thread was about Trinamic when I first saw it... :D

Stay safe all!

[zahncrelnik]

batten the hatches, haul in the yardarms, or whatever....
lock the doors, board up the windows.
Be safe Ka D'Argo! Be safe mfa96!
I will be thinking of you in the next few days.
Good thoughts to all who live in Katrina's path. :meditate:

[mfa96]

Thanks Zahn- I'm still here, and so far, still have power. It jogged south, which has moved some of the heavier stuff away from me, but it is still supposed to wind around and there may be heavier stuff heading back this way. They are saying about 400,000 people are out of power in he sstate. We have a few trees down and crap scattered all over, but so far so good (at least for me).

I am thinking about popping something into the DVD player- maybe Twister, or Singin In The Rain.... :D

[JadeScape]

Stay safe everyone in the path and in FL....:hug:

[Ka D'Argo]

It is super windy here right now. I was gonna take the interstate to work today but i decided to stay on the roads. my car was being jerked every now and then...freaky

Hows everyone doing?
________
Live sex (http://livesexwebshows.com/)

[mfa96]

I'm fine. Still have power (obviously), and it's cloudy but calm out. In Miami-Dade and Broward county there are over 1 million people without power (according to the TV).

We got lucky where I am; the storm was heading straight for us, and then just started going south, away from us, and right into the same area that was hit by Andrew, almost 13 years to the day.

Anyone else?

[Clarsax]

stay safe everyone. :hug:

[I-am-so-Johns-girl]

How's everyone doing down there??? :eek:

[scrape_medic]

but it ain't over..:eek:

[Owlman]

I really hope she doesn't move a few hundred miles to the west!

[I-am-so-Johns-girl]

but it ain't over..:eek:
\Yeah....I know scrape. :eek: All of my family lives in New Orleans! Frell! :(

[Digital>X<Anarchist]

Got real lucky down here in Boynton Beach. No real damage.
No word yet on our Key West property.

If your in N.O. GET OUT NOW!

[scrape_medic]

000
WTNT32 KNHC 281443
TCPAT2
BULLETIN
HURRICANE KATRINA ADVISORY NUMBER 23
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
10 AM CDT SUN AUG 28 2005

...POTENTIALLY CATASTROPHIC HURRICANE KATRINA...EVEN
STRONGER...HEADED FOR THE NORTHERN GULF COAST...

A HURRICANE WARNING IS IN EFFECT FOR THE NORTH CENTRAL GULF COAST
FROM MORGAN CITY LOUISIANA EASTWARD TO THE ALABAMA/FLORIDA
BORDER...INCLUDING THE CITY OF NEW ORLEANS AND LAKE PONTCHARTRAIN.
A HURRICANE WARNING MEANS THAT HURRICANE CONDITIONS ARE EXPECTED
WITHIN THE WARNING AREA WITHIN THE NEXT 24 HOURS. PREPARATIONS TO
PROTECT LIFE AND PROPERTY SHOULD BE RUSHED TO COMPLETION

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/refresh/MIATCPAT2+shtml/281443.shtml?

[mfa96]

Winds are up to 175mph ! :eek:

Stay safe anyone who's in the path, and by all means, if you can, get out of there!

[Owlman]

It still seems to be going west still. :eek:

Its not that I am wishing this on anyone, but I wish this damn thing would turn north already!

[Emeraldcity]

The thing is moving so slowly! I hope it at least speeds up a bit so it doesn't end up stalling over New Orleans....... these make me so nervous!

Stay safe everyone! :D

[I-am-so-Johns-girl]

Got a call in the middle of the night from my family....they have gone to Memphis, TN to ride out this monster. *Big sigh*

[JadedLegend3]

:hug: Girlie :hug: Glad your fam is safe.

[samati75]

Family in Slidell - staying. actaully it's my son's great aunt.
Friend in Biloxi, her parents in Slidell - already in Vicksburg - yeah!
Mom in Gulfport - staying
Sister is Crestview, FL (panhandle) - staying alone w/ her kidlet - hubby in USAF already left to take his C-130 somewhere. Butthead. It's raining here in Orlando.

[stellar]

I'm about an hour north of NO. I just finished moving all my outside stuff inside. We're supposed to get 70mph winds in Baton Rouge, but everybody save your good vibes for New Orleans.

Hope everyone gets out, stays safe and has a city to come back to.

I hope I don't lose power before I get to see Rome on HBO.

Peace out.

[stellar]

New Orleans National Weather Service Announcement (http://weather.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/iwszone?Sites=:laz062)

Excerpted, excuse all caps.

A MOST POWERFUL HURRICANE WITH UNPRECEDENTED
STRENGTH...RIVALING THE INTENSITY OF HURRICANE CAMILLE OF 1969.

MOST OF THE AREA WILL BE UNINHABITABLE FOR WEEKS...PERHAPS LONGER. AT
LEAST ONE HALF OF WELL CONSTRUCTED HOMES WILL HAVE ROOF AND WALL
FAILURE. ALL GABLED ROOFS WILL FAIL...LEAVING THOSE HOMES SEVERELY
DAMAGED OR DESTROYED.

THE MAJORITY OF INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS WILL BECOME NON FUNCTIONAL.
PARTIAL TO COMPLETE WALL AND ROOF FAILURE IS EXPECTED. ALL WOOD
FRAMED LOW RISING APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL BE DESTROYED. CONCRETE
BLOCK LOW RISE APARTMENTS WILL SUSTAIN MAJOR DAMAGE...INCLUDING SOME
WALL AND ROOF FAILURE.

HIGH RISE OFFICE AND APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL SWAY DANGEROUSLY...A
FEW TO THE POINT OF TOTAL COLLAPSE. ALL WINDOWS WILL BLOW OUT.

AIRBORNE DEBRIS WILL BE WIDESPREAD...AND MAY INCLUDE HEAVY ITEMS SUCH
AS HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES AND EVEN LIGHT VEHICLES. SPORT UTILITY
VEHICLES AND LIGHT TRUCKS WILL BE MOVED. THE BLOWN DEBRIS WILL CREATE
ADDITIONAL DESTRUCTION. PERSONS...PETS...AND LIVESTOCK EXPOSED TO THE
WINDS WILL FACE CERTAIN DEATH IF STRUCK.

POWER OUTAGES WILL LAST FOR WEEKS...AS MOST POWER POLES WILL BE DOWN
AND TRANSFORMERS DESTROYED. WATER SHORTAGES WILL MAKE HUMAN SUFFERING
INCREDIBLE BY MODERN STANDARDS.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF NATIVE TREES WILL BE SNAPPED OR UPROOTED. ONLY
THE HEARTIEST WILL REMAIN STANDING...BUT BE TOTALLY DEFOLIATED. FEW
CROPS WILL REMAIN. LIVESTOCK LEFT EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL BE
KILLED.

AN INLAND HURRICANE WIND WARNING IS ISSUED WHEN SUSTAINED WINDS NEAR
HURRICANE FORCE...OR FREQUENT GUSTS AT OR ABOVE HURRICANE FORCE...ARE
CERTAIN WITHIN THE NEXT 12 TO 24 HOURS.

ONCE TROPICAL STORM AND HURRICANE FORCE WINDS ONSET...DO NOT VENTURE
OUTSIDE!

[BaseLine]

Stay safe everyone. Hopefully the hurricane will not make any further casualties.

[zahncrelnik]

Still thinking good thoughts for all who are in Katrina's path :meditate:

:meditate: .. :meditate: .. :meditate: .. :meditate: .. :meditate: .. :meditate:

[Kathleen]

I live about 4 1/2 hours north of N.O. ... we're looking at tropical storm type weather here for the next couple of days..

I have an aunt that lives Houma that we're trying to convince to leave. She wants to stay despite the mandatory evacuation decree. My grandmother and mom are trying to get in touch with her every hour. My uncle that lives just south of Baton Rouge is leaving out with his new wife, and are trying to get her to go with them.

I have cousins that live in Pass Christian, Mississippi. They've moved further inland, but I'm afraid it's not far enough. We were also trying to talk them into coming a bit further north to get away from the worst of the damage that's about to ensue.

I've been praying for my friends in NOLA for the last couple of days. I hope they are safe and AWAY from the city. Last I heard, should Katrina make a direct hit on the city (like they are saying it will), Bourbon Street will be under 22 feet of water and Downtown will be under some 36-40 feet of water. :eek:

Louisiana has never known such fear. This is a sad turn of events we are facing, and I pray for all of South Louisiana and Mississippi.

[zahncrelnik]

:( It is sounding very very bad, from what they are saying on CNN. Please, please leave the coastal area if you can, remember Camille.
Storm surge can go far far inland.
They think that the entire area may be devastated for weeks or even months.
We will all be worried about people in general, in that area of New Orleans and all the low-lying areas of Louisiana, Mississippi,
Alabama, and Florida panhandle.

Continuing to think good thoughts for you all

:meditate: . :hugz: . :hug: . :meditate: . :hug: . :hugz: . :meditate:

[samati75]

Good luck, stellar. Keep us informed, if you can. Andrew hit us in 92 and it was bad. This is worse.

[Col.Batguano]

god thoughts and well wishes for you, bunker down and stay dry,
and let us know you're ok a soon as possible

[I-am-so-Johns-girl]

:hug: Girlie :hug: Glad your fam is safe.
Thanks Jacqui! I can use all the hugs I can get. :hug2:

I could use a few good vibes and hope that they will have a house to return to! :eek:

[NYPinTA]

Good, dry, safe thoughts coming for everyone! :meditate:

[trubador]

:umbrella: Hope you guys are doin' all right!!! :hug:

[AnnieBW]

Looks like Nawlins, Mobile, Biloxi, and Gulfport got it the worst.

Okay... answer me this... On CNN, they were showing a guy driving his sedan-type car directly into what looked like an overflowing lake of water. The cameraman (or producer) ran in to rescue him. So, you're driving along in a hurricane, and there's this huge body of water in front of you. Do you keep going? Frell no! Stop, turn around, and go like hezmana back the way you came!

People are soooo stupid...

[samati75]

still haven't talked to my mom in gulfport... :(

[Jul]

Keeping you all in my prayers... those pictures from Katrina coming through are just insane! there's so much water everywhere!

[freckle]

Can someone help please.My sister lives in Palm Harbour Florida, ive checked the BBC site and CNN but i cant find anything specific about where exactly it went.i havnt been able to get hold of her on the phone,she might be in a shelter,can anyone point me in the right direction.

[waltersgirl]

you might want to try here. (http://www.nowpublic.com/user/2173)

also, Technorati will have the most popular stuff on the net related to the hurricane and you could find more info there. (http://www.technorati.com/tags/katrina)

[Jul]

Here - this map from weather.com has information about where the hurricane made landfall in florida: http://www.weather.com/newscenter/tropical/?from=tabset

Palm Harbor is a little northwest of St. Petersburg, FL. you may want to contact the Red Cross there to find out if they have shelters open in that area. It is possible that electricity is out, and she may not be able to use her phone (i know our cordless phone doesn't work when the power goes out).

[ClareBarton]

Freckle,

It looks like the Palm Harbor area would have had very little damage from Katrina.

On Weather.com searched {Tampa} and indicates possible high surf and [I'd say minor ]coastal flooding, for Pinellas County (where Palm Harbour is). Does she live close to the Gulf, or on the waterways? The report I saw was for possibly 2 feet above normal (not too bad in that case- Pam's note ), but that alert was for until 6 am with conditions improving after that. (6 am is 1/2 hour from now, her local time) http://www.weather.com/weather/alerts/?alertId=25296&dbSeq=null

The area your sister lives in is within 30 miles of Tampa, Florida. I believe, that's over 200 miles (300 km) from the closest point Katrina the ever came to your sister, back on Friday. -- When all were concerned in Florida that it could curve more and come back. [That track is the best I can figure, using my own hurricane charting]. When it was smaller as a Category 1 Hurricane in Florida last Thursday, your sister was still very much out of the track, futher away than that. The final landfall was over 300 miles from your sister, and it's been moving away from her ever since.

I've been double checking a Tampa newspaper site (it's reports on much of that part of Florida). I don't expect to find much as little local effect, but I'll post another note here for you in a half hour. -- I lived in Tampa for 3 years, (now live Northeast Florida). Here's the newspaper's site, the Tampa Tribune: http://www.tbo.com/ All the reports I see the Tampa site posting are not local damage.

//Pam

[Folks in Florida (grocers, news papers & libraries, etc.) give out Hurricane charts & preparation help booklets. People in Florida can plot out the storms paths.

[ClareBarton]

Hi, Freckle.

I've been looking at the Tribune links and so far, so good. I've even checked the traffic reports to see if any flooded (main) roads reported-- none.

Hope you'll be able to contact your sister soon. It's almost 8 am local time, for her.

[freckle]

thanks my geography is crap and im never very sure how far places are from each other.Im going to keep trying the phone.

[RustySlinky]

I wouldn't blame anyone inside New Orleans for looting right now. No food, no water, no job. No stores open to take money even if one had any. No communication with the outside world. :(

Sure, they were told to evacuate, but what if they had nowhere to go?

[scrape_medic]

Is it really looting when your world has collapsed?

[zahncrelnik]

Are any 'Scapers displaced from their homes indefinitely??

Any 'Scapers from New Orleans? Does anyone know?
They need someplace to go if the government is really evacuating New Orleans.
The people will be displaced for an unknown length of time.
Good thoughs :meditate: and prayers to all who have been living in that region.

[samati75]

Update for me: Talked to my mom tonight. Had a good cry when I heard her voice! SHe was heading into Baton Rouge from Gulfport. Their house is north of the main part of Gulport and suffered extensive wind damage. They really have no idea how bad it is; Don (my stepdad) wanted to know if ppl had been talking about it on TV!!! I think they will get the full impact in the morning when they watch TV for the first time since Monday morning. I told Don if he didn't call his daughter Sue, in OKC, OK, she was going to kill me, so he did. She called me after saying she burst into tears in a restaraunt! My sister, Katie, in Crestview (Ft. Walton), FL hasn't yet talked to Mom.

Anywho, Mom and Don are heading back to Gulfport today or tomorrow hopefully to get the animals then head up to thier cabin in Arkansas for a few weeks. THe house in Gulfport had the carport and patio ripped off, which is NO small feat. There is a hole in the living room roof. Now, they are not near the beach; they are about 5 miles north of I-10, so they didn't have flooding. I don't even think they know about the storm surge. Ugh. Thank God they are OK!

On another note; a guy i was dating here in Orlando is actually from Moss Point/Pascagoula, MS. He talked to his parents on Monday morning and has not heard from them since. They live about as far north of the Interstate as my parents do, but about 40 miles east. He hasn't heard from them. He has an 8 year old sister, too, that he loves to pieces. We've been chatting and he's super worried, so keep him in your prayers, would you?

That's it for now. Mom said she took lots of pics, and eventually I will get copies and post them on Flickr. That may be closer to Thanksgiving, though, lol. Imagine a German shepard-mutt in a man's lap during a Cat 4 hurricane with the roof blowing off!

[scrape_medic]

At least your folks are alright.....and will keep your friend in my thoughts.

[I-am-so-Johns-girl]

I'm so glad to hear that your family is Ok samanti. I was really worried when I read your post about them staying. Whew!

My Mom, Dad, sister, her BF and his 9 yr old daughter, 1 dog and 2 cats evacuated to Memphis and were staying with friends there. They thought it would just be for a few days...NOT! My sister's step-son has offered them his house in Crestview, Florida and they are heading there tomorrow morning. He told them to stay as long as they need to. :D I tried to talk them into coming up here to stay with us but they want to be closer to New Orleans when the authorties finally allow them back into the city. It's such a mess. Who would have thoguht my family would turn into gypsies?

[samati75]

thanks, scrape_medic. Yeah, it's been weighing on me. Katie will be happier, too, once she gets to talk to Mom. I know I will sleep better tonight, but I won't be totally happy until everyone else is. In addition to the stuff I wrote up there (can you beleive there's more?!) - my best friend is from Slidell, but lives in a mobil home in Biloxi. She, her daughter, her parents, three pets and her grandmother, who has alheimers and lived in a home on the West Bank (N.O.) took off to Vicksburg, MS Sunday night. THat's 200 miles north of Biloxi and they still lost power, water and phone! Last night they all drove over to Birmingham, AL and sometime this week they will go to Destin, FL to all stay in the grandmother's beach house for an indefinite time. My friend figures she lost everything. Her parents have a huge house in Slidell on the water - a bayou off the Ponch. A friend of thiers flew over and said it's still there, but that's all they know.

There are tens of thousands of people going through this - just cause they made it out in time doesn't mean all is well. They've all become transients whether they have the funds or means or not. I tell you, this sh*t is messed up. Charlie and Ivan were nothing compared to this...

[AnnieBW]

If any homeless Scapers can make it up to the DC area, John and I would be happy to put them up until they get on their feet.

[BaseLine]

According to the news New Orleans will remain uninhabitable for the next few weeks. They're now planning on fully evacuating the entire city where there are fears that thousands of people have died. Some of the stories I've seen on TV are really heart-wrenching with families ripped apart.

I wonder why there is such a lack of help in the area. There are thousands of people stranded just outside New Orleans with all their possessions gone, and they've seen no help whatsoever. It's also disconcerting that nobody responded to the years of public pleas for more funding to the aging system of barriers and pumps.

[samati75]

BaseLine: There is no lack for help - there is NO way into the city. It's not safe either. I could go on and on, but I am too tired.

[BaseLine]

I do realize that access to the city itself is limited - that's why they use helicopters to transport people out. But I was talking about the refugees outside the city. Those people have nowhere to go and are very lucky to even find a hotel room.

There are also long queues in front of the WalMart, and in one report there was an older woman who stood in line in front of a (still closed) Home Improvement store to get a new oxygen tank for her husband (they couldn't contact the supplier in Biloxi, another hard hit area). All those people in that line said they had not heard, nor seen anyone who told them more about the current situation and / or offered them some kind of assistance. I call that lack for help.

[Madre Farbot]

I have just seen a link where it is suggested that texting between cell phones is still possible, even though other communications aren't possible.

A suggestion for those of you looking for loved ones lost in katrina (http://www.craigslist.com/sby/laf/94586352.html)

[Browncoat Serenity]

Even the birds were evacuating, not a good sign. Can even the birds spot this Climate change ?

And rescue and re-building efforts were hampered because most of the homeland civil defence is stuck in somewhere that is not Mississippi but Baghdad



Hurricane Katrina may get George Bushes attention because there are some oil wells that are in the way of Katrina in the Gulf of Mexico. Since global warming is a long term human aided problem, to sit back and do nothing is suicidal. Just like a chain reaction started in a nuclear bomb, nature has shown us from the past that once you go beyond the point of no return a devastating opposite reaction will occur that humans will not be able to fix.

George has urged the victims of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans and the Gulf Coast to eat some cake.
Oh my, but bad hurricanes fuelled by global warming do not exist, sighed the president as he stuffed cake into his mouth at a garden party for rich Republicans in the White House Rose Garden on Wednesday. Exxon Mobil has told me that global warming is a figment of the imagination, just like hurricanes. My, but this cake tastes good!
The president then cruised above the devastation of the Gulf Coast in Air Force One.
What is all that water doing in the streets of those towns and cities? he asked perplexed assistants who had no idea what he was talking about.

[NS_scaper]

I heard that when the choppers came to evacuate people they were shot at!!??? Why would people do that?

[samati75]

There are message boards at www.sunherald.com and www.wlox.com the biloxi newspaper and abc affiliate.

[BrowderChick]

STELLAR!!!!!

WHERE ARE YOU??!!???

[Owlman]

Martial Law has been declared. That means a bunch of triggerhappy guardsmen blowing away looters and refugees alike!

This is a truly sick situation.

Makes me see how lucky I was that Katrina stayed East.

H-Town welcomes all our Southern brothers and sisters forced out by the storm, because we know they would do the same for us.

[scrape_medic]

Someone please answer this.........there was a woman on the TV just asked why she did not evacuate when ordered? She replied that there were people there who could not afford the quarter for the toll brigde out of the city. Were they really still charging tolls during a mandatory evacuation?

[Kurt_eh]

It's about time, I was expecting this announcement several days ago:

Canadian forces on standby to help Katrina effort
CTV.ca News Staff

Canadian Forces are on standby to help the United States deal with the aftermath of hurricane Katrina, Chief of Defence Staff General Rick Hillier announced Thursday.

Gen. Hillier said he spoke with his counterparts in the U.S., Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Richard Myers and commander of the U.S. Northern Command.

"Whenever there is a need ... they have but to ask and we in the Canadian Forces will have it rolling or sailing or flying southward as quickly as possible," he told reporters in Ottawa.

He also said the Disaster Assistance Response Team would be ready to respond as soon as it was needed.

"Their message back to me was very clear. Firstly it was a heartfelt thanks from their part," Hillier added.


rest of article -- mostly Canadian political stuff here:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1125597613680_121006813/?hub=TopStories

[Pk_Ranger]

Someone please answer this.........there was a woman on the TV just asked why she did not evacuate when ordered? She replied that there were people there who could not afford the quarter for the toll brigde out of the city. Were they really still charging tolls during a mandatory evacuation?

From what we've been told (being briefed to go down and help out) there is never any tolls charged in the area of the evacuation.

Martial Law has been declared. That means a bunch of triggerhappy guardsmen blowing away looters and refugees alike!

As a guardsman about to go to N.O. I feel offended by that statement. How about the looters taking potshots at the guard? Or is that ok?

[scrape_medic]

From what we've been told (being briefed to go down and help out) there is never any tolls charged in the area of the evacuation.

Thanks for clearing that up PK ranger...guess she might have been misinformed or just said the first thing that came into her head as a reason for not going.

I agree that anyone who is going down there to help....is just there to help. Its awful that the rescue workers are being attacked. Some I can understand, but not justify. People are desperate down there. But I guess that when the normal controls of society are removed, some people just don't know how to behave.

[Pk_Ranger]

No problem Scape Medic... to add on to my statement earlier, about the the trigger happy guardsman? How about the trigger happy people? The man who shot and killed his sister in the head over a bag of ice. The man who shot a police man because the cop would not allow the guy to use his car. Or how about the people taking pot shots at the guardsmen?

[RustySlinky]

Lack of food or dry shelter aside, how many days can one survive out there without drinking water? In 90 degree humidity?
Someone please answer this.........there was a woman on the TV just asked why she did not evacuate when ordered? She replied that there were people there who could not afford the quarter for the toll brigde out of the city. Were they really still charging tolls during a mandatory evacuation?CNN and FOX said that people who didn't have cars couldn't evacuate out of the city - because there weren't enough public transit buses to carry people out in advance of the storm.

So many of the people left behind were the poor or sick Afro-Americans. When people are living from paycheck to paycheck, they're more likely to ignore an evacuation to guard their belongings against looting, when it's so hard to replace what they currently have.

Even if they got out, what if they don't have money to buy food or shelter, or got no family or friends to go to. :(

[scrape_medic]

What can be more valuable than your life?? I live in a flood plain, and though the likelyhood of flooding is extremely unlikely, I have a evacuation plan. I know exactly what I would take with me......clothes, food, water, some important documents, the computer and the cat (not necessarily in that order).......I am not poor by a long way, but everything else is replacable or unimportant.

Surely any evacuation plan should take into account those who have no transport of their own. I am sorry if I seem critcal, but its not like this wasn't forecasted, (maybe not the extent of it), but a mandatory evacuation, i.e. "we are ordering you to leave the city" should mean that you can aid those who are unable to help themselves?

[Jim Reaper]

The man who shot and killed his sister in the head over a bag of ice. The man who shot a police man because the cop would not allow the guy to use his car. Or how about the people taking pot shots at the guardsmen?

There are no words...:(

[AgentSun]

CNN and FOX said that people who didn't have cars couldn't evacuate out of the city - because there wasn't enough public transit buses to carry people out in advance of the storm.

So many of the people left behind were the poor or sick Afro-Americans. When people are living from paycheck to paycheck, they're more likely to ignore an evacuation to guard their belongings against looting, when it's so hard to replace what they currently have.

very sad and very true, rustyslinky.

i've been very lucky that the storm hasn't progressed further north to hit the NC and VA areas but this devestation is horrendous. i've been following the news on this and it's just terrible.

i think the reason why N.O. is flooded is not directly because of Katrina...it's because the levees were damaged and began letting water into the city. I was watching the news yesterday morning and they said that the levees would continue letting water in (some parts of N.O. are 5 to 20 feet below sea level) until the water levels in the city evened with the water levels on the other side of the levees.

though i can't be sure that the news report got the first part right, though i do know that the parts about the levees evening out is correct.

Pk_Ranger, I wish you much luck and safety in N.O.

Also to be clear...looters are not the good guys. they're poor, desperate people trying to make out with whatever they can -- they're taking advantage of the dead and the stranded without regard for fellow human life. they're desperate and it's sad that they're going to do things like this at the expense of the lives of others'. they are not respectable, they are not excusable. they are understandable...but they are not excusable.

[Pk_Ranger]

http://cnn.worldnews.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=CNN.com+-+Gunmen+target+medical+convoy+-+Sep+1%2C+2005&expire=-1&urlID=15383133&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F2005%2FWEATHER%2F09 %2F01%2Fkatrina.impact%2Findex.html&partnerID=2006

Come on, are they really *that* desperate?

[AgentSun]

they are that desperate..in their own minds. these people can't POSSIBLY be expected to act logically but shooting at the same people who are trying to help them is insane and these people are committing criminal acts for no reason. they have no reasons for doing what they're doing -- they're angry, sad, hurt and are most likely suffering from disease or mental illness from the onslaught of this trauma. but that's no excuse for shooting at people and disrupting medical services to people who really need them.

[AnnieBW]

I was asking the same question - why didn't people evacuate? Well, a lot were sick, shut-ins, poor, etc. A lot of them also TRIED to leave, but Greyhound shut down the bus terminal on Saturday, and the airlines refused to fly empty planes into NOLA and Biloxi because they'd lose money on half the trip.

With the shooters - partially you have the criminal element running wild. You also have very desperate people, who are getting more desperate by the moment. There's also probably a whole lot of people who have run out of their medications.

This is the biggest clusterfrell EVER.

[scrape_medic]

But can the authorities put their hands up and admit where they went wrong, without fear of being sued, so at least this can't happen again in the future?

[Pk_Ranger]

But can the authorities put their hands up and admit where they went wrong, without fear of being sued, so at least this can't happen again in the future?

Good point, but who could they sue? If they could? You have to ask permission to sue the government, and the governer did say mandatory evac. So who exactly would they sue?

[AgentSun]

It's partially the fact that N.O. isn't a massive hurricane town...i mean, they do get hurricanes but nothing as huge as Katrina has hit in a long, long time. the storm suddenly intensified...it wasn't like they knew it was a category 5 for a week.

according to wikipedia: At 12:40 a.m. CDT (0540 UTC) on August 28, Katrina was upgraded to Category 4. Later that morning, Katrina went through a period of rapid intensification, with its maximum sustained winds reaching as high as 175 mph (280 km/h) (well above the Category 5 threshold of 156 mph (250 km/h)) and a pressure of 906 mbar by 1:00 p.m. CDT. Nonetheless, on August 29 the system made landfall as a strong Category 4 hurricane on 6:15 a.m. CDT at Buras-Triumph, Louisiana with maximum sustained winds of 140 mph. Its lowest minimum pressure at landfall was 918 mb, making it the third strongest hurricane on record to make landfall on the United States.

it developed VERY rapidly...it was predicted to pass N.O. with little consequence but it shifted direction.

[scrape_medic]

Extracts from the 1900hr advisory from saturday evening..
MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS ARE NEAR 115 MPH...WITH HIGHER GUSTS.
KATRINA IS A CATEGORY THREE HURRICANE ON THE SAFFIR-SIMPSON
SCALE. STRENGTHENING IS FORECAST DURING THE NEXT 24 HOURS...AND
KATRINA COULD BECOME A CATEGORY FOUR HURRICANE LATER TONIGHT OR
SUNDAY.

DATA FROM BUOYS INDICATE THAT 12-FOOT WAVES ARE ALREADY APPROACHING
PORTIONS OF THE NORTHERN GULF COAST. STORM SURGE FLOODING ALONG THE
SOUTHWESTERN COAST OF FLORIDA SHOULD SUBSIDE TONIGHT.

Source NHC (http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2005/pub/al122005.public_a.018.shtml?)

Extracts from the 2200hr advisory from saturday evening..
...DANGEROUS HURRICANE KATRINA THREATENS THE NORTH CENTRAL GULF
COAST...A HURRICANE WARNING ISSUED...

MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS REMAIN NEAR 115 MPH WITH HIGHER GUSTS.
KATRINA IS A CATEGORY THREE HURRICANE ON THE SAFFIR-SIMPSON SCALE.
STRENGTHENING IS FORECAST DURING THE NEXT 24 HOURS...AND KATRINA
COULD BECOME A CATEGORY FOUR HURRICANE ON SUNDAY.

COASTAL STORM SURGE FLOODING OF 15 TO 20 FEET ABOVE NORMAL TIDE
LEVELS...LOCALLY AS HIGH AS 25 FEET ALONG WITH LARGE AND DANGEROUS
BATTERING WAVES...CAN BE EXPECTED NEAR AND TO THE EAST OF WHERE THE
CENTER MAKES LANDFALL.
source NHC (http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2005/pub/al122005.public.019.shtml?)

They knew it was coming at least a day before that AS. I even posted the map that went with that here.. http://www.watchfarscape.com/forums/showpost.php?p=726991&postcount=21

[Owlman]

As a guardsman about to go to N.O. I feel offended by that statement. How about the looters taking potshots at the guard? Or is that ok?

I apologize to you. Also good luck to you there.

Always been rather untrustworthy of the Guard since my dad used to tell me about all the times back in Vietnam, when the Guard would shoot innocent people for no reason in Houston.

Its going to be a bloody night in NOLA either way

[LiLOrion]

CNN and FOX said that people who didn't have cars couldn't evacuate out of the city - because there weren't enough public transit buses to carry people out in advance of the storm.

One of the stations was talking to a woman who was one of 300 or so people stuck in a Radisson hotel on Canal Street. She was there for her wedding anniversary and they had tried to leave, but the flights were stopped and she said they really had no choice but to stay. There are some British tourists in the same hotel (who managed to get in touch with the BBC). They really arent sure if anyone knows they are actually still in the hotel. And of course they dont want to attempt to leave cause of the looters in the streets.


Unbelievable doesnt even begin to describe it.

[zahncrelnik]

anyone who can make it as far as Chicago-land contact me,
I know people who will help with a place to stay...

[AgentSun]

Fats Domino is alive and has been rescued.

[stellar]

I'm still here. I lost power the morning Katrina hit and got it back 2 hours ago. We got molested pretty good, but all in all we're safe and dry. My city has doubled in population and will be probably be as swollen for many many many months.

[NYPinTA]

Glad to hear you are ok. Was starting to get worried.

[BrowderChick]

I'm still here. I lost power the morning Katrina hit and got it back 2 hours ago. We got molested pretty good, but all in all we're safe and dry. My city has doubled in population and will be probably be as swollen for many many many months.
Whew.... yeah we were a bit worried.

[Browncoat Serenity]

I wouldn't blame anyone inside New Orleans for looting right now. No food, no water, no job. No stores open to take money even if one had any. No communication with the outside world. :(

Sure, they were told to evacuate, but what if they had nowhere to go?

some info on getting Disaster Relief, Support, contacting people and other Blogs. Current estimates are 6-8 weeks for pumping, years for rebuilding.
should New Orleans be abondoned altogether...ie. not safe for human occupancy? Many around the world are watching this chaos unfold, "Anarchy in the USA" declared Britain's best-selling newspaper The Sun and "Apocalypse Now" headlined Germany's Handelsblatt daily.. Many people will flee to Texas, Houston Astrodome ALREADY full!
The poor people are desperate, they don't have food or shelter. There are criminals who start to thrive, violent gangs taking over the streets. Murders and rapes are rampant. The United Nations offered to help coordinate international relief efforts for the United States. The Mississippi Emergency Management Agency reported 881,889 homes or businesses are still without electricity Thursday. Gov. Blanco spokeswoman Denise Bottcher described a disturbing scene unfolding in uptown New Orleans, where looters were trying to break into Children's Hospital.
More than 20 countries, from allies Germany and Japan to prickly Venezuela and poor Honduras, have offered to help the United States cope with the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. Police are stopping search and rescue and are concentrating on restoring order after a supply truck was hijacked. When criminal looters start shooting at emergency services personnel things start to look real bad.



http://thenextfewhours.com/blog/
http://www.deadlykatrina.com/
http://neworleans.metblogs.com/
http://katrina05.blogspot.com/

[Kurt_eh]

Canada prepares to help Katrina victims
Last Updated Fri, 02 Sep 2005 11:33:09 EDT
CBC News

Canadian warships are being prepared in case the U.S. calls for help. Defence Minister Bill Graham said a destroyer and two frigates are being packed with supplies and equipment in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

The ships should be in a position to leave Halifax in three or four days.

Canadian military officials stressed that despite ongoing discussion, U.S. couterparts have made no requests for assistance.

That won't stop the military from preparing water purification units and other supplies, so that Canada can move quickly should the call for help come.

Graham said from Moscow that Deputy Prime MInister Anne McLellan is chairing a cabinet committee on aid response.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/09/02/canadian_response20050902.html

[Nicola]

From the International Herald Tribune:

Nations hit by tsunami are offering to send aid (http://iht.com/articles/2005/09/02/news/react.php)

As the tragedy of New Orleans unfolded before onlookers around the world, donations and offers of assistance poured in from Americans and others - including some from poor nations still struggling to recover from a comparable disaster, the tsunami that spread across Asia last December.

Oddly, however, the administration of President George W. Bush evinced an ambivalent attitude toward the world's generosity. The president said that international aid was appreciated but unnecessary; other administration officials indicated that all offers of help would be gratefully accepted.

The offers of foreign aid kept pouring in on Friday: helicopters from Canada, cash from Japan, tents and military aircraft from France, even oil from Venezuela, a political foe.

Asia-Pacific nations - including tsunami-battered Sri Lanka - promised Friday to send money and disaster relief experts to the United States to help deal with the aftermath of the storm.

Australia topped the list of nations in the Asia-Pacific in the region that pledged aid.

Japan and Singapore - which along with Australia are among Washington's strongest allies in the region - were also quick to promise help.

Some of Asia's poorer nations also offered to help, including some of those hit hardest by the last December's tsunami.

Sri Lanka, which received substantial U.S. military and other foreign aid after the tsunami killed more than 31,000 and displaced one million there, on Friday pledged $25,000 to the American Red Cross.

The government also urged Sri Lankan-born physicians living in the United States to volunteer their services to the relief effort.

[Zutulu]

Oddly, however, the administration of President George W. Bush evinced an ambivalent attitude toward the world's generosity. The president said that international aid was appreciated but unnecessary; other administration officials indicated that all offers of help would be gratefully accepted.

I just don't get it. Why is he being so bloody stubborn about not accepting help?? From what I can see, it's sorely needed. Is there any legitimate reason we shouldn't be accepting help? (well, aside from those countries still suffering from the effects of last year's tsunami; I say they ought to keep rebuilding for themselves, although it is a testament to human generosity that they are so willing to help)

[Browncoat Serenity]

I just don't get it. Why is he being so bloody stubborn about not accepting help?? From what I can see, it's sorely needed. Is there any legitimate reason we shouldn't be accepting help? (well, aside from those countries still suffering from the effects of last year's tsunami; I say they ought to keep rebuilding for themselves, although it is a testament to human generosity that they are so willing to help)

It is a weird mindset which says 1st world or Industrial superpowers shouldn't ask for assistance
during the Russian hostage crisis foreign nations offered help and skilled people for negotiation but arrogant Russia rejected it
During the Japanese Kobe quake, foreign countries wanted to help but Japan's pride turned them away while thousands died buried in fires and earthquake rubble

Today Australia announced a donation of $8 million to the American Red Cross. Cuba and Venezuela, for instance, have offered to help despite differences with Washington. France, "determined to show its solidarity with the United States," offered a range of aircraft and two ships, with helicopters and planes capable of airlifting tons of supplies, a disaster unit with 20 soldiers, a civil defense detachment of 35 people and an airborne emergency unit, the French Embassy said. British Prime Minister Tony Blair led world leaders' pledges of aid to hurricane-stricken areas of the U.S. Friday with an offer to help "in any way we can." "The whole of this country feels for the people of the Gulf Coast of America" who have been hit "by what is a terrible, terrible natural tragedy," he said. The European Union said it was ready to offer any assistance in the wake of "what is perhaps the greatest civil emergency in U.S. history.Germany also said it would offer aid or money if requested by Washington, though officials said the U.S. was well equipped to deal with natural disasters.German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder sent a telegram to President George W. Bush saying he was "deeply shocked" by the news."Many Germans know and love the City of New Orleans and feel deeply the great worries the people there and in the region have regarding their safety and future," he wrote.

[hypnotoad]

Originally Posted by Zutulu
I just don't get it. Why is he being so bloody stubborn about not accepting help?? From what I can see, it's sorely needed. Is there any legitimate reason we shouldn't be accepting help? (well, aside from those countries still suffering from the effects of last year's tsunami; I say they ought to keep rebuilding for themselves, although it is a testament to human generosity that they are so willing to help)

The US is accepting help from other nations.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vancouver Sun
Friday, September 02, 2005

Descent into horror: Gunfire, looting stall B.C. rescuers
Richard Chu


Gunfire, looting and civil unrest in Louisiana forced the 42 members of Vancouver's Urban Search and Rescue team to "hunker down" Thursday in Kenner, La., until local police deem it safe enough for them to conduct rescue operations.

"The lid has blown off this place," said Brian Inglis, manager of the Vancouver team in an update on the USAR website, vancouver.ca/usar.

"There's a lot of gunfire, a number of hostage situations right down the street. So all search and rescue has been halted in the area right now.

http://www.canada.com/vancouver/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=6cb4f526-dcef-437a-9d27-0f160b480b58

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
CBC News

Canadian warships to sail to Louisiana
Last Updated Fri, 02 Sep 2005 18:20:41 EDT

Three Canadian warships, a coast guard vessel and three Sea King helicopters will be sent to Louisiana on Tuesday with relief supplies for the U.S. Gulf Coast. Defence Minister Bill Graham made the announcement from Moscow, Russia.

The Canadian Coast Guard Ship Sir William Alexander will sail along with the Canadian Navy vessels, HMCS Athabaskan, HMCS Ville De Quebec and HMCS Toronto. Naval crews were busy loading gear on to the ships in Halifax Friday as 1,000 personnel prepared to head to waters off New Orleans.

...About 40 navy divers from both coasts were also expected to deploy with the mission, which got clearance after American officials accepted a Canadian offer of help.


http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/09/02/Canadian_ships_to_louisiana20050902.html

[TheBladeRoden]

It's the same reason men won't ask for directions when they're lost.

[Zutulu]

Well, that's at least better than what I thought. From all the articles I had found, it seemed as thought Bush was turning away every sort of help.

[Owlman]

Anyone see Kayne West's rant?

That was uncalled for, and Mike Myers looked really uncomfortable standing next to him.

[Spedoinkel]

I've got no real responce to all this. Just chiming in to say, I know what's going on, and the gravity of the situation isn't lost on me. Some things I could say, many people would be angry at me for, though some would agree. But over all I can't wait for the end of our drippy holocaust.

[RustySlinky]

There was a intense analysis on PBS's "The news hour" last night. Among the points made:

Three big shocks are still coming out of this:

> The casualty count, when they start tallying it up

> The decision whether to relocate the entire city of New Orleans to higher ground, raise the entire city by ten to twenty feet in elevation, or rebuild and improve the levees. And the costs involved with rebuilding lives and communities. For more, here's a link, warning about flooding back from year 2001:

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&articleID=00060286-CB58-1315-8B5883414B7F0000

> The shocks to the country's economy, not including the oil-shocks: The port of New Orleans sits on the mouth of the busy Mississippi River, and is one of the biggest ports in the nation. There's a lot of freight barges and shipping commerce going thru that port, and higher prices might be coming this holiday season.

-----

Also, last year, there was talk about "Two Americas". This disaster revealed to the entire world, how the under-belly of America lives, and many Americans are privately ashamed - For America's poor minorities, this could be the Anti - 9/11; the make-or-break moment that if handled improperly, will shake the poor's faith in their own government. This is what the nations Blacks are tapping into.

[RustySlinky]

Anyone see Kayne West's rant?

That was uncalled for, and Mike Myers looked really uncomfortable standing next to him.I think it was partially President's Bush's images on TV that's created some of the bad vibes. The footage of him sitting in the airplane looking at the destruction down below, like a God staring down at the little people - I don't think that was very helpful to the president's image. IMO, they should'a showed Bush wading in the floodwaters, getting dirty and helping survivors with his bare hands. Just like that mayor of New York? ;)

[Owlman]

Pro-Wrestler/ WWE Tag Team champion John Heidenreich has lost his whole family in the storm. He doesn't know if they are alive or dead, but here is a blurb from WWE.com


“I’m going down there Wednesday come hell or high water,” Heidenreich said. “I believe the Baton Rouge airport is open. I’m flying to whatever airport will land me, taking whatever rental car will drive me and I’m going to buy a gun for protection. If there’s no law down there, I’m not going to have some moron running around shoot me. I have a father, wife and kids to track down.”

Good luck to you John

[Pk_Ranger]

You know what? All the people playing the racist card is just going to cause more problems then need be. I think Jackson needs to shut the hell up and until he gets off his ass and goes and actually does something besides say all this is racism, he shouldn't say anything else. Kanye blasting Bush? I don't see Kanye dropping any of his precious money to help out. Randall Robbinson saying "Black Hurricane victims eating corpses" I think people need to take a time out instead of playing the race card and causing even more tension just sit back and let the Army and everyone else do their jobs.

[Browncoat Serenity]

You know what? All the people playing the racist card is just going to cause more problems then need be. I think Jackson needs to shut the hell up and until he gets off his ass and goes and actually does something besides say all this is racism, he shouldn't say anything else. Kanye blasting Bush? I don't see Kanye dropping any of his precious money to help out. Randall Robbinson saying "Black Hurricane victims eating corpses" I think people need to take a time out instead of playing the race card and causing even more tension just sit back and let the Army and everyone else do their jobs.

Old people are dying in the street, certainly the federal government should send timely aid. There are being questions asked because after 2003 the Army Corps of Engineers sharply slowed its flood-control work, including work on sinking levees. "The corps," an Editor and Publisher article says, citing a series of articles in The Times-Picayune in New Orleans, "never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of Iraq, as well as homeland security - coming at the same time as federal tax cuts - was the reason for the strain."

O'reilly at Fox is trying to do some spindoctoring politics and blame it on Al-Gore, says Gore is at fault and to blame for the Hurricane because of some paper Democrats and Al-Gore signed some years back. Do we need political backstabbing and ranting political slurs.

Mississippi was hit bad, there has been violence and looting of New Orleans. Babies are without food, Corpses lie in the street

[harveywhispers]

Old people are dying in the street, certainly the federal government should send timely aid.


The Federal Agencies are set to act in a support role to all state assets. It is the role of the state to determine "we need ***", and then the feds can act in an appropriate manner. This is due to the manner in which the Constitution is set to provide states the majority of control. If the state does not take the action of quickly stating "we need", it takes that much longer for the agencies to be able to deploy the appropriate supplies/volunteers/troops. It isn't just a quick matter of telling the Minnesota governor that 1,500 troops are needed, when it is possible that the only troops prepared are a Signal Batallian. Radio Operators wouldn't be of a heck of a lot of help when teams trained for S&R, or mobile food stations are needed. Supplies take time to get loaded, troops take time to get mobilized and it takes time for people to travel to where they are needed.

My point...
There is plenty of blame to go around. Anyone who has not had direct contact with the way that bureaucracy works should settle down about problems, and realize that everyone is working to keep these people alive.

just my .02

[scrape_medic]

Beauraucracy is an ass if it takes that long to get transport down there to start ferrying the people out, if it doesn't use the same resources that it is able to despatch across the world.

My tuppence worth, as an outsider, and having watch daily new reports from a number of different sources, was there something wrong with setting up a tent city just outside the affected areas? I ask this cause I see a number of problems with the way the rescue plan has worked out so far.

- you can house 1500 plus odd people overnight in a large stadium facility, but for more than a couple of nights, you have to look at public health issues of that type of inadequate "enclosed" facility. Can you imagine even trying to get any rest or sleep with 1499 other people gathered around you, the first health stressor. You don't have anything that you can remotely call your own space, further deteriorating your sence of security, the second health stressor, especially if you are trying to hold on to the last few possesions you own. Disease will spread quickly, from the mere lack of fresh air, airborne droplet carried disease will have no where to go.

At least in a tent city you could have a space "to call your own", the least amount of privacy and dignity, and less chance of catching your neighbour's disease.

- If a tent city had been set up, medcial facilities could have been set up along side more easily, and with better access to get people away to definitive treatment facilities and more access for health personnel to get to the victims.

- Ferrying people away to distant facilities takes up time and resources needed to return and retrieve more of the victims. Simple equation really, a bus making a thirty mile round trip, will be able to make more trips and retrieve more people than a bus making a 100, 150 mile round trip.

- The victims of the hurricane could be better triaged at a intermediate facility. Those assessed to have the greatest need, could be moved on to more adequate facilities sooner, for instance the elderly, those in medical distress but not needing immediate treatment or children.

-It would have been easier to police a tent city, rather than send troops into the affected area to have to stand in the same affected waters that is likely to cause disease in the victims. It would also be easier to feed and rest those troops where the infracstructure permits easier access.

There is more but I am ready for bed and the brain has stopped....but this has been bugging me for days. The only answer for why something like this wasn't set up was that someone decided that they didn't wnt pictures broadcast around the world of americans living in tents. I am probably wrong, but thats the only reason I can see. They only had to move people a matter of twenty miles or so to get them out of the worst affect and flooded, sewage ridden areas.

[StarsGoBlue]

The tone of this thread has taken a sharp turn, so I'm putting on the mod hat to remind people one more time--

THERE IS TO BE NO PARTISAN POLITICAL DISCUSSION ON THIS BOARD.

Just a reminder, because a few posts in the last two pages are very close to the line. Yes, we are all incensed about the mishandling of Katrina's aftermath, of the debacle that kept help from arriving for far too long. Discuss the mistakes, discuss the issues, argue without flaming, and please abide by the ToS.

Thank you.

[Browncoat Serenity]

There are a number blogs on the event, with detailed reports on the damage and help needed, newslinks, info on aid, personal blogs and how to contact people

http://thenextfewhours.com/blog/
http://www.deadlykatrina.com/
http://katrina05.blogspot.com/

[harveywhispers]

My apologies if anything I wrote could be interpreted as a partisan turn, as my only intention was explaining "why" the feds have behaved a certain way. This all has a lot to do the way that the way that our country separates its powers and that, based upon the length of time it has been in place, should not be viewed as a partisan turn one way or the other. I did remove the portion of my reply which may have sounded preachy, regarding my own personal anger over blame and personal pride over the spirit of the human being.

Again, my apologies if I caused any ill will.

[StarsGoBlue]

There are a number blogs on the event, with detailed reports on the damage and help needed, newslinks, info on aid, personal blogs and how to contact people

http://thenextfewhours.com/blog/
http://www.deadlykatrina.com/
http://katrina05.blogspot.com/


yes. :) i particularly thought this (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9178815/site/newsweek/) was a well-balanced article, with links in the right sidebar to more partisan slants to both sides for those who want to find out and think about other perspectives.

also, this blog (http://althouse.blogspot.com/2005/09/reason-im-mad-as-hell-over-katrina-is.html#comments) has a great discussion/debate going in the comments, with POVs that are very divergent.

[Browncoat Serenity]

Broussard, says he still doesn't have the resources needed to save the lives
http://www.ameratsu.com/media/vid/nbc/nbc_mtp_aaron_broussard_jefferson_parrish_050904a. wmv
Broussard tells a heart wrenching story

[I-am-so-Johns-girl]

OMG! My family lives in Jefferson Parish! This is so painful to see. :bawl:

Luckily my family evacuated in time and are safe but this type of responce from our goverment is unforgivable. I am completely devastated.

[zahncrelnik]

Timely aid is fine to talk about, but the fact of the matter is that no one ever know which way a hurricane is ultimately going to go.
Everyone thinks that something terrible won't happen to them.
People want to stay with their homes, protect their belongings.
They don't evacuate when they should. Many more people could have gotten out of New Orleans if they really wanted to. For some who stayed it boils down to 'it won't happen to me".
The government entities are not just sitting around waiting for htese tragedies to occur, a lot of the people who come out to offer aide in tragedies have other jobs. There are not 'act of God' events like hurricanes every day. It takes time to mobilize and prepare for 'rescue' efforts. Yes, the planning should be better, and yes there should be NO dilly-dallying between whose jusidiction the area is --they should get there fast and start helping people. But they are only human too.

Just try to put yourself in their place. I cannot imagine being told that I must leave my home, everything I own, and run away to hide from a storm or anything else.
Can you imagine being in that position??

I have made choices: I do not and will not live along hurricane shorelines, where there are earthquakes, volcanoes, you name it. I am fortunate to lived my entire life without facing a real tragedy from an 'act of God'. I live on the northern edge of 'tornado alley' and thank God I have never even seen a tornado, my homes always escape damage. I realize that I am extremely lucky.

I feel so bad for all those who have lost everything to Hurricane Katrina and the aftermath. My heart goes out to all of them. All who are affected by Hurricane Katrina and the aftermath are in my prayers every time I pray.
:hug: :meditate: :hugz:

[AnnieBW]

Oh, so we're blaming the victims for not leaving? Most of the COULDN'T leave. Most of them are poor, elderly, or sick. Or tourists with no means to get out of the city. The buses stopped running, and the planes stopped flying in on Saturday. Why? Because they'd lose money on planes that were empty on the inbound flight. Yes, if I was told to evacuate, I'd grab the meds, the cats, the computers, my book of autographs, and whatever food and clothes we could put in the car, and head out. But a lot of people didn't have that choice. Besides, people know that there's a rather large criminal element in New Orleans. They knew that their houses will be looted if they left. They didn't think the levees would break.

If you go out to Scientific American (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&articleID=00060286-CB58-1315-8B5883414B7F0000), there's an article from October 2001 on the possibility of a catastrophic storm hitting New Orleans. It's scary.

The point is not why people stayed. People in Mississippi and Alabama stayed, too, and they lost everything as well. And everyone is complaining about how crappy a job FEMA is doing. They've experienced hurricanes before, and they should know. Our government is frelling this up BIG TIME.

[StarsGoBlue]

calm down and read zahncrelnik's post again. victims are NOT being blamed, and both of you are saying the same thing.

things have been mishandled, and badly. and yes, some people who chose to stay are paying the price for that mistake, and others couldn't leave even if they wanted to, for a variety of reasons.

[AgentSun]

i was furious the other day in class when we were discussing the blame game and we were blaming the looters for some of the problems going on ....and this girl told us all that we were heartless and lacked compassion -- for the looters. people who commit crimes and would kill others to steal a television or a stereo need no compassion, nor do they ever care if others do or not. we were told we were being heartless. we were told we should have compassion for the people shooting innocent people who are trying to leave and shooting at police and military for PROTECTING them.

[Owlman]

People stealing TVs and shit should be punished in the best way possible. Now, it is a totally different story if its a man stealing food for his kid and gets blasted.

I think a lot of the violence targeted at police is from people who think they have been victims of police brutality for years and they deserve a little payback. As wrong as it is for them to do it, I know its one of the many reasons they are fighting the cops.

[waltersgirl]

As wrong as it is for them to do it, I know its one of the many reasons they are fighting the cops.


asked them, have you?

[Owlman]

asked them, have you?

Cause it makes sense. Not that any of it makes a bit of sense, but it is one of the many factors. I'm not excusing it at all. Some of it is gang related or just desperation. The cops make good scapegoats for a situation that no person can trully be blamed for. When you can avenge what hurt you, you find somebody else.

[Spedoinkel]

asked them, have you?
There's no need for that WG. It's called empathy.

[waltersgirl]

no, it's called making a sweeping generalization based on no information whatsoever.

[Owlman]

no, it's called making a sweeping generalization based on no information whatsoever.

More of an educated guess actually.

People who are victims of racial profiling and police brutality

A city full of corrupt cops (not saying most NO officers are, but there is a pretty good number)

Stuck in a city where the government failed you and your family, leaving you to fend for yourself

The only visible and tangible link to the government is the police.

Not to mention, the police are more vulnerable than ever.

All of this adds up to one motive to attack police.

It sure is shit isn't right, but its a motive none-the-less.

[StephX]

http://www.photofreeway.com/gulfcoast/index.php

This site is breaking my heart. :(
There are lots of frantic people out across the country.

Edited to add:

http://www.nola.com/forums/searching/index.ssf?initial=true

This one too...

[RustySlinky]

Some politician on FOX NEWS was yapping about how the French founded New Orleans below the flood line 300 years ago, and how because the city has survived for this long, it's good enough justification to rebuild it just like it was before Katrina struck.

I don't know if this guy got his facts straight. If I understand correctly, The French originally located what was then the tiny town of New Orleans above the flood lines, on a crescent shaped hill formation next to the Mississippi River.

The levees were built much later to drain the surrounding swamplands and floodlands, so that the city could grow.

Anyways, the guy basically avoided the crux of the long-term problem, which is that the city of New Orleans is slowly sinking at the rate of between 3 to 5 feet every 100 years.

Originally the town of 300 years ago was higher in elevation than it was today. To the French, it probably looked like a perfect place to build.

100 years from today, New Orleans will be lower than it is now, which means that the flood potential will continually worsen at the present location of the city.

The sinking is caused by:

1. The land underneath the city is silt from the Mississippi River. Silt slowly compacts itself over time as the grains come closer together.

2. To offset the sinking, the Mississippi River would regularly flood the land and deposit a fresh layer of sludge. Once the city was built and paved over, this natural process was interrupted. In fact the entire south coast of Louisiana is sinking under the ocean because the Mississippi River is not allowed to flood/meander in order to build up the land. (Currently, all that silt from the river is just falling uselessly off the continental-shelf.)

3. Pumping out the drinking-water is causing New Orleans to sink faster than it normally would.

So, the politician and the newscaster on TV probably didn't know. If New Orleans is to be rebuilt, either the land or the levees will eventually-continually have to be raised higher; because the city will not stop sinking. :(

[StephX]

Maybe we should ask the Dutch for some help designing a new levy system?

[Kathleen]

I've read this entire thread, and some of it boggles me, some of it I agree with and some of it is just.. :eek:

I have no compassion for the looters of New Orleans. None. Zero. Someone mentioned that people are looting for various reasons -- out of clothes, out of food, out of medication ......... The N.O.P.D. went out and helped those that were in need of those *essentials*. They opened up stores (such as Walgreens) and let the people go in and get whatever they needed. They put a STOP TO IT when people started trying to take advantage of the situation.

How can I feel sorry for someone that goes into a store and steals 10 pairs of brand new Nike shoes? How can I feel sorry for someone that goes into a store and steals a brand new television set? How can I feel sorry for someone that sends their children, who were no older than my own son, to do their stealing for them? How can I feel sorry for those that break into a WalMart and steal all the guns and ammunition and then use that to shoot at Police, Rescue workers and helicopters around a friggin' hospital? How can I feel sorry for someone that sneaks a 7 year old little girl away from her family in the Superdome and then rapes and murders her?

How can I have empathy for people that say "We had no way out" when I see a story on the news 2 days after the hurricane hit about a man and a woman with their 10 month old baby that WALKED from New Orleans to Baton Rouge to escape the storm?

I try and understand and empathize for these people, but it's so very hard. I feel more sympathy and empathy for the families of the 2 N.O.P.D officers that committed suicide in the last 2 days. I feel more for those that are trying to get out, and not taking advantage of the losses. Those that have stayed and fought to stay so they can continue looting and stealing and hurting others? I can't feel for those people... They don't deserve it, in my opinion, and nothing anyone says will make that feeling any better. :no:

As for the airlines refusing to fly into NOLA because they would lose money? Could I see a source on that? The reason I'm asking for one is because Delta Airlines offered to fly into NOLA to help get people out, but were told the airport was shut down by city officials.

I live in the state of Louisiana. I have family from south Louisiana and south Mississippi that lost EVERYTHING in the hurricane. They are hurting right now. They are wondering how they will start over with nothing more than the clothes on their backs and a few items they managed to throw into duffle bags before leaving. Some of them did not have transportation, but they still got out. One of my cousins, who is from Pass Christian, Mississippi just had quadruple bypass surgery 2 months ago. She got out. I have a very hard time believing that those people who stayed could not have found some way to get out of the affected areas. I watch the news, I read the paper, I look at the pictures, and I get utterly disgusted by some of the things I'm seeing and hearing by our state politicians.

My state has been devastated by this. We will eventually recover. I don't think New Orleans will ever be what it was. In some ways, I hope it's not. I hope it will become more than it ever was or dreamed to be, but it won't be easy and it won't be anytime soon. This will take *years* to recover. The morgues that have been set up in south Louisiana for the corpses coming out of New Orleans and below are estimating more than 5,000 bodies. Towns that I visited just last winter don't exist anymore. They've been taken back by the Gulf of Mexico. Venice.. Buras.. Boothville...... and so many more. :cry2:

What do we need? We need love, compassion, understanding and time. There are those that may not deserve those things; but for every one of those that don't, there's a thousand that do.

[/steps off soapbox and goes back to lurking]

[eta_carinae]

Currently, all that silt from the river is just falling uselessly off the continental-shelf.

Stuff from the Mississippi isn't just falling into the gulf, it's creating plumes of problems. There's actually a dead zone created by all the fertalizers and other chemiclas (but mostly the NO3) used in the "heartland" that wash into the river and out to sea. And I believe you can actually see the plume of silt in satellite photos of the area.

I agree with your argument :aok: It pretty much sums up everything I ever learned about the trouble with New Orleans. I can't believe the city didn't have a better disaster plan set up, considering how many times what could happen has been discussed. And it floors me that people want to rebuild there (which of course they will). It's like a lesson in how NOT to build a city.

[eta_carinae]

As for the airlines refusing to fly into NOLA because they would lose money? Could I see a source on that? The reason I'm asking for one is because Delta Airlines offered to fly into NOLA to help get people out, but were told the airport was shut down by city officials.

Well, I know Frontier has been flying people to Denver, but I think they're coming from Texas. I heard from my Mom that the govt was talking to ailrlines about chartering flights to fly people out , but I don't know from where. I don't have a source for that 'cause it came through the United Airlines flight attendants email list - they were looking for volunteers to fly down.

[Kathleen]

I wasn't trying to sound nasty or bitchy..:hug: Delta's home office is in Monroe, LA... about an hour from where I live.. they were lambasted by the media because it was made out that they didn't try and help evacuate people down south... they DID, but were turned away by the ever-so-brilliant [/sarcasm]Mayor Nagin of NOLA. :rolleyes:

[BrowderChick]

:hug: Kel

[Browncoat Serenity]

Nagin of NOLA



Funny how nobody blames Rudolph for the WTC falling but Nagin was screaming and cursing for help on Tv and radio, he was beggin Fema, the national guard, feds...to come down and help. Some foreign aid workers from Canada were ready but because of no food getting in for days, shots being fired at Aid workers and crackhead gangs getting ready to loot a childrens hospital the city descended into anarchy. Reading the police radio reports ( you can get them online ) the situation seemed even worse then the media broadcast. Mississippi was hit hard and some towns were wiped out, now there are heaps of old folks and children without food fleeing to Texas. As much as some would love to try it, no amount of political spin doctoring will be able to pin the blame on one guy. There were a lot of folks at fault in this disaster.

[AnnK]

:hugz: and more :hug2: to Kel - been wondering and worrying about you and yours... Glad to see you here! Sorry to hear about your family's loss - this is so hard to comprehend and just know we are all here for you.

[eta_carinae]

I wasn't trying to sound nasty or bitchy..:hug:

Was that directed at me? I didn't think you were being bitchy :dunno: Just thought I would point out that I don't have a source that I can link to :)

[BaseLine]

Maybe we should ask the Dutch for some help designing a new levy system?

From what I can tell there hasn't been a formal request (yet) for designing a new levy system, but there is already a team of experts assessing the situation in New Orleans and providing mobile pumps to pump away the water (we've started stocking these since the great flood of 1953). Also the Dutch company that recovered the Kursk has been recovering oil platforms in the vicinity.

Still, the levy systems in the Netherlands are designed for strong tidal changes in the North Sea not a class 4 hurricane. I think if the same systems were deployed in New Orleans, parts would probably still have flooded.

[StephX]

Well, yeah, your system is built for your set up and ours will have to be fixed up for what's needed in N.O. area. I just think it would be a good idea to get info from a source that has plenty of experience in it.

How bad was the flood of '53? (Yes, I know.. I can look that up ;) )

Edited to add:

Nevermind! I found info here.
http://www.thehollandring.com/1953-ramp.shtml

[I-am-so-Johns-girl]

Excuse me...it's levee not levy. :)

[Browncoat Serenity]

Excuse me...it's levee not levy. :)

maybe they can get the Dutch builders in Holland to build/donate a proper system

The Netherlands is sending three water pomps to the New Orleans disaster area.

An American transport plane was due to land at the air base in Eindhoven on Wednesday evening to collect the pomps and a freight vehicle.

Five Dutch water control experts will also travel back to the US with the pumps, the Foreign Affairs Ministry in The Hague said on Wednesday.

[I-am-so-Johns-girl]

May the Goddess bless the Dutch. :D :love:

[BaseLine]

...and the dozens of other countries that are lending a hand. The Netherlands is just one of them. :)

[I-am-so-Johns-girl]

Ooooops! :smash:
May the gentle Goddess bless them all!

[Owlman]

Just to go along with the relief concerts, a very fitting song from a band with strong Naw'Lens ties: Pantera, "Cemetery Gates"

Reverend, reverend
Is this some conspiracy
Crucified for no sinsAn image beneath me
Lost within my plans for lifeIt all seems so unreal
I'm a man couldn't half feel this worldLeft in my misery

The reverend he turned to me
Without a tear in his eyes
It's nothing new for him to see
I didn't ask him why
I will remember
The love our souls had
Sworn to make
Now I watch the falling rain
All my mind can see
Now is your (face)

Well I guessYou took my youth
I gave it all away
Like the birth of aNew-found joy
This love would end in rage
And when she died
I couldn't cry
The pride within my soul
You left me incomplete
All alone as the
Memories now unfold.

Believe the word
I will unlock my door
And pass the
Cemetery gates

Sometimes when I'm alone
I wonder aloud
If you're watching over me
Some place far abound
I must reverse my life
I can't live in the past
Then set my soul free
Belong to me at last
Through all those
Complex years
I thought I was alone
I didn't care to look around
And make this world my own
And when she died
I should've cried and spared myself some pain
You left me incomplete
All alone as the memories still remain

The way we were
The chance to save my soul
And my concern is now in vain
Believe the word
I will unlock my door
And pass the cemetery gates

The way we were
The chance to save my soul
And my concern is now in vain
Believe the word
I will unlock my door
And pass the cemetery gates
Gates
Gates

[zahncrelnik]

On CNN they are at it again: analyzing the "Hurricane Katrina" situation.
Who is to blame? What should be done? What should have been done?

First of all, lose the attitude that 'we are invincible'.
We are not invincible to the elements of planet earth.
There should be no one, whether the government or private citizens,
thinking 'it can't (or won't) happen to me.

When the weather experts are saying 'evacuate' then go if you can.
And the government bodies should be paying attention to evacuation
recommendations as well, and getting buses in there to 'staging areas',
so that people can try to evacuate if they want to --early on.

And, yes I understand that some people did not want to leave their
homes and possessions behind. I would not want to leave my home
either. But, what is more important -your possessions or your life?

To much denial, not enough preparation, not enough cooperation.
Who is in charge? The government or powers that be, or whoever they are,
never really had a decent plan for a tragedy like this Hurricane.

But it is not as if nothing has ever happened to the US before. It is just
that they did not have the media saturation that we are experiencing.

The Galveston Hurricane -1900
The San Francisco Earthquake -1906
The Great Alaska Earthquake -1964
Hurricane Camille -1969
The San Francisco Earthquake -October 17, 1989
Hurricane Andrew -1992

just to name a few of the bigger tragedies
and still the 'government' has no real evacuation plan in place.

Lessons are not learned. People forget the enormity of the tragedy.
The lessons are hard for those who did not actually experience such
a horrible tragedy.
We can only hope (and pray) that the great tragedy
of Hurricane Katrina leads to enough of an uproar to cause someone
to try to make a real plan. Someone needs to be in charge and know
what to do to try to help people.

Today, September 10, is the middle of hurricane season. I just hope and
pray that there is not another hurricane of this magnitude to hit the US
between now and the end of hurricane season 2005 (mid-November).


http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/02/hurricanes/
Other info and dates I googled for.