bringing back Farscape - self-funding.

[crichton_iasa]

I hope have posted this in the correct place ? :)

I was just watching BBC News 24 and they had a news segment about a British rock band called Marrilion(SP?). Anyway the news story referred to how their fans funded the recording of their next album in advance ... There was a whole lot more but it's extremely late, I'm tired and had a few drinks.

What I was thinking was everyone is saying that a brand new series is not possible but what if us fans paid for the DVDs in advance, say $70 each for a complete 22 episodes season. Now if half a million Farscape fans worldwide paid upfront that would be $35 million towards the cost of making a show. I'm sure the Jim Henson Company could put together a consortium that puts the difference towards making the show and the cost of the DVDs that the fans had paid up front.

Of course as a reward for paying for the DVDs before the series is even made would be to have every fan's name listed at the end DVDs, you know like the Lord Of the Rings extended editions. The names could be spread over all of the discs alphabetically so that surnames beginning a - c would perhaps be on disc one and d-f would be on disc two etc etc.

Anyway the other financial backers and Jim Henson company could then sell the international TV rights and DVD sales/any future high-definition format sales to help fund their profits, which no doubt would be very high considering that the fan base would have subsidised a large chunk of the initial funding up front.

I'm sorry if this has already been thought up but as a new member I've barely scratched the surface of this new forum and when watching the news it immediately sprang to mind how us fans could fund a brand new series of Farscape and had to post immediately... And who wouldn't want that!

what do you think ?


EDIT: also with the subsidisation by fans the Henson's would have more creative freedom with other financial backers having a smaller stake in the production to make the show imaginitive, risky, adventurous and groundbreaking like before.

[starburt123]

I think its a great idea . Sign Me up where do I send my 70 bucks

[crichton_iasa]

I think its a great idea . Sign Me up where do I send my 70 bucks


Obviously we would need to get the Jim Henson company on board to help to administer the funds so that we can send our money safely and securely.

Does anyone have any ideas how this could be managed?

[Ryu Taikiwa]

Well... I don't really know anyway of doing it safely, but finding out to see if the Henson company is onboard is a definate must first!

Righty people, lets get Farscape Back!!!!

[starburt123]

So who is going to get in touch with The Henson comapny ?

[crichton_iasa]

Well... I don't really know anyway of doing it safely, but finding out to see if the Henson company is onboard is a definate must first!

Righty people, lets get Farscape Back!!!!

Agree getting Henson company on board has to be the first step. Once they are with us I'm sure they could easily arrange a safe and Secure way to send our money. Also begin getting the actors, writers and production crew back on board...


So who is going to get in touch with The Henson comapny ?

I'm not sure would it be better for many people to contact them or perhaps a more senior Farscape forum member who has had prior contact through bringing back Farscape for the Peacekeeper Wars ?

Whoever does it it is imperative to act as quickly as possible before any other TV or movie producers get a chance to land Ben and Claudia now that Stargate has finished... Hopefully we'll have some time with them about to start the two Stargate straight to DVD movies in April, if what I read is correct.

[starburt123]

lets get the ball rolling . I for one cant take it anymore I need more farscape.

[stlscape]

From what I’ve read, the Jim Henson Company has a lot on its plate right now and so, unfortunately, getting something in place by the time Ben and Claudia finish filming the SG-1 movies probably isn’t going to be possible.

Since y’all are kind of new to the board, you may not be aware of everything that went on at the time of the cancellation. Fans paying for Season 5 came up, and we learned that there is a limit to the number of entities that can invest in a production (I’m pretty sure it was less than 15). That would mean that the fans would have to incorporate and pay their money up front. (Search for the Viewer’s Consortium – it was established after the cancellation, but I don’t think it went much further than researching what would be involved and getting pledges from fans (but never collecting any money.)

IMO, it will take a lot more than $70 USD per fan to get a season of Farscape. Just going with the (cheaper) Starburst Edition retail prices, a season’s DVDs would cost around $70. Then you’d have to add on top of that the cost of the 22 episodes (which used to run approximately $1.5 million each at 2002 prices and exchange rates - and who know what they’ll cost now.) The original DVDs retailed around $150 per season, and I heard many grumbles and “I can’t afford that”s from quite a few devoted fans: I’m not sure you’d be able to get enough people to actually invest the necessary amount of money.

You’re certainly welcome to look into what would be required and to contact the JHC, but don't be too surprised if they tell you thanks, but no thanks. They ARE aware that they’ve got a very supportive group of fans out here, and they don’t discount what we’re able to do, and they honestly DO appreciate every little thing we do for them. Sadly, however, they have to do what’s best for the company, and I’m not sure that this is it. :(

[crichton_iasa]

From what I’ve read, the Jim Henson Company has a lot on its plate right now and so, unfortunately, getting something in place by the time Ben and Claudia finish filming the SG-1 movies probably isn’t going to be possible.

Since y’all are kind of new to the board, you may not be aware of everything that went on at the time of the cancellation. Fans paying for Season 5 came up, and we learned that there is a limit to the number of entities that can invest in a production (I’m pretty sure it was less than 15). That would mean that the fans would have to incorporate and pay their money up front. (Search for the Viewer’s Consortium – it was established after the cancellation, but I don’t think it went much further than researching what would be involved and getting pledges from fans (but never collecting any money.)

IMO, it will take a lot more than $70 USD per fan to get a season of Farscape. Just going with the (cheaper) Starburst Edition retail prices, a season’s DVDs would cost around $70. Then you’d have to add on top of that the cost of the 22 episodes (which used to run approximately $1.5 million each at 2002 prices and exchange rates - and who know what they’ll cost now.) The original DVDs retailed around $150 per season, and I heard many grumbles and “I can’t afford that”s from quite a few devoted fans: I’m not sure you’d be able to get enough people to actually invest the necessary amount of money.

You’re certainly welcome to look into what would be required and to contact the JHC, but don't be too surprised if they tell you thanks, but no thanks. They ARE aware that they’ve got a very supportive group of fans out here, and they don’t discount what we’re able to do, and they honestly DO appreciate every little thing we do for them. Sadly, however, they have to do what’s best for the company, and I’m not sure that this is it. :(


I imagine it's going to take a while to get all our ducks in line and it's very unlikely we would be able to get everything done by the end of April... However we could be in a place where we could get the Henson's on board and Ben, Claudia and the other actors and writers on board for say a proposed 2008 production.

I agree I was thinking since my original post that $70 US wasn't going to be enough. I think it's something more in line with $100 should be more than adequate taking into account of half a million fans paying up front would garner $50 million... Based on $2 million an episode(with Henson's and other backers that could rise to $3 million or higher?) makes $44 million leaving $6 million to produce the DVDs, roughly $12 production costs and postage and packing per set. Considering it costs next to nothing to make DVDs this could be doable. Whatever the exact figures are the production costs and postage and packing could be deducted from a grand total leaving a large chunk (maybe $40 million?) towards the production costs

No doubt the Jim Henson Company and other financial backers would be investing in the show on top of the money that fans subsidise they should see big returns on a much smaller investment. So in essence the fans wouldn't need to come up with ALL of the funds but by arranging a massive chunk of the funding it would certainly make it look more attractive to other financiers.

I agree the initial $150 per box-set was excessive milking fans for their worth and at the time I certainly wouldn't have paid anywhere near that, especially for something that had already been shown on television. TV DVD box sets have come down across the board to much more reasonable levels now. Having said that I would definitely pay $150 for another season probably $200 (as long as all the DVDs were received before any TV airing) and trust me I can't afford that much money... I would pay that to get another full season of Farscape with all the original actors, writers and talent behind the cameras. $200 would be completely worth it considering the lack of worthwhile space set sci-fi and that's from somebody who hates being overcharged!

Perhaps we need to get people who are more business-orientated to lead the viewer consortium , collect pledges and find a safe way that money can be collected.

Should we get more organised and more people on board before drafting an e-mail to contact the Henson's. Perhaps coming from an organised and more professional viewer consortium it might lend more weight to the reality of bringing the show back.

What do other people think?

[Jul]

I think that your idea at this time, though welcome, is not feasible for a variety of different reasons that have been gone through in the past when the cancellation first happened. Henson has informed the fans in the past that they are not interested in a fan consortium as an investment source.

[MediaSavant]

Perhaps we need to get people who are more business-orientated to lead the viewer consortium , collect pledges and find a safe way that money can be collected.

Should we get more organised and more people on board before drafting an e-mail to contact the Henson's. Perhaps coming from an organised and more professional viewer consortium it might lend more weight to the reality of bringing the show back.

What do other people think?

I vaguely remember that the consortium that was formed after the cancellation did actually meet with the Hensons. But, they found out this just doesn't work.

Practically every time a TV show gets cancelled, someone investigates doing this and it never works. I think someone tried it for Enterprise, too, and were told "no thanks" by Paramount.

I think it has something to do with the number of parties involved, legally. I'm not a lawyer, though.

On the other hand, if you are an individual(or small group of individuals) with a lot of money in the bank and want to form a production company that would fund the project and become a true business partner to the Hensons, then I think that it might work.

The Henson Company itself is a small company.

[CosmicTheorist]

I think you might enjoy reading the article called "Farscape and the Future of Television"; it was written by Maureen Ryan just before "The Peacekeeper Wars" premiered. It can be found at this link:

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/farscape/index.html

Just scroll down a little more then half-way to find this article published on October 10, 2004.

Rather than Scapers trying to create a business model where we can fund more Farscape directly, maybe we should examine business models like magazine subscriptions or pay-per-view services, and then try to convince companies already in those businesses to help us get more Farscape.

For example, there are currently 3 DVD production and distribution companies making straight-to-DVD movies based on science fiction television series: Warner Brothers is producing Babylon 5 movies, MGM is producing Stargate SG-1 movies, and Universal is going to produce a Battlestar Galactica movie. It has not been officially announced, but Sony is taking over the licenses to produce and distribute Farscape DVDs from ADV Films. Perhaps, once it is official, we can get Sony interested in straight-to-DVD Farscape.

It couldn't hurt to ask.

;)

[Nicola]

Cosmic Theorist makes a good point. DVDs (and their revenue) do seem to be the way of the future.

Farscape DVD sales are performing above expectations (at least here in Canada they are - dunno about anywhere else). So library acquisitions (especially), addicting new eyeballs (who then have to get their own copy of the DVDs), and gifts to unsuspecting family and friends are a good way to promote the viability of the show. To Sony. To Henson. To Hallmark. :)

[Shipscat]

Cosmic Theorist beat me to it! I think that once the Farscape DVD rights are owned by a company with deeper pockets, we should start a campaign to promote the idea of new Farscape, straight to DVD, to them. In fact, if we're really lucky (and this is just hope talking) that might be why the aforementioned company is picking up the rights. You never know..

[Nicola]

In fact, if we're really lucky (and this is just hope talking) that might be why the aforementioned company is picking up the rights. You never know..

*closes eyes and wishes very hard*

Anyone got a mailing address for Sony? :)

[crichton_iasa]

Nicola where have you found sales figures for Farscape DVDs? Canada or even better globally? Going slightly off Topic I don't suppose you found any sales figures for Babylon 5, Buffy, Angel, Space above and Beyond aswell have you?


Nicola and cosmic theory, so do you think we should organise a campaign contacting Henson, Hallmark and Sony asking for a straight to DVD release?

does anyone have the e-mail addresses?

edit: I posted without refreshing, beaten to my email request

[Nicola]

Nicola where have you found sales figures for Farscape DVDs? Canada or even better globally? Going slightly off Topic I don't suppose you found any sales figures for Babylon 5, Buffy, Angel, Space above and Beyond aswell have you?

I don't have the sales figures for Farscape (or any of the others) - but the distributor in Canada has communicated that they are happy with Farscape's sales as they have exceeded (and continue to exceed) expectations. Keep up the good work Canadian 'Scapers!

Nicola and cosmic theory, so do you think we should organise a campaign contacting Henson, Hallmark and Sony asking for a straight to DVD release?

I think that is something we might want to consider. Research does need to be done - but Serenity (that little Firefly movie) is getting a Special Edition Release and Babylon 5 is being resurrected that way. It might be the way to go.

I would prefer a theatrical release myself (of course) but ...

:)

I should probably also mention that Sony only has the rights to Season One atm. Presumably they will be picking up Season Two, Three and Four as ADVs rights expire.

does anyone have the e-mail addresses?

I have the addresses for TJHC (http://farscapecanada.com/lett_who.shtml#jhc) and Hallmark (http://farscapecanada.com/lett_who.shtml#hallmark) - but not Sony.

Just a comment - a postcard carries much more weight than an e-mail. Might be something to think about. :)

[Shipscat]

I think we should wait til it's official before contacting Sony. I don't know that there will be a big announcement or anything but I imagine someone in the Farscape community will know when it is official.

[crichton_iasa]

I think that is something we might want to consider. Research does need to be done - but Serenity (that little Firefly movie) is getting a Special Edition Release and Babylon 5 is being resurrected that way. It might be the way to go.

I would prefer a theatrical release myself (of course) but ...

:)

I have the addresses for TJHC (http://farscapecanada.com/lett_who.shtml#jhc) and Hallmark (http://farscapecanada.com/lett_who.shtml#hallmark) - but not Sony.

Just a comment - a postcard carries much more weight than an e-mail. Might be something to think about. :)

I'll send a letter the old-fashioned way at the weekend if you think it will carry more weight. :)

I'm not surprised that a special edition of Serenity is being released. The US/UK DVD is a fairly poor DVD release, I imported the Australian region 4 which is a two-disc edition with tons more extras and by buying it from a specific shop it came in a nicely embossed Serenity tin.:D :D

I would love to see a big screen movie of Farscape made I just think I would prefer to see more TV movies/mini-series/complete series because I believe they will stay true-er to the show. By that I mean am big screen movie is likely to target a wider audience and possibly losing some of its darker, quirkier, more adult nature.

[ScapeJunkie]

What if we offer ourselves up for cheap labor? Haha, I am a concept artist and computer animator and can learn to build puppets. And I'll work for tacos or some form of nourishment, and maybe some rent. I'll have a hell of a time talking my wife into this hairbrained idea, but I would totally do it.:D

[crichton_iasa]

Research does need to be done - but Serenity (that little Firefly movie) is getting a Special Edition Release

I started a Serenity 2DVD post in the off Topic section including many pictures for anyone interested.

http://www.watchfarscape.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38319

[ScapeJunkie]

I haven't really liked Sony in the past but if they resurrect Farscape every piece of electronic equipment in my house after that would bear the Sony label.

And if any of you guys actually get something worked out I am totally on board.

Speaking of letters and postcards carrying more weight than an e-mail, do you think they would take notice if I painted a huge portrait of John and Aeryn and mailed it to the Henson company. Haha...but seriously :confused:

[crichton_iasa]

I haven't really liked Sony in the past but if they resurrect Farscape every piece of electronic equipment in my house after that would bear the Sony label.

And if any of you guys actually get something worked out I am totally on board.

Speaking of letters and postcards carrying more weight than an e-mail, do you think they would take notice if I painted a huge portrait of John and Aeryn and mailed it to the Henson company. Haha...but seriously :confused:

why the frell not!:)

it certainly can't hurt go-for-it:D

[ScapeJunkie]

Sweet, although you have way more experience painting portraits of them than I do.:D I'll try that out when I get a chance.

[Jakester1042]

Can anyone tell me what they know about ipetition.net and their Fund the 5th Season of Farscape petition? http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/FarscapeFund/

It looks like they have some sort of vehicle in place for fans to self fund Farscape. At first, it sounds very good. Below is an excerpt from their site;


This petition has the following goals:
1) Demonstrate support for the continuation of Farscape,
2) Demonstrate the possibility of financially backing Farscape with viewer/fan money,
3) Demonstrate support for increased viewer involvement through methods like viewer financing.

Pledge how much a 5th Season of Farscape is worth to you! What you would pay for a guaranteed 5th season? Do you want to open up new ways to save cancelled shows and give loyal, discerning Viewers more influence in programming decisions?

If collected (via memberships in a corporation) the pledged money would be used to directly secure a 5th season and get recognition for the viewers for making it possible (perhaps in the form of a special "Viewer-Financed" episode).

If it works it will be a one-of-a-kind chapter in television history, just like Farscape. And even if no deals can be made, the attempt will be a great demonstration of the value of the show and the resources of viewers in general.

Enter amount in US$ if possible. Please be honest and conservative. The pledge amount is not legally binding, but it IS a pledge and the projections we quote to interested parties should be as accurate and realistic as possible. We'll take great effort to root out insincere offers. Please include your email.

And even if you can’t pledge anything, you can still sign your general support of the idea of viewers taking matters into their own hands.

If signing a 2nd-3rd time to add to your pledge, write "addl" after the $ amount. (ex: $50 addl). Otherwise it will REPLACE your previous donation.

THIS PETITION WILL BE EMAILED/FAXED/MAILED TO THE NETWORKS!

Farscape Math: Regular intl. audience > 2 million
If 1% donate an average $40 (so far we're WAY over that): 20,000 x $40 = $800,000
If 4% contribute an average $10: 80,000 x $10 = $800,000
That's $1.6 million from only 5% of the audience! That's the cost of one full episode.

Hey, Networks: Buy 21, get 1 FREE!
DONATION UPDATE: Thanks for your generous support and fantastic feedback! As of 4/30/2003 we've had over 4700 signers and $375,000!!!

Some people may worry that this is not enough, but the petition currently relects only a tiny portion of the potential. A full effort to fund the show would get much more exposure than this petition, and would reach many more fans. Projections look VERY promising.

UPDATE: The Viewer Consortium, Inc. is investigating several alternative solutions for viewer support of Farscape. TVC is a non-profit corporation dedicated to raising the level of viewer-participation in programming decisions, and Farscape's renewal is their first specific project.

There is also more info in the "Sponsors" section along the right side of this petition page.



They ask for people to sign their petition and ask how much you are willing to “pledge” to help fund the 5th Season of Farscape. They also mention that “The pledge amount is not legally binding”. However, after I filled out the “pledge’ page, I was directed to another page in which I had bullet options that could be selected in amounts that varying from $2 to $100. Being cautious here, I picked the $2.00 button. I found myself at the Paypal sign in page. Seeing that I only had $2.00 to lose, I proceeded with my transaction and they indeed did, transfer my money to ipetition.

What does anyone know about these people? What are they going to use the money for exactly? Who are they going to give the money too? When did a “pledge” suddenly become a cash transaction? Was I just scammed? If so ... that makes me so angry ... a Farscape Scammer!!!! How disgusting.

Could anyone fill me in on a little more information about them?

All in all, it is NOT a bad idea. The only way that fans can directly finance Farscape, is through a corporation or company that is willing to act on their behalf. However, it would have to be set up correctly or the company could do what ever they please with the “pledge”.

I think it would be better if the company were to offer not pledges, but “investment options, portions or blocks”. They could be structured along the lines of corporate stocks or as ipetition has already set up, in clearly stated and defined amounts or categories of investment. They could range from $2 to $100 or what ever, but the fans would be buying blocks of investment in Farscape. In essence, each fan would be investing in Farscape as an investor, but from the legal point of view, only the company acting on their behalf would be the “official” investor and therefore, would not cause legal issues based on the total number of investors allowed. However, the fans would be entitled to profit sharing based on their investment, if the front company makes a profit off of Farscape. Remember, as much as we love Farscape, it is really all business to someone else. However, this company could set up an escrow account for the fan investment capital, and clearly state what the parameters are, such as; what the escrow could only be used for - funding or investment in a Farscape series. Who the money is to be released to. At what amount the escrow would release the funds. A time frame for and default for “failure to reach goal” clause. Basically, it could be set that when a certain amount is reached, the funds would be released to JHC (or their legal representative) and would specify a time frame that needed to also be met to do so. Lets say $1,000,000 to be released to JHC on or before 1 January, 2008. The “failure to reach goals” clause would be enacted if the total in the escrow account never reached $1,000,000 by 1 January, 2008. In that case, the investors would have their money returned minus a small management fee of say 10%. The fans take a risk, but it is small and if the goals are not reached, they would get the majority of their money back. Because it would be an escrow account, and if it is set up correctly, the front company could only use the money for what the account was designated for - funding Farscape.

The problem is, finding a company willing to do this or setting one up from scratch. And of course any company that would be willing to do this, is also going to charge a management fee too, fees probably customary to those charged by companies managing retirement funds; 2% to 3%.

My question is ... has this been tried already?

Any thoughts at all on this?

Anyone?

Thanks for reading.

[waltersgirl]

if you exit this thread and look up at the sticky threads, you'll find one on why fans can't finance the show. you'll see that it goes to a link about The Viewer Consortium. follow that link and you'll see that site is dead.

it didn't go anywhere because production companies cannot accept funds from fans. the business model and legalities regarding who gets rights to what as a result of monies paid in is too complex.

What does anyone know about these people? What are they going to use the money for exactly? Who are they going to give the money too? When did a “pledge” suddenly become a cash transaction? Was I just scammed? If so ... that makes me so angry ... a Farscape Scammer!!!! How disgusting.

caveat emptor. the wise thing is to ask before giving money.

let me tell you a story that has nothing to do with Farscape. Andy Garcia, big money A-list actor, wanted to tell the story of his family's life in Cuba just as Castro's revolution was breaking. it took him - Andy Garcia, A list actor - 14 years to bring that story to the screen. Andy has had his own prodco for a while now, and he directed the film himself. it's called The Lost City, and it's a brilliant film, both in its story and aesthetic value, but even the heavyweight pull of someone like him only managed to get the film out in limited release. he'll make his money back on dvd sales, if he makes any back at all.

now think about what you're asking, and relate it back to the story i just told you. we, the fans, can't make this happen directly in the way ya'll are suggesting, HOWEVER, like Andy Garcia - and Brian Henson before him - our sheer willpower, faith and PATIENCE might be able to allow TJHC to bring more Farscape to life.

do it the way we can make a measurable difference - buy dvds, promote dvds, give dvds as gifts, convert friends - hell, total strangers - to the wonders we've seen.

one of the interesting things going around the trades right now is that the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie got made as a result of toy sales - there was a resurrgence of interest, and the money men decided that it merited a film in an attempt to jump start the franchise. people call them dumb etc, but they're paying attention. the problem isn't that their stupid, the problem is that they aren't creative types, and that the realities are changing faster than they can cope and adjust for, so they're struggling to adapt the business models accordingly. it's all fluid though, and moving very fast. they have to be careful. but they're catching on....slowly but surely, the smarter ones are catching on.

[HawkZon]

I always write to the Showtime Network. I usually drop my subscription when my shows end. I've told SHO I'd be happy to pay twice their monthly subscription for new Farscape.

[Jakester1042]

I hear what you are saying Waltersgirl, and thanks for the intersting story too. Bizarre how things work out.

But anyway, I believe that there is a difference here in what I am saying.

In the past, the fans wanted to give money directly to TJHC, which is the production company. They can't do this because legally, a production company can not have more then fifteen investors or backers, although I am not certain on the actual number here.

However, I am not talking about sending my money directly to TJHC. I am talking about sending my money to an investment company whom I have place certain constrains and stipulation on, in the form of an escrow, that state that the investment company must invest in a certain and specific production company and in a certain and specific project of that company.

If I had a million dollars and wanted to invest it with TJHC for future Farscape, they would say “Thank you very much, but unfortunately, that isn't close to being enough. Do you have any rich friends?” I would be a sole individual approaching TJHC. If you gave me some money, say $50 and said, “Hey Jake, how about investing this also with TJHC” I would now have $1,000,050 to invest, which would still not be enough. The agreement between the two of us is a separate business transaction and has nothing at all to do with the production company. As long as there is only one sole entity going to the production company as the investor, then legally, that is all there is; one.

Now if 2,000,000 Farscape fans gave me $40 each and said [thunderous roar of 2 million people speaking at the same time] “Hey Jake ... we all want YOU to invest this in future Farscape”. Then after I got my hearing aids and went to TJHC, they would say “Jake ... you got $80,000,000!!!! Come on in. Can we get you anything? Coffee? Tea? A season of Farscape perhaps?”

However, it is highly unlikely that 2 Million Farscape fans would trust me with their $40. And besides, the only way TJHC would entertain talking to me, is if I had a significant chuck of change. So realistically, this isn’t ever going to happen. I might be able to talk a few farscape fans into giving me there money, but never enough to make a real difference on the scale of what TJHC would need. But then again I might be wrong.

I have read where people would be willing to give $70 or $100 for a new Farscape season, but generally, they want something in return, and for that amount, it is usually a full season of DVDs. But at the same time, I hear many people saying that they can’t even afford that.

I have 2 copies of the full 4 seasons on DVD; the original and the Starburst Edition. I have given a full set to both of my brothers (Starburst) and would have given sets to my sisters too, but neither wanted them because it is Sci Fi .... “Oooo yucky ... Sci Fi!!! I also have 2 copies of PKW. Think on that - that is an investment on my behalf of about $700, and I have been supporting only the Farscape that is in existence now. If you can’t pay the price for a full season in DVDs, then you really shouldn’t be expecting to ever see Farscape again.
I think the issue for me is really one of frustration. I am frustrated that there is nothing I can really, truly do, to influence the outcome on this.

I try, but it really all comes down to the fact that people are going to do what they feel like doing regardless of wether or not the reasoning is sound or logical. There is so much potential here with Farscape.

If I were an investor, and I had $45 Million to invest in the show, I would. Honestly, I really would. I would give it to Brian and say “Have at it” and then I would run to Comcast, Time Warner and any other cable company that had Pay-per-View Channels and say “I want to put Farscape on one of your Pay Channels”.

The basic rule of capitalism is that ... he that sell the most, usually makes the most in profit through shear numbers. The numbers are what count not the cost per unit.

People aren’t willing to pay $70 or $100 to bring back another season of Farscape. They look at it as too big a chuck of change to lose at one time. But they would certainly pay $1.99 to watch a single episode. They pay that for a beer. They pay it for a soda. They pay double or triple that every time they go to McDonald’s, Burger King or Wendy’s. What is a dollar and ninety-nine anymore? I’ll tell you what it is, it's $103,480,000 a year in revenues for Farscape on Pay-per-View.

Did farscape have a million viewers a week on Sci Fi? Sure did, many more than that. Most of the time, the combined total viewing for both time slots on Friday’s was around 4 Million. But just look at 1 million viewers to be conservative. 1,000,000 paying $1.99 per viewing, multiplied by 52 weeks in the year and you get $103 million and change. Now is that a conservative number? Oh you bet it is because there will be more viewers and you will be able to watch it as many times as you desire to watch it. Think of how many of us would have watched the show more than twice on Friday nights if we had been given the opportunity to do so?

I can imagine a die-hard Farscape fan in bankruptcy court one day.

Judge: "What do you mean you can't pay your bills?"

Fan: "Well, I had to watch Farscape on Pay-per-View."

Judge: "I completely understand that but ... did you have to watch episode 5.22 2573 times?"

Fan: "Well ... yeah I guess I did."


;)

There is a lot of potential here and maybe someone really should be looking into this.

[waltersgirl]

However, I am not talking about sending my money directly to TJHC. I am talking about sending my money to an investment company whom I have place certain constrains and stipulation on, in the form of an escrow, that state that the investment company must invest in a certain and specific production company and in a certain and specific project of that company.



i understand the distinction, the problem is that it doesn't matter. money IN to a production contractually equates to rights/profits out. it's that simple.

traditional investment companies provide returns to the individual...the financing of television and film is no different. you put in money, you get money back. there's no way they can part out the rights and profits to every tom, dick and jane that kicked in cash, so they just don't go there.

look at the extreme difficulty that shows not wholly owned by the networks that air them are having getting on iTunes for download. the rights are nearly impossible to work out.

[Jakester1042]

I did Not disbelieved you Waltersgirl, but I am a curious person by nature and I wish to get this clarified, so that I understood it completely. So, I asked an on-line legal service to clarify things for me. Actually I thought it was pretty cool and will have to use this service again. I thought I would post it here so anyone reading could receive further clarification also.

The question I posed was;

How many parties can invest in a single entertainment production?

Can these parties be made of individuals, companies or a mix of the 2?

If a company were to invest, the company would be considered a single entity, correct - i.e. the members or employees of the company would not be considered individual investors, correct/incorrect?

Company A is an investor

Company B is an entertainment production company

A wishes to invest in one of Bs productions. A, being a company, is considered and individual entity, or a single investor with B and would receive any royalties due it from the entertainment venue from B- correct/incorrect?

Company A, has members within it's structure that represent varying share holders or trusts within itself. When B, pays A royalties, it pays A, the company itself, not the individuals in the company, because A is the singular entity of all transactions between it and B - correct/incorrect?

It would be up to A, being a company and singular entity (in reference to it’s transactions with B), to split royalties between it's individual investors within it's own corporate structure - correct/incorrect? Meaning As investors under it’s corporate blanket, are individual to A only and not to B as well - correct/incorrect?


I think the answer, or explanation, as to what is permissible goes something like this:

First, the number of investors in a venture is not, at least usually, dependent upon the type of business it is engaging in, such as entertainment production, running a railroad, or making widgets. These businesses can have one or a million investors. So usually, the blanket coverage of a corporation is seen as a singular entity and that corporation can invest how it choices, and decide internally, how profit is to be divided.

There are, however, oftentimes limits on the number of investors based on the venture's tax elections or choice of fund-raising mechanism. For example, if the venture is a corporation that elects to be taxed as a partnership, i.e., an "S" corporation, it is limited to (I believe) 75 shareholders, all of whom must be individuals or certain trusts and none of whom may be nonresident aliens or other corporations.

Further, if the venture elects to raise capital from investors in reliance upon SEC Regulation D, Section 504, 505 or 506, there likely will be limits on the number of investors that can be solicited and/or the number of investors that can be signed up. The numbers 35 and 75 come to mind - I would have to look up the regs to give you details. Many entertainment productions are organized as limited partnerships and rely upon Reg. D to raise money, but corporations, LLCs and other entities can also use Reg. D to obtain exemption from registering their securities.

Finally, when a corporation invests, it is considered a single investor, irrespective of the number of shareholders it may have. I believe, however, that if the corporate entity were a sham and existed only to get around a number-of-investors limitation, a court or regulatory agency could bust the scheme. A married couple holding securities in both names is usually treated as a single investor, e.g., for counting the number of shareholders in an S corporation.


So the answer would be that a corporation used, to get around the investor limits, would be considered a sham. Seeing how this is set up and regulated, I would beleive that even gifts, to get around the limitation, would also be considerd a sham.

I guess it is back to playing the lottery.

[JonandWinona]

Well if anything comes up with this, how ever and which ever way, I am willing to shell out some $$ to help in Farscape.

[monkee04]

Well if anything comes up with this, how ever and which ever way, I am willing to shell out some $$ to help in Farscape.

i second that.

[Ghil]

so basicaly, our only hope is that Sony does something? -_-'

[waltersgirl]

Sony snatching up the lapsed dvd rights to Farscape should be recognized for what it is....an indication that the show is still perceived as financially viable.

AGAIN, you guys want to help Farscape? keep pimping it, one fan at a time. keep converting new viewers who will want to go out and vote with their wallets for Farscape's future.

maybe that advice seems like it isn't enough, but it is. money talks, but you have to wield that talk in the right way. you want to shell out cash for Farscape? that's the way to do it.

[BillFrugge]

Sales of DVDs led to 'Family Guy' and 'Futurama' coming back. By all means, buy the dvds, and hawk them to people... ;)

[wackyduck]

Sales of DVD great idea ... watch em. Lend em to friends who don't know about Farscape yet. Talk to everyone about Farscape. I carry my laptop with Farscape DVD's and trailers ... just to show people when they say they have never heard of it. Farscape is one of the best (if not THE best) Sci-Fi series of all time (sorry trek ... you lost me ... Scape better). After a few vids or trailers ... they are hooked too ...

[mars citizen]

I'm kinda new to FarScape, so can someone please explain me what is this Starburst edition thing and what is the difference between Starburst and a regular Farscape DVD?

[Nicola]

ADV issued two different sets of Farscape DVDs. The original DVDs (very expensive, bulky and limited extras) and the Starburst Editions.

The Starburst Editions are more compact, many more extras, 14 more commentaries, and much cheaper.

So if you are thinking of buying Farscape DVDs for yourself (or recommending them to your library for purchase *nudge* *nudge*) the Starburst Editions are the way to go. :)

[mars citizen]

Thanks Nicola!
I checked all the major DVD stores in Jerusalem and no one seems to have any Farscape...
I left the biggest store for last so that I don't lose hope...gonna check it out tomorow.

By the way, does anyone knows if there are Farscape tshirts for sale?

[stlscape]

By the way, does anyone knows if there are Farscape tshirts for sale?

Some are available at Creation's website (Creation Entertainment is the licensed distributor of FS items - www.creationent.com), and then there are a lot of items at www.cafepress.com. (You'll need to search for "Farscape" there.)

[Nicola]

Thanks Nicola!

By the way, does anyone knows if there are Farscape tshirts for sale?

There are also these (http://farscapecanada.com/merch.shtml#tshirt) ones. :)