The Next Star Trek Movie: SOS

[Jen10122]

Hi all,

This is the reason I don't like Star Trek anymore. Here is a link to a review of the next film http://blogcritics.org/archives/2007...comment-569468. They really diss the movie and give a lot of good remarks about StarTrek: TNG.

[TalynLives]

Starting over from the ground up is what caused so much trouble for Voyager, and what doomed Enterprise to failure before it began.

There was nothing wrong with the premises of either of those shows imo, just that the writing was way below par. Voyager promised to be a gritty account of a Starfleet crew fighting for survival on the frontiers of space far away from the comfortable world of TNG. What actually happened was it had a few awesome episodes where it stuck firmly to its premise but then the Big Reset Switch was pressed at the end of each episode and everything was rosy again next episode. (One comment regarding the show is that the ship looks perfect in every episode).

As for Enterprise, the premise of going back to the roots of the Federation was again good but they made the mistake of getting people who hated the franchise to write it. The result was tired formulaic stories that spat in the face of the shows history. That all changed when Manny Coto was brought in for the 4th season but by then it was a case of "too little, too late" and the show was cancelled.

[waltersgirl]

how can there be a review of the next film when it's not even out of pre-production yet? whiney fanboy drivel. at least have the maturity to wait and bitch about the script when it's leaked. you know, like when there may actually be something to criticize?

i will NEVER understand people getting all nutted up about dren they haven't even seen yet, ESPECIALLY when they haven't seen it because it hasn't been filmed yet.

and yes to everything TL said.

[ctheokas]

It seems like the writer is angry that they are going to go for the lowest common denominator and eschew what he believes made Trek great in the first place. Which is all well and good.

And while I agree that it's a fanboy rant, I think by the time we see a script (if one is ever leaked), then it will probably be too late to register indignation. That all depends on which draft is leaked, but still. I think it'll have to be leaked very soon if any complaint is to be registered.

Nevertheless, I'm going to play cynic here, and write that I don't think it'll matter no matter when the rants come out.

[waltersgirl]

i'm pretty sure i have no idea what you just said. try again please? i don't want to comment if i'm misunderstanding you.

[ctheokas]

What I mean is I don't think it matters when this guy bitches about Star Trek (the next movie), nor do I think it matters what he bitches about, simply because it won't have any effect on the outcome. Trek has never struck me as being as fan-friendly as Farscape or some of the smaller shows. That's all.

[waltersgirl]

Originally Posted by ctheokas

What I mean is I don't think it matters when this guy bitches about Star Trek (the next movie), nor do I think it matters what he bitches about, simply because it won't have any effect on the outcome. Trek has never struck me as being as fan-friendly as Farscape or some of the smaller shows. That's all.

it shouldn't have any effect on the outcome, though. the fans aren't writing it. a writer is. if the fans want to see Star Trek go a certain way, then they should write it themselves and pitch it to an agent, or shutthehellup about it. writers should write in a bubble to please themselves, because it is utterly impossible to cater to the fans. that just makes for crap writing. and you [the fans] can't make an informed judgement about a script that you personally haven't read in its entirety.

and something else that fans don't take into consideration when bitching about stuff they haven't seen yet, but have only heard about...there's an enormous difference between what's on paper and how it translates to film. i didn't fully understand that until i had 4 or 5 film projects under my belt. i'd read a script and go, 'yeah, that's not bad', but still be kinda nitpicky about dialogue and rhythm....and then it would get into the hands of some good actors and i would be blown.away. by how elevated the material became.

the reverse is also true. there can be a killer script and fabulous actors and the movie dies in the editing room for some reason.

the process is too collaborative in its totality to fixate about early on, when the fixators don't have all the info. that's what i mean by fanboy whining. there's plenty of stuff that sounds dodgy in its theory but turns out to be brilliant in its execution.

[ctheokas]

Oh, I agree with you for the most part. What's on the page vs. what goes up on the screen is always an issue. One only has to read The Godfather and then see the movie to see that point illustrated. But the issue here isn't whether or not we can/should complain. Even with no information, we can complain all we want. Who cares, right?

But even with the limited information we've received, if it's true, and if it's goign to be effective (and in this case, because Trek is such a huge franchise, I don't think it's going to be), you gotta get in early. But on that point, I don't really care that much.

The issue for me is the idea of a reboot at all. In a way, I feel it's part of the remake trend, and I'm tired of that as a consumer of media. I don't mind new Trek, but I don't think a reboot is the way to go. As a not-much-of-a-fan, I would rather see something new. Roddenberry jumped ahead 100 or so years in the timeline and gave us TNG. Why not just ahead another few hundred years and give us the fall of the federation or something? It can be more violent and sexy, and you've still got what could be a compelling story.

[waltersgirl]

Originally Posted by ctheokas

But the issue here isn't whether or not we can/should complain. Even with no information, we can complain all we want. Who cares, right?

it's exactly the issue, imho.

But even with the limited information we've received, if it's true, and if it's goign to be effective (and in this case, because Trek is such a huge franchise, I don't think it's going to be), you gotta get in early. But on that point, I don't really care that much.

you gotta get what in early? the bitching?

The issue for me is the idea of a reboot at all. In a way, I feel it's part of the remake trend, and I'm tired of that as a consumer of media. I don't mind new Trek, but I don't think a reboot is the way to go. As a not-much-of-a-fan, I would rather see something new. Roddenberry jumped ahead 100 or so years in the timeline and gave us TNG. Why not just ahead another few hundred years and give us the fall of the federation or something? It can be more violent and sexy, and you've still got what could be a compelling story.

Batman Begins.

[ctheokas]

Originally Posted by waltersgirl

it's exactly the issue, imho.

If you think about it, most of these sites, this one included, are basically for people to talk about - including complain about - shows and movies. And as fans, we're pretty much out of the loop for the most part. So saying we can't complain because we don't know anything means we can't say anything at all.

Originally Posted by waltersgirl

you gotta get what in early? the bitching?

If you're going to have any chance of changing anything, then yes, you're going to have to start early. IN the case of Trek, though, I don't think it's going to matter. Which is my point in this specific case. Trek as a franchise, I think, is too big for any fanboy complaint to have much of an effect.

Originally Posted by waltersgirl

Batman Begins.

What about Batman Begins?

Maybe I didn't make it clear before, but I think there's a glut of remakes. And for me, I get turned off by remakes, no matter how good they are. I know that hollywood and producers do it because they make money, so I blame audiences as much as them, but still. It's beginning to strike me as a lack of a creative force in the industry.

[waltersgirl]

If you think about it, most of these sites, this one included, are basically for people to talk about - including complain about - shows and movies. And as fans, we're pretty much out of the loop for the most part. So saying we can't complain because we don't know anything means we can't say anything at all.

no one said "can't"; it's not what i said, nor is it what i meant, but go ahead and take it the wrong way. you're [collectively] free to bitch and complain all you want about whatever you want. it just makes no sense to me personally, because you [collectively] have no idea of what's actually going on. so, to me, getting all het up about something i don't know anything about is an enormous waste of my personal time and energy. i get that mileage varies. i just think it's silly.

If you're going to have any chance of changing anything, then yes, you're going to have to start early. IN the case of Trek, though, I don't think it's going to matter. Which is my point in this specific case. Trek as a franchise, I think, is too big for any fanboy complaint to have much of an effect.

and again, my point is that we should not be able to change anything. we're not writing the scripts.

What about Batman Begins?

it took the source material seriously and made a brilliant film.

Maybe I didn't make it clear before, but I think there's a glut of remakes. And for me, I get turned off by remakes, no matter how good they are. I know that hollywood and producers do it because they make money, so I blame audiences as much as them, but still. It's beginning to strike me as a lack of a creative force in the industry.

you clearly have strong personal feelings about them, which is totally okay, i just happen to disagree.

if we followed your reasoning, the world of theater would have nothing to do. audiences would be denied the chance to experience Olivier's Hamlet versus Brannagh's Hamlet versus Gielgud's Hamlet versus Jacoby's Hamlet, because really, they're all just unimaginative remakes.

the original Star Trek was groundbreaking television, and i personally would love to see it in the hands of people who are looking at it with fresh eyes and treating it with the respect it deserves. if the film gets even half the A-list cast its rumored to be after, there's high potential for a really brilliant film. *that's* what matters to me. Batman Begins was a brilliant film in a way that had nothing to do with it being part of the franchise - it was just bloody good storytelling. Casino Royale is another - superb film all on its own. they cared about storytelling - *that's* why those films are making millions.

[ctheokas]

Originally Posted by waltersgirl

and again, my point is that we should not be able to change anything. we're not writing the scripts.

Then perhaps we shouldn't have joined up at this site, because we did change something. We raised our collective voice and got a miniseries.

Originally Posted by waltersgirl

it took the source material seriously and made a brilliant film.

you clearly have strong personal feelings about them, which is totally okay, i just happen to disagree.

While I certain thing BB was better than the Schumacher films, again, my issue isn't with the fact that it was a remake per se, but that there's a glut of them. For the last, what 15 years or so, it's been ramping up, until now they're starting to remake (or reimagine) films from the 80s. Most of the fresh movies and ideas are coming out from overseas, and it's just sad that we aren't at that forefront of that.

Originally Posted by waltersgirl

if we followed your reasoning, the world of theater would have nothing to do. audiences would be denied the chance to experience Olivier's Hamlet versus Brannagh's Hamlet versus Gielgud's Hamlet versus Jacoby's Hamlet, because really, they're all just unimaginative remakes.

Yeah, maybe we'd have room for something new. There's nothing wrong with remaking something, but it just seems like that's all there is anymore.

Originally Posted by waltersgirl

the original Star Trek was groundbreaking television, and i personally would love to see it in the hands of people who are looking at it with fresh eyes and treating it with the respect it deserves. if the film gets even half the A-list cast its rumored to be after, there's high potential for a really brilliant film. *that's* what matters to me. Batman Begins was a brilliant film in a way that had nothing to do with it being part of the franchise - it was just bloody good storytelling. Casino Royale is another - superb film all on its own. they cared about storytelling - *that's* why those films are making millions.

Actually, the only reason they're making so much money is because we don't have much choice when we go to the movies. We get TMNT, and the Hills Have Eyes 2, and Disturbia. Great.

BB was decent storytelling, mainly because it took the source more seriously than Schumacher. But was it brilliant? Not really. I think our DNA is encoded with the Batmas origin story. We don't need to see it again. And if I remember correctly, Warner Bros. was disappointed with the opening weekend of BB (though how making 70 million is a disappointment, I'll never know).

[Nicola]

I tend to agree. I am only familiar with the writer's work on MI3 and I have to say that I didn't think that MI3 was worth my time or money. The press release issued about this movie said that this "reimagining" of Star Trek will have (and I quote) "more action in this movie than any Trek that's preceded it." More action like MI3 action? They lost me there. There are better films to spend my money on then to watch "more action".

My personal belief, as an experienced theatrical director and writer, is that less is more and if you want to make an impact that grabs the audience then you need to be frugal with explosions and "action".

Now I understand that I haven't seen the final product yet and therefore am basing my assessment on my previous experience with the writers and studio. Which are actually pretty good ways to assess the kind of movies I wish to spend my time and money on.

I could be wrong and no doubt if I am, I will learn about it in the fullness of time. But currently, based on what I know of the writers and what I know of the studio, I am comfortable with my disinterest in what this collaboration will produce.

I have a brain, I know how to use it, I have experience both as creator and audience member and my opinion is as worthy as anyone else's.

[waltersgirl]

Then perhaps we shouldn't have joined up at this site, because we did change something. We raised our collective voice and got a miniseries.

those aren't remotely the same, and you very well know that.

I have a brain, I know how to use it, I have experience both as creator and audience member and my opinion is as worthy as anyone else's.

did someone try to imply that it wasn't?

[ctheokas]

Originally Posted by waltersgirl

those aren't remotely the same, and you very well know that.

They're in the same ballpark at the very least. This is the complaint brought to action. We complained that Farscape was cancelled. Instead of resting on our collective asses, we got together and changed things.